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Panasonic red-push - the fix is in! (1 Viewer)

Michael TLV

THX Video Instructor/Calibrator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2000
Messages
2,909
Location
Calgary, Alberta
Real Name
Michael Chen
Greetings
Keep in mind that we are all working our way up a proverbial quality ladder. If you do not know what the next step brings, then you tend to think that you have it good where you are.
You get better over time as you tweak your picture and come to understand what constitutes a better image.
Think of it as a quality food chain ... you feast on McDonalds ... if you don't know there are better restaurants out there. Eventually you find the next best restaurant ... and continue moving up the chain.
I expect the image of my new TV to deliver me an image that is at least comparable to the image I saw in the store that sold me on the TV. The image on the Panny 47" in a non-calibrated form in the store was quite acceptable to my eyes. I felt that it was a good place to start. (Remember that 99% of the people that buy the set will also find it perfectly acceptable.)
I could drive a BMW or a Benz and simply tell you not to bother with any other car out there, but that just doesn't help. Let's find a set that appears to have some potential and see where we can take it.
Something akin to throwing a phaser into the hands of a primative. Too much too soon.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, Pioneers come OOTB needing the least amount of additional attention. but you pay for that through the substantially higher price tag.
You could buy a lesser set, but pay for the calibration yourself and that lesser set would leap frog the Pioneer and you would still have money in your pocket.
Fully calibrate all the main units out there and you will find that most sets end up looking pretty much the same. All excellent with the differences not worth splitting hairs over. Each set will still have its little quirks and you can never get away from that.
You are pretty much assured of a good foundation if you pick from any of the major players.
A tale of what calibration does ... A tale of perspective.
I once worked on two Toshiba units side by side. A 50" and a 55". Calibrating the 50" first with only the basic ISF stuff made the image better looking than the 55" sibling. It's smaller and you would expect that. By most standards, I could have stopped and the resulting image would have been classified as the best image on the floor.
I played with the 55" next and I went with a more advanced calibration regime and the result was that the 55" now far exceeded the image of the 50". What was once the best on the floor suddenly did not look so great after the other set took the next step. Now what happened here? Nothing was done to the 50" from the time it was the best on the floor a mere 40 minutes ago to something less than stellar.
This is what I am trying to get across, the image you get from these sets is quite pleasing initially. Over time as you train yourself ... the set has the potential to take the next step.
Regards
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Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
 

RyanDinan

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 25, 2000
Messages
249
Hi Michael,
You wouldn't happen to be comming through Columbia, Missouri anytime in the future, would you? :)
Sony finally replaced my HS10 with another - But this new set has such a bad grayscale, it's amazing they sent it out looking the way it does. Blacks are green...and the green cut value is almost at it's lowest setting (005) - Which doesn't leave much room to adjust. Whites are most likely very hot - probably upwards of 10-12K. I've tried to eyeball it to get it tollerable, but I think it's just an exercise in futility without proper instrumentation.
Im currently building an optical comparator and a solar-cell/DMM grayscale tracking device....Im hoping that will get me close to D6500K. The only problem is that I need to get the initial white point close to D6500K....And to do that, I need a decent D6500K light bulb...Which I can;t seem to find anywhere...
Ah well....
Let me know if you're gonna be out my way! :)
-Ryan Dinan
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ken t

Agent
Joined
Mar 24, 2001
Messages
46
I've adjusted me settings to fix the red-push. Now the color looks much more natural, but there is a slight greenish tint to some fleshtones. This doesn't always show, but it is noticeable in some scenes. Now, is this normal color decoding or am I pushing too much green? Is the 00 setting for r-y_a the lowest setting for the green band? Recommendations? I don't have any color filters and have calibrated using VE...
thanks
 

Carlo_M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 31, 1997
Messages
13,392
Ryan, keep us informed on how you do with the D6500K method.
I just spent 3 hours on the fine convergence menu getting geometry and convergence set (holy crap that's a lot of lines!). I'm finally happy and tonight will sit down to try the red-push fix.
Thanks to John G. for all of his hard work and willingness to share the information. Thanks to Michael TLV as well for everything.
This set has gone from "Oh CRAP I made a mistake buying this set" out-of-the-box performance to "SWEEEEEEEEET!" after I did the convergence and initial AVIA calibration. Now I can't wait to try the red push and the re-do the AVIA calibrations.
I love this place!
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My dealer of choice (especially if you live in So-Cal, I highly recommend them): www.yawaonline.com
 

