Paradigm price fixing (1 Viewer)

[Susana Anderton]

Hmm, I can make 30 excellent widgets a week based on
quality, manufacturing, distribution, etc. In order to do so, I must limit my distribution to keep my costs down and profit up.

That's a good reason for limiting distribution.
So if Paradigm has the luxury of dictating who gets to sell their stuff then it behooves them to be more vigilant in not authorizing deadbeat B&M stores. I'm not talking about the ones merely charging MSRP. I'm talking about the ones charging MSRP and not wanting to waste their time on you demoing speakers, putting ALL SALES ARE FINAL on their receipts, and basically giving you no better service than www.noservice-cheapprices.com. Not doing so can give Paradigm a black-eye.

 

[Luis C]

Bill!

If only the "average joe" knew what real, professional businessowners with an eye to the future go thru for a living...

 

[Josh Lowe]

So other dealers without this policy do not support their dealers, huh? Why would dealers sell anything other than Paradigm??? Isn't there another way to support dealers that don't hurt the consumer?

Who's getting hurt? There are other brands out there. If you don't care for Paradigm's practices then buy something else. If you don't care for a certain dealer then buy from another. It's none of your business what their overhead is or how much money they're making. If you feel their prices are high then don't spend money with them.

What in God's name is so complicated about this?

 

[Josh Lowe]

The dealer whom sticks to the MSRP refuses and the guy walks. Thus he is out of a $920 sale. Let's go so far to say that the dealer would make a $200 profit even after the $920 meaning his cost was in the neighborhood of $720.

Isn't some money better than nothing? To flat out refuse a sale is just ludicrous to me because chances are that guy will be back to buy wire, cabling and other stuff. On top of this, he will get a favorable response from teh guy whom tells his buddies where he got his paradigm's and more $$ comes his way.

To flat out refuse a sale at a 20% discount is only a mistake if there is a competing dealer offering the same product for that discounted price. It's supply and demand. If a dealer has unreasonable prices, poor service and is unwilling to deal, then they go out of business. That's how it works.

I'll never understand how the absolute obviousness of this goes overlooked by so many. You (the rhetorical 'you', not you specifically) do not have a God-given right to buy Paradigm or any other speakers. And they do not have any obligation to sell it to you at the price you want. They have an obligation to themselves to make money and they have an obligation to meet the requirements of the law regarding price fixing. If they're meeting both of those obligations then everything else is irrelevant. If you don't like that, then there are plenty of other options.

I would no sooner want to see a quality brand of speaker like Paradigm being sold at Best Buy than I would seeing Wal Mart carrying BMW cars.

 

[RussKon]

so a certain line of speakers isn't offered at a discount....no one is holding a gun to your head to buy it...you have your choices...pay what the dealer is asking or walk....if the dealer is successful and is in it for the long run, he will be around next year when you have a problem with your amplifier or dvd player or whatever...

the other side of the coin is the "customer" who comes in and asks a million questions of the salesman, has to audition everything in the store, and then goes home and orders the product online to save 5%....and then comes in 6 months later for service because the internet place that sold him the product doesn't service it...and he wonders why the local company doesn't offer him the service for free!!!!!

quit your whining you cheap *********'s....either buy it or don't...but don't waste my time if you have already planned to buy it online....!!!!

 

[Luis C]

Most of this post sniffs of the "re-distribution" of wealth concept ala communism. People complaining that some take risks in developing a profitable market for themselves and then not sharing their hard work and effort with those that want the most for the least, even at the expense of others.

Get a grip people. If I am the one risking my livelihood on either building or selling something, then YOU have to either take it or leave it. Simple as that. Don't complain that you aren't one of the "few" that will pay the price for whatever it is. If you don't have the smack, GO EARN IT!

I don't complain because I don't have a villa in France and and a personal Rolls to take me to the airport. What a totally liberal/Leninist attitude! I'm glad I'm in the USA!

Go capitalism and the entrepeneur!

 

[Matt Jesty]

BOATS cost WAAAAYYYY too much, I want boat mnfgrs to sell to everyone who wants to be a dealer so I can find some redneck to sell it to me for 30% off!....we all know there is way too much margin in those things and the guy who owns the ship building company has the NERVE To drive a Ferrari!

 

[Matt Odegard]

Funny, I just went to one of my local Paradigm dealers websites and they have a sale going on for some Paradigm speakers. Here is a link, are these closeout models or what? Why are they on sale? $110-$500 off PLUS a Onkyo DVS-353 DVD player!http://www.stereoland.com/
hit the IN STORE SPECIALS TAB on the left to see the sale prices.
I e-mailed them to see if this was cosmetically damaged or otherwise damaged speakers but no response yet, I'll let you know.

 

[Mark Zimmer]

Actually, I bought my Weber grill on sale. What's your point?

 

[Matt Odegard]

My point is, if they price fix and don't let dealers give discounts than why would they, the dealers be allowed to put their speakers on sale? If their that stingy of a company why have sales? If they have sales, why not give discounts to a person who just walks in when their is no sale but he/she is sure to buy? That is my point.

