Phantom Menace DVD (1 Viewer)

[Dave H]

The thing that bothered me about the DD mix of TPM was the lightsaber duel in the end. My VHS copy sounded better, and that just shouldn't happen.

You're kidding, right?
I have the VHS and I find there is absolutely NO comparision between it and the DVD. The lightsaber duel on DVD sounds phenomenal. I would definitely check your set-up to make sure everything is set to where it should be.

 

[rutger_s]

Jeff,

You do know that when The Phantom Menace was released to theaters, the only 6.1 channel surround sound option was Dolby Digital THX EX. dts ES would be introduced a few weeks later.

Meaning that The Phantom Menace was the first title released in the Dolby Digital THX EX format. But it did not have a dts ES soundtrack.

So in this case, the Dolby Digital EX English soundtrack on the DVD is better then having a dts English soundtrack.

 

[Josh_Hill]

Ahh...I totally forgot that DTS ES was not available when TPM came out. Good point Rutger.

 

[Robert_J]

The thing that bothered me about the DD mix of TPM was the lightsaber duel in the end. My VHS copy sounded better, and that just shouldn't happen.

Jeff, in another thread you said you liked the sound of Bose speakers. Like other posters have suggested, maybe your system needs to be calibrated. Radio Shack has their SPL meter on sale. The store at Riverdale and Shelby in Memphis has one left for $29.95 (I both one yesterday).

-Robert

 

[Ryan_TD]

The bottom line is the bit rate is 448 as opposed to dts 754. I don't care what any of you guys say but there would be a MAJOR difference. If you were to compare the DD to dts on, say, 'Bowfinger' or 'Meet The Parents', you're not really going to hear a difference. But do the same comparison with 'Gladiator' or 'Saving Private Ryan' and the difference is night and day. Sure the DD sounds great on both, but it's SO different in dts.
Someone said that the only thing going for dts is it makes it LOUDER...I disagree. There's just more to it. Take 'Seven' for example. The dts outshines the DD in the QUIETER scenes using more things like ambience and atmosphere. I will admit though that it helps when a movies soundtrack gets re-mixed for home theater(and done right!)
I guarantee that this is only the first of quite a few versions of The Phantom Menace, and it WILL be released sometime in the future with a dts 6.1 ES mix.
George Lucas may be getting old, but he's still smart and one hell of a businessman.
In the meantime though, I'll enjoy my dvd of The Phantom Menace until the next one comes out

 

[Michael Reuben]

But do the same comparison with 'Gladiator' or 'Saving Private Ryan' and the difference is night and day.

It's been pretty well established that those films used different mixes for their DD and DTS tracks. That's why they sound different. In situations where the same mix is used, the differences are much subtler (if they even exist). Try Interview with the Vampire or Twister -- both of which feature DTS at the full 1509kp/ps bitrate, BTW. For nearly four times the digital real estate occupied, these isn't much difference to be heard in the DTS tracks.

M.

 

[Josh_Hill]

Really, it doesnt matter what you use. DD or DTS, thats not what matters. Its the sound mix, and the sound mix on TPM is gonna sound good on anything.

 

[Dan Brecher]

But do the same comparison with 'Gladiator' or 'Saving Private Ryan' and the difference is night and day. Sure the DD sounds great on both, but it's SO different in dts.

Not great examples. As Michael has said, the DTS tracks on both titles you mention are struck from alternate source material in comparison to the DD tracks of the same movies. Same goes for Se7en too I believe.

Dan

 

[Neil Joseph]

You only bought the VHS once? I think I bought 3 times

 

[Feng]

If I guess correctly, I think Jeff doesn't have a Dolby Digital 5.1 setup. He only has a stereo system without a subwoofer. So he is listening to a down-mixed DD 5.1 track. Yes, it will sound worse than VHS in some cases. Jeff, am I right?

