Poorly placed Blu ray musicals chapter stops (1 Viewer)

[AnthonyClarke]

I've mentioned this in another thread, but I'm totally perplexed at why studios as good at their job as Warners fail miserably when it comes to giving us what most of us want in our favourite musicals .... direct chapter access to our favourite numbers!

The latest 'Musicals' collection from Warners, giving us 'The Band Wagon', 'Calamity Jane', 'Kiss Me Kate' and a repeat serve of 'Singin' in the Rain' is the latest in this carelessly authored tendency .. the chapter points are for the most part useless and there isn't even a proper guide in the chapter listing!

At least my Oppo has a reasonably useful 'go to' function which lets you manually enter the time you want to advance the movie to. But that's very tedious compared to a simple numerical chapter-skip ... .and difficult in a darkened projection room!

But for what it's worth, here's a list I've compiled of my favourite cue positions for Calamity and Jane and Kiss Me Kate .. I haven't got around to doing it yet for The Band Wagon. Perhaps this will help those who've been as frustrated as I am by this sloppy authoring....


Calamity Jane

1. The Deadwood Stage (film title)
2. 00:22:00 I Can Do Without You
3. 00:38:58 The Windy City
4. 00:54:15 Higher than a Hawk
5. 00:59:40 A Woman’s Touch
6. 01:13:00 Black Hills of Dakota
7. 01:22:50 :Tis Katy I’m Planning to Marry
8. 01:28:59 03 or 01:29:54 Secret Heart
9. 01:35:49 or 01:37:40 Finale

The different timings for the last two are to give the choice of having some scene-setting action.



Kiss Me Kate

1. 00:03:47 So In Love
2. 00:07:57 Too Darn Hot
3. 0 0:18:25 Why Can’t You Behave
4. 00:29:50 Wunderbar
5. 00:33:30 So In Love
6. 00:37:04 We Open in Venice
7. 00:42:06 Tom Dick or Harry
8. 00:47:19 Wive it Wealthily
9. 01:19:40 Where is the Life
10. 01:30:39 Always True to You
11. 01:37:00 Brush Up Your Shakespeare
12. 01:42:00 From This Moment On

 

[Mark-P]

I certainly understand your frustration, though for me it's totally a non-issue because I don't ever use chapter stops anyway. I will hazard a guess as to the why, which is that Warner has to cut corners somewhere. They use all their resources to give us the best picture and sound quality, and then opt for the simplest authoring by saving the man hours it would take to design a menu with appropriate chapters, or any fancy interactivity. I'd much rather they skimp on menus and packaging rather than the actual movie content.

 

[AnthonyClarke]

But the frustrating thing is that they DO spend money on chapter-authoring. It's just that they use totally inappropriate chapter-points. Using a correct time-code in the chaptering would add nothing to the cost .. apart from maybe half an hour's time by someone to jot down the correct placement points!

 

[classicmovieguy]

It's an unfortunate new trend. I remember Warners used to put lots of thought into the designs of chapter menus on the original DVDs.

 

[david hare]

Certainly in the case of Band Wagon they simply ported over the flags from the original encode for the 2005 DVD. (And that's another QC problem for me, outside the scope of Your excellent thread.)


Thanks for the KMK especially Anthony. It's the one I know least well and most need a road map for.

 

[AnthonyClarke]

Pleased to help, David ..

I find I left out 'I Hate Men' so if I get time, I;ll post the cue for that too ...

There may be another one or two cuews missing but I got all the ones I wanted!

 

[bujaki]

I want to get to "Dancing in the Dark" without having to fish for it!

 

[Edward Weinman]

...it's a heart breaker...all those great legendary numbers which we can't access because of the chapter stops mess..."The Band Wagon" especially pains me because I love and have waited for it on blu-ray for such a long time.

 

[David_B_K]

Sometimes I author DVDs of things I record from laserdisc or my DVR with software on my PC. If I feel like spending time, I will select appropriate chapters and thumbnails. If I'm lazy or in a hurry, I just tell the software to put in 10 or 12 chapters and it will space them evenly. I know Warner does chapters this way for their Archive DVDs. It is starting to look like this is the approach that are taking with their best Blu-Rays. It reduces chapters to nothing more that a quick advance through the movie and fails to take advantage of the technology.

Still a small matter in the scheme of things, I guess.

 

[Frank Bidart]

I share Anthony's frustration. It seems to me incomprehensible that chapter stops are not keyed to musical numbers. How often do viewers return to "scenes" in a musical, rather than numbers? Does George Feltenstein really often not just want to see "Dancing in the Dark" or "Triplets"? The cues are much better, at least sometimes, on iTunes. If you buy "The Band Wagon" there (though the last time I checked it was only available in low definition) there's a nice separate cue that takes you to "Triplets." It's as if the people who do the chapter stops on the discs have never watched the film for pleasure. Frank Bidart

 

[Robin9]

I want to get to "Dancing in the Dark" without having to fish for it!

Easy! Chapter 7.

 

[GlennF]

Yes, this drives me a little nuts. They put 13 chapter stops on the blu of BANDWAGON, but they have no relation to the musical numbers. The DVD had 29 chapter stops! If they had just ported these over, or at least used the ones that relate to the musical numbers, it would have been better.


