**Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106* (2 Viewers)

[Jari K]

China has always been playing by their own rules in everything (human rights, anyone?) and piracy is a HUGE problem there. HUGE. I don´t have any official figures or anything here, but I doubt that even DVD is be making "real money" there (due the piracy and other issues - many people are still quite poor), let alone CH-DVD (or whatever the name is).

If (?) you somehow try to imply that China will "save" HD DVD (via CH-DVD) and eventually keep the dead format alive, you´re sadly mistaken. Hell, CD-DVD might have some success in China (it´s a huge country, after all) - but China alone. E.g. US and European countries will start ordering their films in China now, just because they "miss HD DVD" so much? That´s one serious pipe dream.

I can see the news-story:
Headline: "HD DVD fans moving to China"
Quote: "It´s a place where we can have some peace! Evil corporations can´t touch us there! Just us, CH-DVD and everlasting harmony. For us, HD DVD never died."

(okay okay, bad joke.. )

 

[Jari K]

Good sale, but in BOGOs, you got e.g. "Die Hard" AND "Die Hard 2" for that $19.99 (roughly, at least). Now it´s $19.99 for "Die Hard" (decent price, though). So yes, I have to say that I miss BOGOs.

 

[Nick Graham]

For those still beholden to HD DVD only, there are a few copies of Bee Movie up on eBay right now that slipped through the cracks. One is currently going for $400 (with hours left to go), but I suppose that is a better use of $400 than buying a Blu-Ray player for some.

In all seriousness, I actually just ordered one final HD DVD, the German T2 Ultimate Edition. It looks like it's going to put the "interactive" trinkets that have been stuck on domestic BDs and HDs to shame. Should be a good indicator of what to expect in a year or so once developers have got the hang of BD-Live. Assuming the majority of the players on the market a year from now support BD-Live, of course *sigh*.

 

[Jari K]

I actually ordered that also. I´m not really sure why (since it still cost me around 45$ or something!), I guess it was just one of those "heat of the moment"-things. I probably thought that it´s one release I want to own for the extras etc, even if some super-SE will be released on Blu-ray later on..

Then again, perhaps it´s just some PR-hype and I won´t ever bother to watch those extras..

But yes, last HD DVD for me too. I even skip the sales from now on..

 

[Nick Graham]

I had a $50 freelance job last weekend helping out an old customer from my now defunct shop, and I've been wanting T2 on HDM for some time. The Lionsgate release on Blu is weak, and has a lossy DTS-HD track like this disc. While I'm sure Van Ling is working on a killer Blu release that I will own, the insane amount of interactive features coupled with the likely collectible nature of it convinced me to get it on a lark.

The only HD-DVD I still own is The Eagles: Live From Melbourne, as I didn't think there was any guarantee of a Blu release, at least soon.

 

[Mark Talmadge]

If I can remember where I read those articles from I'll be glad to post them but as I stated before, Blu Ray Players don't play all SD DVD's and Blu Ray isn't the successor to the DVD format, it's just a high definition media format.

Personally, there's no way I would ever consider buying into the Blu Ray format. If it came down to DVD going the way of the dust I'd just download everything through other venues. My reasons are as follows:

1. The prices for Blu Ray hardware have consistantly gone up since HD-DVD bowed out of the race even when Sony stated that prices on Blu Ray would be more affordable if there were only one competing format. Sony has managed to snag a monopoly on the High Def market.

Check out the most recent prices on Blu Ray players: TG Daily - Blu-ray player prices hit 2008 highs as competition dwindles

2. Later this year, when the new BD Profiles come out, those new players will render current models obsolete, making certain features installed on new BD Disks unable to be used on previous models. With standard DVD players, you didn't have this problem to worry about since DVD players are never made obsolete and that just new models are released.

Sure, newer models of Blu Ray players are bound to be made but to drastically change future players that make previous models obsolete because of a drastic change to the way the player reads the disk is unfair to consumers and many agree with this.

Until Sony wises up, there is going to be even more confusion among consumers because if future Blu Ray players continue to make previous ones obsolete, it's just going to be the worst time for a consumer to purchase a Blu Ray player with the price factor also adding into the equation.

Most families don't have the $300-$800 to spend on a Blu Ray player and most aren't going to. For the average consumer, like myself, I won't spend more than $100 on a player. Anything higher than that just isn't worth the purchase price, especially for home entertainment and Sony has failed to see this time and time again. This was the biggest reason why Sony had a hard time selling PS3's for the $499.99 asking price for the PS3.

I don't claim to understand it but Sony treats the North American market like the Japanese one and you can't do that. The economies are totally different. With respect to home entertainment, consumers always bargain shop. I do it all of the time, looking for the best deal. But, until the prices for Blu Ray players and the software for them (movies, television shows) and the obsolete factor, Sony will continue to struggle getting those average consumers to buy the technology.

Currently, the only consumers buying into the Blu Ray format are those who can afford to spend $700 to over a thousand dollars on a high definition television set and who make middle income salaries, the tech saavy consumer. The majority of consumers that you see looking for home entertainment are those who are low income to slightly above minimum wage who will spend $200 to $300 for one of those HTIB systems.

 

[Brian Sheffield]

I'm not going to refute you post point by point because most of your reasons are valid, at least to you; however, the above is completely and utterly wrong.

Blu-ray players play all DVDs. The only possible exception is that no blu-ray player is currently region free.

(A North American Blu-ray player will be coded region 1 for DVD and Region A for Blu-ray etc.)

