Phantom Menace dvd EE observation (1 Viewer)

[Shayne Lebrun]

The expected November release of Episode II will likely be a digital-to-digital transfer of a much better movie, and this whole issue will be forgotten.

Nah, it just means that five minutes after the first showing, somebody will be in the lobby, with laptop and cell phone, posting "EE in DLP Episode 2!!!!!" to the good old HTF Movies area.

Still waiting to see what happens with that TPM workshop, slated to happen eventually.

 

[David Forbes]

Whatever happened to THX's "open house" or whatever the hell it was, where they wanted to get together with concerned videophiles to talk about the edge enhancement on TPM (which they denied eixsted)? Did that ever occur?

 

[RobertR]

it is in fact, very good in every other fashion.

Have people said it's NOT very good apart from the EE? I haven't seen that.

 

[Artur Meinild]

Part of the fuss is that this was heralded as another "THX shining star" DVD that was supposed to be reference in quality.

Exactly. A lot of DVD's have worse EE than this disc, but this is Star Wars for god's sake!!! THX and Lucas's baby, and they can't get it right... I'm still waiting to hear the results of the "workshop" they were going to make - or maybe they can't even get that done...
Whoever says that the EE isn't as bad on this disc should take a look at Bjoern's site. There are halos around the halos around the halos for F*#%s sake!!!
BTW: I will mock Lucas and THX with this until: A) They come up with a damn good explanation for the quality of this DVD or B) They admit they screwed up (which is never gonna happen).

 

[Kevin Coleman]

I emailed Van Ling about the "workshop" and haven't heard anything at all back.
Kevin C.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

This is Star Wars for chrissake and Lucas can't even do a reference job! It could have easily been a direct digital transfer since 99.99% is CGI to some extent.

It's unlikely that even Ep2 and 3 are going to be digitally transferred, as I hear they want to maintain a consistant film look

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Jeff,
that's odd considering that the next 2 movies won't even be *shot* on film but will be 100% digital from start to finish (using 1080P HD cameras).

Doing a search for "viewing distance" in the TV and Projectors Area, I found that most people recommend sitting at a distance of about 3 or 4 times the height of the screen. However, these are loose figures and no solid figures appear to have been established. Some even say you can sit at a distance of 2.5 times the screen's height and still be okay.

Just how many "screen heights" do you sit back in the theater?
The bottom line is that many, MANY DVD transfers let you get a nice 30 degree angle of viewing with a decent front projection system with no problem at all. Can't do this with T.P.M. unless you *do* want to be distracted by the edge enhancement (in key scenes).
It's not that this transfer is so terrible all things being equal. It's just that THX keeps certifying discs that CLEARLY have problems and they just continue and continue to do it while insulating themselves from criticsm or making lame excuses like "we only certify the initial transfer, not the final master or DVD" or some non-sense like that.
The level of passion that people have *against* this transfer is actually frustration directed at Lucasfilm and THX, both of whom waste our time holding back DVD product while telling us that their logo stamped on a disc is indicative of a transfer being the best-it-can-be. Then we watch these movies and find that the video problems are not source-material related at all...but are mastering artifacts that have been introduced during production.
And we're supposed to just accept this as "ok"???
Nope.
The THX logo is supposed to mean the promise of the highest-fidelity obtainable via the recorded medium given the limits of the condition of the source material.
The guys at THX should either learn to get it right and do something that actually means what it says or just pack their bags, close up shop and go home.
-dave

 

[Joseph Bolus]

The level of passion that people have *against* this transfer is actually frustration directed at Lucasfilm and THX, both of whom waste our time holding back DVD product while telling us that their logo stamped on a disc is indicative of a transfer being the best-it-can-be.

Amen, brother!!!

The reason that we don't have the original trilogy on DVD now is supposedly due to the fact that Lucas wants to do them "right" on DVD and he won't have time to do that until Episode 3 is in the can.

Since this is the only Star Wars film that LucasFilm has provided on DVD so far, it should have set the standard for the rest. Instead it makes us fear that what we have had to wait so very long for on DVD will not live up to our expectations when finally delivered in December 2006.

I still think that Lucas should have provided "bare-bones" DVD's of the OT back in 1998 and/or November 2000 (when they were released to VHS, VHS Widescreen, and overseas LD and VCD). By withholding this product so long from the DVD format he's building expectations that, IMO, will be impossible to fulfill.

 

[Jeffrey Forner]

Have people said it's NOT very good apart from the EE? I haven't seen that.

People have said that the EE completely ruins the transfer. One guy even said in this thread that THX is hypocritical for putting out a transfer like that. I don't think he'd be saying that if he thought it was any good at all.