JohnnyG

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
Messages
1,522
I dunno, Ryan...that sounds like an aweful lot of work - with no guaranteed results - to save a couple of hundred bucks!
Ken, you just can't adjust the colour decoder properly without something like Avia's Color Decoder Test pattern and R/G/B filters (included with Avia).
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John Golitsis
Next Big Thing Electronics
 

Michael TLV

THX Video Instructor/Calibrator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2000
Messages
2,909
Location
Calgary, Alberta
Real Name
Michael Chen
Greetings Ryan
Try pet stores and plant stores for 6500K light bulbs.
Try camera stores for gray patterns.
Unfortunately or not ... I have no current plans to visit the deep south.
Regards
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Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
 

Carlo_M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 31, 1997
Messages
13,392
Michael, how about a Southern California swing? Surely there are others in Hollywood who are looking for a great ISF calibrationist (is that a word?). :)
I'm actually having a blast doing the convergence and trying to fix the red push. I would however like my gray scale set to D6500K and SVM disabled. Hope you and John hear back from Panasonic regarding that. I am learning a lot by doing these things, but I'm sure watching you calibrate my set would be infinitely more helpful for doing future, minor tweaks and upkeep.
Thanks!
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My dealer of choice (especially if you live in So-Cal, I highly recommend them): www.yawaonline.com

[Edited last by Carlo Medina on July 19, 2001 at 12:31 PM]
 

Michael TLV

THX Video Instructor/Calibrator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2000
Messages
2,909
Location
Calgary, Alberta
Real Name
Michael Chen
Greetings
In the shameless plug department ... there is a tour planned for early October for LA. While most of the slots are filled ... there might be space for a quick visit near the end.
Keohi HDTV site has all the details and contact information.
Regards
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Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
 

Carlo_M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 31, 1997
Messages
13,392
No need to be ashamed of the plug! I have sent Dean an email inquiry to your SoCal tour. I hope to be able to meet you in October.
Thanks again for everything.
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My dealer of choice (especially if you live in So-Cal, I highly recommend them): www.yawaonline.com
 

Jeff Leigh

Agent
Joined
Jun 24, 2001
Messages
48
I finally took the plunge and got into service mode to fix red push and here is what I found:
1) The color seems to vary quite a bit between 480I(cable) and 480P(dvd). I ended up setting the color so it looked right for 480I and then using my DVD player to further tweak the color for 480P. I also wanted to set the user controls at 31 after I was done, so here are my numbers:
COLOR 23 -> 15
TINT 26 -> 17
BRIGHT 33 -> 43
CONT 03 -> 06
B-Y_G 04 -> 2C
R-Y_A 04 -> 00
Sharpness at 0, all the rest at 31
(R-Y_A may actually be too low, I'll check again later when I get around to fixing the convergence problems.)
On my RP91, I used the following settings:
Brightness +3
Color -6
Tint +9
This seems to give me the best picture on DVD and cable. Luckily I have a cable channel with a color bar test pattern, so it was much easier to set than normal.
2) Unlike JohnnyG, I found that COLOR set the green level, B-Y_G set the blue level, and R-Y_A set the red level. Green and red seem to track each other pretty closely, with blue having the most variation.
3) I also found that on my set (a PT-47WX49E) that I was unable to set the service registers if I was sending a 480P. When in 480P mode, it only let me change about 5 registers and none of them related to color. I'm also see know where multiple input memories can be very handy. Does anyone know how to get into the color decoder registers when in 480P mode?
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Carlo_M

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 31, 1997
Messages
13,392
Jeff,
I echo both of your experiences and also wonder if there's a way to change the settings for 480P 16:9 mode. When I feed it a 480P anamorphic signal, it only registers as 480P 4:3 and those 5 values are the only ones able to be affected.
Weird.
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My dealer of choice (especially if you live in So-Cal, I highly recommend them): www.yawaonline.com
 

John-D

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Feb 27, 2001
Messages
198
I need a decent D6500K light bulb...Which I can't seem to find anywhere
i recall having read somewhere that Radio Shack has some flashlights which use this bulb (F4T5/DL).
If you find one, would you please let us all know where u found it!
Regards
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The things we own end up owning us
 

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