Panasonic red-push - the fix is in!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by JohnnyG, Jul 11, 2001.

  1. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    (I've already posted this in another thread here, but thought it could use a seperate thread)
    SUCCESS!
    I'm positively thrilled to report that Michael is indeed correct! Together, the COLOR, B-Y_G and R-Y_A parameters in the service menu can be adjusted for perfect colour decoder performance!
    So simple, yet I was so blind to the solution. Thanks Michael for leading me to water!
    Basically, all you have to do is set the COLOR parameter so that red is at 0% (using AVIA colour decoder check), then adjust the B-Y_G to bring blue to zero, then R-Y_A to bring green down.
    My before/after numbers (on a PT-51HX41) ended up as:
    COLOR: 20 -> 40
    B-Y_G: 08 -> 2A
    R-Y_A: 02 -> 00
    I overcooked COLOR a bit since the user menu 'Color' is now at 25, but you get the idea. because of the limited range of the R-Y_A parameter, it might not be possible to end up with a 'centered' user Color control.
    So far, I've only tested this for component input and I don't know yet whether these settings affect all input types or not. I'm pretty certain though, that there are different memories for 480i, 480p and 1080i input.
    The picture now looks a LOT more natural. This, combined with this sets nearly flat gray scale, means that it is very accurate colour wise.
    The only thing left is to disable SVM and Panasonic has already told me that they can do this.
    ------------------
    John Golitsis
    Next Big Thing Electronics
     
  2. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    I've now checked it with an S-Video input and it held up pretty well with no colour being more than 10% over in the Avia color decoder check.
    Unfortunately, the user color and tint controls are not perfect, but since this set only has one global set of picture memories, there's not a darn thing you can do about it!
    ------------------
    John Golitsis
    Next Big Thing Electronics
     
  3. Ryan Pream

    Ryan Pream Stunt Coordinator

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  4. Lawrence Samoyloff

    Lawrence Samoyloff Auditioning

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    Johnny:
    What did you pay for yours in Cdn $$?
    I think I want one.
     
  5. Carlo Medina

    Carlo Medina Executive Producer

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    My guess is he paid dealer price...since he's a dealer. [​IMG] [​IMG]
    His website ishttp://www.nbtelectronics.com [​IMG]
    ------------------
    I know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve - Bilbo Baggins
     
  6. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    JohnnyG:
    >>this set only has one global set of picture memories
     
  7. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    Ryan, SVM is adjustable within what Panasonic is calling the 'Engineering menu'. This was easily accessible in last years sets, but the access to it has been changed this year. Once I'm told (or rather, *IF* I'm told) how to access the engineering menu, a few click of the remote and SVM is off.
    I only have a PT-51HX41 currently. I was holding off getting a 47WX51 until the issues with this set (which is essentially identical inside) were resolved. I'm liking the 51" more and more, but now that the red-push is fixed, I have no Toshiba's to compare it to! Just keep in mind that the out-of-the box performance is absolutely abysmal, so you WILL require an ISF calibration if picture quality means anything to you. You can fix the red-push and the convergence yourself, but you can't tame the incredibly blue grey scale without a colorimeter.
    Lawrence, the prices on my web site include calibration and shipping. You'd also save your provincial PST by purchasing out-of-province. Let me know if I can be of any more assistance. My email address is mailto:jgolitsis@nbtelectronics.com
    Rick, the answer to this too is in the engineering menus. You can set different contrast/brightness/color/tint levels (and even color decoder values) for 480i S-Video, 480i Component, 480p Component and 1080i Component.
    ------------------
    John Golitsis
    Next Big Thing Electronics
     
  8. Ryan Pream

    Ryan Pream Stunt Coordinator

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    The biggest issues I have with my TW40X81 are that it doesn't hold black very well and it displays the halo effect often.
    What do you think of your Panasonic in these regards?
    Thanks a bunch,
    Ryan
     
  9. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    I'll check it for those particular issues. This is isn't the best environment for that though, so don't take my results as gospel.
    Heck, don't take anything I ever say as gospel [​IMG]
    ------------------
    John Golitsis
    Next Big Thing Electronics
     
  10. Andrew Beacom

    Andrew Beacom Supporting Actor

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    Johnny,
    >>Just keep in mind that the out-of-the box performance is absolutely abysmal, so you WILL require an ISF calibration if picture quality means anything to you. You can fix the red-push and the convergence yourself, but you can't tame the incredibly blue grey scale without a colorimeter.
     
  11. Bruno

    Bruno Auditioning

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    JohnnyG, I've been looking at your set HX41. Does it sqweeze in 480i a la HS10?
    Thanks!
    Bruno.
     