 

[rutger_s]

If that's case then he should be listening the Dolby 2.0 Surround option on the DVD. This way, the 5.1 channel sound option won't have to be downmixed.

 

[Nick_Scott]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But do the same comparison with 'Gladiator' or 'Saving Private Ryan' and the difference is night and day. Sure the DD sounds great on both, but it's SO different in dts.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hmmm... Wait a second. Both 'Gladiator' and 'Saving Private Ryan' were both done by Dreamworks. Speilberg owns part of Dreamworks, and part of DTS. Come to think of it, nearly all of the Dreamworks DVDs have 'superior' DTS soundtracks.

Oh No!! Now both Speilberg AND Lucas both are involed in a conspiracy.

-JUST KIDDING- Anyway, hopefully with HD-DVD we will have MLP audio tracks... though, they will probobly still be wasting space with DD/DTS 5.1/2.0 tracks for backward compatability.

 

[Adam Barratt]

The bottom line is the bit rate is 448 as opposed to dts 754. I don't care what any of you guys say but there would be a MAJOR difference. If you were to compare the DD to dts on, say, 'Bowfinger' or 'Meet The Parents', you're not really going to hear a difference. But do the same comparison with 'Gladiator' or 'Saving Private Ryan' and the difference is night and day. Sure the DD sounds great on both, but it's SO different in dts.

Someone said that the only thing going for dts is it makes it LOUDER...I disagree. There's just more to it. Take 'Seven' for example. The dts outshines the DD in the QUIETER scenes using more things like ambience and atmosphere. I will admit though that it helps when a movies soundtrack gets re-mixed for home theater(and done right!)

It certainly isn't the bottom line, and is in fact a gross oversimplification. The whole bits vs. bits argument is pointless when comparing different compression systems, even when all things are equal, as has been pointed out by many others here. If bit-rates were the only differences between DTS and Dolby Digital soundtracks, then all DTS and Dolby Digital soundtracks would sound precisely n% better or worse than their Dolby Digital/DTS equivalents, which they clearly don't. This inconsistency suggests something else is causing such disparate audible differences.

In the case of Gladiator and Saving Private Ryan, their DTS soundtracks were sourced from different material than their Dolby Digital equivalents. The same is true of Seven. Since the DTS and Dolby Digital versions of these soundtracks aren't reproducing the same material, any comparison of the different soundtracks that relies on differences in bit-rate is completely worthless.

When reproducing the same material, such as Interview With The Vampire, Lethal Weapon 1-3 or Twister and volume differences are compensated for, these difference completely evaporate. As these discs all use 1509kbps DTS, using your bit-rate argument, all should sound considerably better in DTS. They should, in fact, exhibit differences twice as large as those between the DTS and Dolby Digital soundtracks of Gladiator and Saving Private Ryan. They don't.

Adam

 

[Gruson]

THE LASERDISC's SOUNDTRACK OWNZ THE DVD's!!!!!!

THX really screwed up this DVD release...the EE is horrible too.

 

[Jeffrey Forner]

THE LASERDISC's SOUNDTRACK OWNZ THE DVD's!!!!!!
THX really screwed up this DVD release...the EE is horrible too.

Great. What does that have to do with this discussion? We're talking about the sound quality of the DVD, not the LD. We're also not talking about the apparent edge enhancement on the film. We're talking about Jeff's disappointment with the lack of a DTS track on The Phantom Menace.
Jeff, please supply us with some more details on your system. What kind of speakers do you own? Are you using a a subwoofer? What kind of receiver do you have? Are you sure you're getting 5.1 digital sound from your system? Have you calibrated your speakers using a calibration DVD or a Radio Shack Sound Pressure Level (SPL) meter?
All of these factors can have a tremendous impact on the overall quality of sound. When you say that one of the best 5.1 mixes ever recorded sounds worse than a VHS tape, either you're a troll or something's up and you don't know it. I sincerely hope it's the latter.