Some musical films allow you to go directly from song to song, as they know that is most likely what people will watch again and again. Some movies, like OKLAHOMA and SOUTH PACIFIC, give you the option to go directly from song to song on the extras menu. If they have to reduce the number of stops, at least put them where they make some sense. Sometimes it is in the middle of a scene!

 

[bujaki]

Easy! Chapter 7.

Thanks. But not at the beginning of chapter 7. I still have to fast forward to get to the dance number.

 

[JoeDoakes]

I've mentioned this in another thread, but I'm totally perplexed at why studios as good at their job as Warners fail miserably when it comes to giving us what most of us want in our favourite musicals .... direct chapter access to our favourite numbers!

The latest 'Musicals' collection from Warners, giving us 'The Band Wagon', 'Calamity Jane', 'Kiss Me Kate' and a repeat serve of 'Singin' in the Rain' is the latest in this carelessly authored tendency .. the chapter points are for the most part useless and there isn't even a proper guide in the chapter listing!

At least my Oppo has a reasonably useful 'go to' function which lets you manually enter the time you want to advance the movie to. But that's very tedious compared to a simple numerical chapter-skip ... .and difficult in a darkened projection room!

But for what it's worth, here's a list I've compiled of my favourite cue positions for Calamity and Jane and Kiss Me Kate .. I haven't got around to doing it yet for The Band Wagon. Perhaps this will help those who've been as frustrated as I am by this sloppy authoring....


Calamity Jane

1. The Deadwood Stage (film title)
2. 00:22:00 I Can Do Without You
3. 00:38:58 The Windy City
4. 00:54:15 Higher than a Hawk
5. 00:59:40 A Woman’s Touch
6. 01:13:00 Black Hills of Dakota
7. 01:22:50 :Tis Katy I’m Planning to Marry
8. 01:28:59 03 or 01:29:54 Secret Heart
9. 01:35:49 or 01:37:40 Finale

The different timings for the last two are to give the choice of having some scene-setting action.



Kiss Me Kate

1. 00:03:47 So In Love
2. 00:07:57 Too Darn Hot
3. 0 0:18:25 Why Can’t You Behave
4. 00:29:50 Wunderbar
5. 00:33:30 So In Love
6. 00:37:04 We Open in Venice
7. 00:42:06 Tom Dick or Harry
8. 00:47:19 Wive it Wealthily
9. 01:19:40 Where is the Life
10. 01:30:39 Always True to You
11. 01:37:00 Brush Up Your Shakespeare
12. 01:42:00 From This Moment On

So were the chapter stops better on the DVD? I wonder if it would have been difficult to just recreate them? Generally, you are correct that with musicals especially, well placed chapter stops are very helpful if you just want to view certain numbers.

 

[Robin9]

Thanks. But not at the beginning of chapter 7. I still have to fast forward to get to the dance number.

You amaze me. Those few seconds of Fred and Cyd strolling through the park are essential for a full appreciation of the dance that follows. The change from walking to dancing is perhaps the smoothest segue in any musical. I wouldn't dream of watching the Dancing In The Dark number without the stroll through the park preamble.

 

[Edward Weinman]

...now that "42nd Street" is being prepared for release, will Warner Bros. continue this inane lack of chapter stops for the musical numbers? They have already ruined "Kiss Me Kate" and "The Band Wagon" both of which, on the regular DVDs had all the stops for each and every musical number...


...it's a crying shame that they would do this on two of MGM's great 1953 musicals...

 

[Jim*Tod]

I had thought my Panasonic blu ray player had some kind of book mark feature which would allow me to set my own stops, but I could not get it to work on either KISS ME KATE or BANDWAGON. Is this bookmark function only available when the disc is coded to allow it? I know I have seen it on many other blu ray discs.

 

[bujaki]

You amaze me. Those few seconds of Fred and Cyd strolling through the park are essential for a full appreciation of the dance that follows. The change from walking to dancing is perhaps the smoothest segue in any musical. I wouldn't dream of watching the Dancing In The Dark number without the stroll through the park preamble.

I totally agree with you. Just like the ending as they approach the carriage and their dancing turns into a graceful stroll. This is really my favorite Astaire number on a par with Let's Face the Music and Dance.

 

[Edward Weinman]

I totally agree with you. Just like the ending as they approach the carriage and their dancing turns into a graceful stroll. This is really my favorite Astaire number on a par with Let's Face the Music and Dance.

...and don't forget that they are trying to see if they are compatable; the coriography was especially done to begin with a timid dance only to blossom to the great ending and also seeing that Fred is falling in love with Cyd...

 

[AnthonyClarke]

I had thought my Panasonic blu ray player had some kind of book mark feature which would allow me to set my own stops, but I could not get it to work on either KISS ME KATE or BANDWAGON. Is this bookmark function only available when the disc is coded to allow it? I know I have seen it on many other blu ray discs.

I checked the Bookmark function in my Oppo instruction booklet .... and it says your bookmarks are automatically cleared when the disc is removed.

So they appear to be no help at all!

The only solution seems to be to make your own cue-sheet which you file with the disc as I have,, and then use the 'go-to' function.

By the way .. I find I left off 'Hay-Ride' from 'Band Wagon' as well as 'I Hate Men' from KmK in the lists I provided .... there may be others missing which others here might like to supply........