Sh*t I've bought toilet paper on sale and full price, makes no difference to me, I still need it.

 

[Dave Nibeck]

Comrade's, please. We will open a speaker store on every corner. Everyone will be alloted the speakers of our choice. You will receive your speakers as we ration them. The line starts to the extreme left. Please no talking in line.

 

[Myron]

I don't know about Paradyne, but I have heard at least one dealer tell me about one manufacturer that put it into the dealer's contract that if the dealer sold any equipment for anything other than MSRP, the dealer would lose his rights to sell that particular manufacturer's equipment.

This type of thing is actually a serious violation of Federal Anti-trust rules.

I have no problems at all with dealers themselves sticking to MSRP if they so desire. After all they must make a profit. And I have no problem and have many times paid more because of a shops service. Its many times as important as the actual sales price.

But for a manufacturer to state that the dealer is absolutely forbidden to charge anything other than MSRP is wrong and illegal. If the dealer wants to unload some old stock at less than MSRP for some reason, he should be able to. Actually according to what I've read on this thread and talked to a dealer about, this would cause the dealer to lose his ability to sell the product. In fact, if the dealer were to give a discount to one of his employees, technically then he's in violation.

One of these days, some lawyer is going to file a class action against a company like Paradyne and win big time. Then they'll be out of business or in bankruptcy. And this is too bad. They may make good products, but stupid legal policies will cost them.

Myron

 

[Josh Lowe]

I have heard at least one dealer tell me about one manufacturer that put it into the dealer's contract that if the dealer sold any equipment for anything other than MSRP, the dealer would lose his rights to sell that particular manufacturer's equipment.

This type of thing is actually a serious violation of Federal Anti-trust rules.

If what the dealer told you is the truth, then yes it's illegal. But I think it's more likely that the dealer made that up as an excuse to explain an unwillingness to negotiate price.

 

[Dave Nibeck]

OK, I am still confused. I make a product. I contract with you to sell it. It is illegal for me to tell you how much to sell my product for?

As I understand it, anti-trust is primarily for monopolies and oligopolies.

I understand anti-trust as it relates to the EchoStar/Hughs merger and even Microsoft. But I hardly think it applies here.

 

[Matt Odegard]

OK, I am still confused. I make a product. I contract with you to sell it. It is illegal for me to tell you how much to sell my product for?

I understand anti-trust as it relates to the EchoStar/Hughs merger and even Microsoft. But I hardly think it applies here.

Why shouldn't it apply here? Its the LAW. Period. That should be all I need to know or hear. You don't just take into consideration a law that has been put in place to keep competition level and say 'well I don't like that law so I'm not going to follow it'. I hope somebody does sue their as*. I don't care how good of speaker they make. Just like I don't care how good of a basketball player Jason Williams was. You shoot and kill someone with a shotgun in your house, you go to prison. Its just that simple. These laws aren't here for people to pick and choose which one they want to obey. No matter what quality product or what he/she does for a living.

 

[Bill Lucas]

Dave,

If you contract me to sell a product and the money goes to you and I make a commission for selling you can dictate the price. If you sell it to me, it is then mine to sell at whatever price I choose to sell it.

Matt,

I'll reiterate (for the second or third time) that NO manufacturer tells me what price that I can sell their product for. This includes Audiostream (the parent company of Sonic Frontiers and Paradigm). While I'm not a Paradign dealer I am an Anthem dealer. I choose to sell at list price but this is my choice and it is not dictated or mandated to me that I must sell at list. I hope that this can clear up this silly notion that Paradigm is dictating the price at which a dealer can sell its product.

 

[Matt Odegard]

Bill, I wasn't refering to you as a dealer. I know its your right to sell your products at whatever price you choose.

Now, when you have acompany like Paradigm who supposedly has in their contract with their dealers that they cannot sell their product below msrp. If that is what they do(I have no idea, just going on what others say) and what they do is illegal by law then I believe they should be sued. Sued and made an example of, so no other buisiness's do this.

 

[Bill Lucas]

Matt,

As I said I'm an Anthem dealer. Anthem and Paradigm are both under the Audiostream umbrella. Nothing in the contract dictates a price at which I must sell product.

 

[Matt Odegard]

Sorry Bill, little out of it today. Then whats with the dealers then? Why does everyone seem to think its Paradigm doing this then? I just don't understand no internet sales either.

 

[Jeff D.]

If any manufacturer chooses to market their product so that they can provide adequate coverage, yet ensure a decent margin for their distributors, then so be it.

Exactly.

Paradigm does not engage in any sort of price fixing. They are, however, very protective of their dealer network. Paradigm makes a high-quality product. They want to ensure that this product is sold in locations that know the product, are able to advise the consumer and can provide service if needed.

Paradigm is very, very, very strict on one point - no dealer is to sell product online or through mail-order. The reason for this is to ensure that the consumer knows exactly what they are getting. While I'm sure there are a lot of intelligent online shoppers, remember that is not always the case. This ensures that Paradigm's product is properly represented and that customer satisfaction is high.

/Jeff