 

[greg_t]

I have the widescreen VHS and it is not close to the DVd in terms of sound quality. I always felt the surrounds were way too low on the vhs and the video quality is terrible, even for vhs. However, to me, it seems as if the sound on the vhs was mixed at the same overall level. I think what really hurts the dvd is the fact that the dialouge and music is recorded so low, then the surrounds and bass hit hard. I have to agree with a previous poster that thx did not do a great job on the dvd. don't get me wrong, I think it's a great soundtrack and has loads of bass and surround usage, but why is it so low? And what's with all the EE? I can't wait to get the laser to compare it to.

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

The bottom line is the bit rate is 448 as opposed to dts 754.

I always find this to be an interesting addition to a discussion, as it really demonstrates how little people understand the ideas about digital audio, audio compression and codec theory.

I would remind Mr. Ryan TD, and others reading this, that we have no idea what information is in that bitstream. The bitstreams are not 100% audio information- and each codec has a varying percentage of its bandwidth dedicated to actual audio.

Have you ever wondered how DTS could create a "discrete" 6.1 encoding scheme that is 100% backward compatible with their older decoders? Any amount of common sense would cause yout to ask how they could do that- since a 6.1 digital stream is bound to be a different data format: how did the older decoders know how to react?

Well kids, a fair amount of that touted DTS bandwidth is system data- having little to do with actual "audio" content. Dolby builds much of the decoding info into the DECODERS, the hardware-- while DTS puts a fair portion of system information into the data stream, making 6.1 discrete backwards compatible...

And of course, it is obvious that the effeciency of the codec would also play a very large role in that numbers equation. I have a 1974 Dodge that gets about 2 miles to the gallon- so it must be fast, right? Hardly.

I could write a codec that was 1500kpbs, and it could sound much worse than either DTS or DD. The bits wouldn't be (and are not) the key- but rather the quality of the psychoacoustic science behind its development is what dictates the quality of a codec.

Playing the numbers game is pointless, and simply not very reliable.

The only real thing spouting such misinformation does is allows readers like myself to take note of doesn't have a large deal of knowledge when it come to digital signal processing or encoding. So, in those terms, it could be considered a "valuable arguement".

-V

 

[Joe6pack99]

Well there MUST be something wrong with his setup as this is one of the best dvds out there audio-wise.....however pound for pound my LD does stomp it(had to say it lol)

 

[Ryan_TD]

well this should clear up everything and hopefully make somewhat more sense...

wouldn't it be great if oneday george lucas released a RE-SOURCED, RE-MIXED dts soundtrack for The Phantom Menace(and eventually all Star Wars films)

i know, i know and don't tell me george is against dts(i already know that) so lets just hope his buddy steven spielberg invites him over his house and shows george how incredible dts really is...

i guess the reason i'm flying the dts flag so much is because for an action movie, all of my dts dvds rock. true, most of these have had soundtracks which have been re-sourced or specially re-recorded for dvd(thanks-numerous people) but these particular ones all sound better than The Phantom Menace and even The Matrix. Yep, I said it. EVEN THE MATRIX. Put U-571 dts next to The Matrix.

Do I hear Morpheus cringing to the sound of a depth charge?

Put X-Files(The Movie) dts next to The Phantom Menace....

ok, ok maybe the Phantom Menace wins that one but take away the Pod Race from it and compared to the rest of it the

X-files dts kills it (which, ironically enough, this sunday march 10th there will be a brand new Attack Of The Clones trailer right before the X-files tv show)

until i hear a better DD track over dts for the same movie(with the exception of that jurrasic park mess) i'm going to keep on choosing the dts track when i have the option

(even when watching Twister, Interview With The Vampire, or the Lethal Weapon Director's Cuts)

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

Put U-571 dts next to The Matrix.

Well, remember to lower your sub by 4db when watching U571, as the DTS LFE is 4db too high.

Whoops.

Betcha it sounds "better" though. More is better.

-Vince