 

[Jari K]

Well, if everything´s going as planned, it´ll "replace SD DVD" someday. But of course, we don´t know that will this actually happen and if it happens, when. Saying that "it´ll" is as good/bad as "it won´t". We don´t know yet.

For the record, most of us enjoy both SD DVD and Blu-ray (HD DVD also) - rarely the "HD-oriented" people really "dislike SD DVD" or something like that. They just choose HD over SD DVD, IF that´s possible (many times it isn´t - you need to buy films in SD DVD and Blu-ray).

But yes, we´re (including myself! ) definitely going in circles now. Other camp wants to enjoy Blu-ray (=high definition) - and kinda leave the bitter talk behind - and other camp dislikes Blu-ray and/or generally high definition. Both wants to "be heard". I doubt that we´re really going anywhere with this talk..

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Blu-ray is not Sony. The BDA makes decisions about the format. And hardware pricing happens to not be one of them... that's up to the individual companies making the players.

 

[Jari K]

It´s futile, David. For the certain group of people, Blu-ray is Sony and Sony is evil. This won´t change in any time soon.. In the future, we´ll have players from the several other companies (now it´s mainly Sony and Panasonic).

 

[FrancisP]

China has been fertile ground for hdtvs. There are a lot of poor people but there are a lot of people doing well. Also the government is actively pushing hd. It seems to be fertile ground for hd media.

I would point out that blu-ray does not have a deep reservoir of support in the US or Europe. Bluray won in the US because Sony bought more media companies than Toshiba did. It didn't win because a huge amount of people went out and bought bluray. Neither format made deep inroads in the US or Europe. The hd market is still wide open.

The world does not revolve around the US or Europe. The entire Asian region is growing faster than the US or Europe. India is a hotbed of growth. As a result, there are many avenues to push hd.

The difference is that I'm not interested in getting rid of bluray. I believe in competition. Competition gives more innovation at lower costs. I am looking at having a choice. People who want bluray can buy bluray and people who want something different can get that.

Again there is no question that Paramount botched the War of the Worlds disc. My concern is that I don't believe that a company like Paramount would bother to fix the mess that they created for a hd release. A movie does not automatically look better because its on hd.

Also found this little item at N4G.com.

 

[Jesse Blacklow]

I find it odd that someone who loves to go on about BD's profiles and cry wolf about obsolescence would look towards a tech that would do the exact same thing to DVD. Unless, of course, you actually believe all of that DVD 2.0 nonsense could be done on the billions of existing DVD players with nothing more than a firmware upgrade.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Blu-ray player prices have not gone up in the last few months. MSRP has been the same on all available models. What has changed is the sale price by retailers. Simply put, the holiday and Super Bowl discounts have ended.

Of course, when the promotions were going on, the complaint was that Blu-ray had to "give away" players to be successful. :rolleyes

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Properly mastered, virtually any film (even 16mm stock) will look more failthul to the original in HD than in SD.

Improper mastering can affect all media everwhere, including 35mm release prints.

(this is not disagreeing with you that it would be a shame if Paramount simpy used the current HD master for that title for BD with out fixing the contrast-issue in those particular scenes).

 

[Jari K]

Of course. Totally. But the choices are not that "wide" as you try to imply. HD-downloading? HDTV-channels? HD DVD (still kicking for a while)? Or go back to SD DVD? Or just use DivX and similar stuff from the net?

If you want to talk about some other "choices", they have to be "real choices", not some Chinese formats that 5 "hardcore anti-BD"-people are willing to buy.

Just out of curiosity; Do you buy Blu-ray-titles now? Ever?

 

[Clinton McClure]

Why????

 

[Cees Alons]

There are some doubts about the source of that info!


Cees

 

[DaViD Boulet]

If there's any truth to that rumor (strange that no other reliable source has confirmed yet), the reasons could be:

1. Toshiba makes money off of DVD royalties.
2. MS makes money off of HDi royalties and the OP systems that hardware needs installed to run it.

Certainly we've seen Toshiba push DVD over HDM in their latest "upconversion identical to HD" claims. Though that doesn't imply that they are pushing for a new DVD spec (more likely they are just using upconversion as a way to keep pushing SD DVD).

I doubt that a new DVD spec would have much traction. The new features wouldn't work on any regular DVD players, and folks aren't going to replace their DVD hardware for a few discs that have such features.

Think about it: we already have interactive DVD-ROM features on many DVD titles and CD-enhanced discs. But that's never been enough of a motivation for the consumer to demand players that can access such features... you just play your DVD or CD in your computer when you want to see that stuff. It seems that basically what this new DVD profile would be is making every DVD player into a PC in terms of accessing DVD-ROM material. That's a lot of cost overhead for all hardware for very little return from a consumer point of view... given that they can just use their PC/laptop if they want to see those features.

Even were a new DVD spec established, the major studios will be focusing on Blu-ray for BD-Live and other enhanced features as part of a marketing tool over SD DVD. It's what the major studios will do that will determine what does and doesn't happen even were a new DVD spec to be approved.

 

[Paul.S]

"Analysts Discuss the Impact of Blu-ray on the Industry at the CDSA Confab"

Jim Bottoms' (co-managing director of Understanding & Solutions) "consumer con" comment will rally some and roil others.

". . . [T]he studios need to decide how long Blu-ray remains a value-added proposition and how long before it should replace DVD."

 

[Robert Crawford]

It will never replace DVD unless 80-90% of the general public buys a HDTV at the very least.