This is the last word, I'll speak on this matter. If you guys wish to be disappointed by the transfer on this marvelous DVD, that's perfectly fine by me. I just wanted to state my case and I've done so.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

This is the last word, I'll speak on this matter. If you guys wish to be disappointed by the transfer on this marvelous DVD, that's perfectly fine by me. I just wanted to state my case and I've done so.

Had Anchor Bay or Image put this transfer out on DVD we'd all be singing it's praises (ie: no on is saying that this transfer isn't fine on many other counts other than the ringing and slight softness of detail). We know it's a good transfer all-in-all. But it's NOT acceptable if this is the STATEMENT transfer that Lucasfilm/THX promised would set a new REFERENCE for video quality on DVD.
And that IS what they said.
What's particularly frightening is that they might really believe it.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

I guess what also really frustrates a lot of us is seeing the THX stamp on other obviously-flawed-with-EE transfers, like, for example, Fox's The Sound of Music disc.

Perhaps the THX people think that "ringing" is a preferred attribute of a transfer *sigh*.

 

[Kevin Coleman]

Hey I think the sound is excellent.
All was not lost.
The picture also looks good on my 19" computer monitor from about 5' back.
Kevin C.

 

[Ed St. Clair]

Jeffrey Forner,

Your using reviews with a four out of five star & A- rating, proves what this thread is truly about.

PM is not a reference DVD.

And that, THX is at fault.

 

[TedD]

but not so close that I can see scan lines

Just the fact that you have scan lines tells me that you are not what some would consider as a critical viewer.
Many of us have systems where the scan lines are not visible from ANY distance. My seating is 3x the screen height, but 1.3x the screen width, and I see lots of EE on TPM, but none at all on a true reference quality DVD like Moulin Rouge.
You are clearly not picky enough.
Ted

 

[GlennH]

I see lots of EE on TPM, but none at all on a true reference quality DVD like Moulin Rouge.

I think this is a key point. Even though on a global basis TPM is not "bad" it most certainly *is* bad in a relative sense when you consider how good some other DVDs look. People argue that you're too picky or looking too close if you point out the EE on TPM. But why don't these problems exist on the truly reference transfers? What excuse is there for TPM not being in that same class, seeing as how it was delayed so long so that Lucas could "get it right."

 

[DaViD Boulet]

exactly.

People argue that you're too picky or looking too close if you point out the EE on TPM.

Either that or they obviously don't consider watching DVDs on a large-screen projection system and are coming from the perspective that being optimized for NTSC "TV" is good enough as far as DVD is concerned.
I'd love to invite such individuals to see just how jaw droppingly, shocking film-like many DVD transfers can be on my friend's Sharp 9000 16x9 DLP projector. It's honestly a jaw-on-the-floor experience with the better DVDs. Toy Story looks practically like HD. SB Fifth Element is another nail-you-to-the-wall-oh-my-gosh experience. Even some older films like "The Dark Crystal" or "Howard's End" look literally like *real* film. Amazing.
And this is from just 1.5-2 screen widths away
All DVDs should aspire to look as film-like (true to the original) as they can when displayed in a "film like" context of a large-screen projection display. If the artifacts that cause you to have to sit farther away to enjoy the movie are not source-related (the film-elements as the source here), but rather *mastering* related (the DVD production process itself), that's BAD.
Hopefully THX will begin to realize this if they haven't already, get bold, and do something about it.
-dave

 

[Jeffrey Forner]

And this is from just 1.5-2 screen widths away

Just one note of correction, David: I was talking about sitting at a distance determined by screen height not width.

And I know what you mean when you say that it can look stunning. I've seen many DVDs on my TV that completely blow me away in every respect. You're comments about Toy Story 2 are right on the money. I've also been floored by Shrek, Moulin Rouge, and most recently, Training Day.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The expected November release of Episode II will likely be a digital-to-digital transfer of a much better movie, and this whole issue will be forgotten.

I would hope so. The reason given for the digital-to-film-to-digital transfer of TPM was that it was shot on film and should have a consistent film look. Since AOTC was shot digitally, one would think it would be a digital-to-digital transfer to maintain a consistent digital look.

 

[Duke H]

Not to get on a different subject, but I've been having a small problem with play back of Ep. 1. If anyone has a Toshiba SD-4700, please see my post in the Audio/Vidio Sources section. Thanks.

 

[Artur Meinild]

Had Anchor Bay or Image put this transfer out on DVD we'd all be singing it's praises... But it's NOT acceptable if this is the STATEMENT transfer that Lucasfilm/THX promised would set a new REFERENCE for video quality on DVD.

And that IS what they said.

Amen to that. This is exactly what this is all about. It's not the worst transfer out there, BUT they failed to keep their promise. Even Lucas/THX have to learn their own limitations...