  12. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings
    Abysmal is such a harsh way to describe things. If the image in the store is what sells you on the TV, then you will more likely than not, get the same picture quality from your TV too. (In 99.99% of the cases.) Unless you happen to live in Calgary or Edmonton that is. [​IMG]
    Descriptors like this are so relative. I would more likely describe it as a decent to good image once you put it through the basics on VE or AVIA. If you want very good to excellent performance ... then you need to research or seek outside help.
    When you hear the word abysmal ... you associate "unwatchable" with it. This is no where the case.
    Pioneer sets come from the factory in the best shape (typically). But you often end up paying a premium on these sets. And depending on the unit, sometimes the premium is many more times the cost of bringing someone in to calibrate the TV.
    I've had a brief look at the new 47" Panny and I found it to be "good" to "very good." There are some issues and we are making good headway to getting them resolved.
    Regards
    ------------------
    [​IMG]
    Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
     
  13. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    From an ISF-standards standpoint, abysmal is an accurate description for this particular 51HX41's out-of-the-box performance, in my opinion. To me, 'unwatchable' is exactly what it was. Heck the first person I know of to purchase a 47WX51 has returned it - to him too I guess it was unwatchable!
    Gray scale well over 12,000 degrees, red push that's off the chart and a sharpness level that clearly displays every MPEG2 macroblock on a DVD all adds up to abysmal performance in my opinion.
    I don't think having to put the set through VE/Avia before it looks half-decent is fair either. At least on the Toshiba's, you can put it into 'Movie' mode and be 75% of the way there instantly.
    Perhaps the particular sample I received was poorly tuned? Perhaps the 47WX49/51 is tuned more accurately at the factory?
    The thing is, the folks here are not your typical consumer and they WILL complain about the issues that I've raised. Best to be up-front with them now.
    The good news is that the fixes are coming and this particular ugly duckling is becoming a beautiful swan.
    ------------------
    John Golitsis
    Next Big Thing Electronics
     
  14. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    Bruno, no, the 4:3 sets will only squeeze down for a 1080i input, unfortunately.
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    John Golitsis
    Next Big Thing Electronics
     
  15. Ryan Pream

    Ryan Pream Stunt Coordinator

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    If someone calibrated via VE/Avia, fixed the red push, and then calibrated the grey scale and wrote down all his display and service menu settings....would this get other TV's of the same model close to being calibrated properly?
    With my luck (everything I buy breaks) I would get the set ISF calibrated and have a CRT go out :).
    Ryan
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  16. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings Ryan
    Short answer ... No. Transferring settings and service menu values will not necessarily get you any closer to that desired optimum point. Sometimes it will take you further away.
    The combination of all the elements in the TV means that every component behaves slightly different from another. From Capcitors to resistors to power supplies ... to the human factor.
    Having a TV belly up on you after a calibration is the same risk we all have to take for so many other things in life.
    I get major service for my car at big $$ ... then a design defect in the car causes a fire and scuttles the car. Should I get a refund for the major service work?
    I bring people in to build my basement. Shortly after completion, the existing furnace malfunctions and burns the house down. Can I get away with not paying for the basement work? Should I never attempt any of these again because of the risk of "what if?"
    Regards
    ------------------
    [​IMG]
    Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
     
  17. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    Gentlemen,
    Can you recommend this set without reservation?
    Am I better off spending more on a different model? Or is this the "one"?
    I'm an extreme newbie to HD and TVs period. My whole life has been audio. I have to know if this is the "one"...or being a newbie to RP should I wait it out?
    What is the typical charge for ISF calibration?
    Thanks
    Jer
     
  18. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings
    Ask me after I have actually calibrated one of these units. Like a week or two away.
    Calibration cost information is available at the Keohi.com/keohihdtv site. (Anywhere from $250 to $1000?)
    Regards
    ------------------
    [​IMG]
    Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
     
  19. Andrew Beacom

    Andrew Beacom Supporting Actor

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    Michael,
    What in your opinion is a reasonable expectation for out of the box performance?
    I can't speak for anyone else but as a newbie to RPTV's I don't have a problem calibrating with VE or AVIA but I think I would hope to have a pretty good picture before I started diving into service menus.
    Do any brands excel at out of the box or is it pretty much a lottery?
    Thanks.
    BTW I realised after I read your SVM article at Keohi today that I have had a bad assumption in my assesment of my cable picture. I have a Panny 32in Flat screen and when I got it I thought my cable feed must be really bad quality. I now realise that some of the problems I have are being caused by my sets aggressive SVM.
    [Edited last by Andrew Beacom on July 12, 2001 at 11:58 PM]
     
  20. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    Michael,
    Thanks, I anxiously await your opinion on this set.
    It is time I add an RPTV to my HT
    Jeremy
     

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