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*** Official Film Noir Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

george kaplan

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Like everything else in this discussion, we're talking fine lines. While Bacall doesn't serve as a femme fatale by the time the movie is over, she is certainly in that function throughout most of the film. The only real difference is that in the end, her motives turn out to be good, and she can be trusted. Rewrite the last few minutes of the film (without changing anything that came prior), and she could easily be a conniving, lying bitch and a femme fatale. I guess I'm saying that I think that film has 'enough' of a femme fatale to qualify.
 

Andy Sheets

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I've never seen it. I've heard about it, though, and I've heard that Spillane actually did a pretty good job playing Hammer. Is it on dvd yet?
 

Seth--L

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I would not call The Third Man a noir film. While it has the visual look, it lacks the thematics. For instance, despite the film's cynical outlook, 'the system' works in it. Holly tries to be an independent agent of justice, and all he finds out is that Calloway is really a good guy.
 

Robert Crawford

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As all of us can see, we all have different interpretations as to what constitutes a film noir. Hopefully, after recognizing that difference in opinion, this thread will move forward and shift the discussion towards more in-depth discussion about specific films.
 
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Herb - I noticed that The Last Seduction wasn't on your list. Do you, or anyone else for that matter, not consider this movie noir or neo-noir? I think that Linda Fiorentino's characters is one of the great FFs.

Greg
 

Daniel Bell

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Thanks Walter! I'll check some of those out. Especially the Bogart one. I've seen Double Indemnity. Great movie!
 

Zen Butler

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Greg, I sure would consider The Last Seduction a neo-noir. It appears the thread's originator is allowing for wide discussion covering films well beyond the 1940-1958 time period. Noir and neo-noir, for identification sake only, Robert, I'm ready and willing to dig in to the meat.

In regards to Reed, How would you rank The Fallen Idol? With his two other gems being mentioned.
 

Walter Kittel

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Dave - Excellent summation in post #38. And BTW, welcome to the HTF.

Robert - Good suggestion. I'll be moving on to more specific film discussion. I have a couple of ideas I'm pondering regarding this thread. Discussing more contemporary noirs is fine with me. I would hate to limit the discussion too much.

- Walter.
 

Peter M Fitzgerald

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Y'know, as cool a term "film noir" is to say or to write, sometimes I think we might be better off calling these crackerjack films what the people who made them used to call them:

Thrillers
Mysteries
Melodramas
Crime pictures

So much simpler that way, with none of the quibbling.

There, problem solved. :D

I don't have a "top ten" list, but here are some good films that don't get mentioned as often (though are on Herb's master list elsewhere on this forum):

THIEVES' HIGHWAY (1949)
CRIME WAVE (1954)
THE FACE BEHIND THE MASK (1941)
WOMAN IN HIDING (1949)
711 OCEAN DRIVE (1950)
INFERNO (1953)
CANON CITY (1948)
NAKED ALIBI (1954)
FOURTEEN HOURS (1951)
SPLIT SECOND (1953)
JOHNNY COOL (1963)
THE PHENIX CITY STORY (1955)
WARNING SHOT (1967)
THE INCIDENT (1967)
THE KILLER THAT STALKED NEW YORK (1950)
THE OUTFIT (1973)
THE HIT (1984)
PAST TENSE (1994)
 

DaveButcher

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I don't know, they're called that because, there are themes/styles/visions that link these films. And they are stronger then the themes that link "thrillers" from the 1960's or 1980's. You can't just call them something else, the french really did see something when they watched them all, and that style still apperent today.

You're not really gonna compare Nick and Nora Chatles to Marlowe or Hammer are you?:)
 

Herb Kane

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Greg... no I haven't. I'm most certainly from the camp the believes film noir existed primarily between 1940 and 1960 - with a few exceptions on either side and as such I would (personally) label The Last Seduction as a neo-noir just as I would with the majority of fine films mentioned here in this thread produced after the early 60's i.e. Blade Runner (tech-noir), L.A. Confidential, Chinatown, The Man Who Wasn't There etc etc.
 

Robert Crawford

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Dave,
First off, welcome to the forum, but I think you need to reread my post again. Where in my post did I suggest that we stop talking about what noir is today or even tomorrow? I made it very clear in my post that once we exhausted that part of the discussion that I hope we move on to other topics of discussion like specific film titles.






Crawdaddy
 

DaveButcher

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whoops, you're right. sorry 'bout that. As you know, I'm new here, so I couldn't read you're personality as well as others could. Wasn't sure if it had been directed at me or not (overly sensitive? probably).

This forum seems civilised, and that is a rare thing so I should have fun.
 

Lew Crippen

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Having written that I’m more in the camp with Walter and Herb, I really don’t care that much if we classify Chinatown as film noir or neo-film noir.

I care a bit more about films like The Usual Suspects but I’ve made two posts on that movie already and I know that Robert and I see the world differently. In this case also, the classification of the film one way or the other is not that important.

A good discussion on the film and the elements of the film, vis-à-vis the concept of film noir should prove to be enlightening.

And welcome Dave—this is a very civilized forum. I’m sure you will enjoy yourself.
 

Walter Kittel

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Well, Dave may have gotten that impression from my post, Robert. Because to be honest that is sort of what I thought you were implying. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Anyway, on with the thread. :)

- Walter.
 

Mike Kelly

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Here are some settings and scenes from various film noirs that give me immense enjoyment:

Jazz Clubs:
D.O.A: After a rather routine and sometimes corny beginning, the film abruptly shifts to the world of noir with the scene in "The Fisherman" jazz club. The angles, close-ups of sweating musicians and frantic jive fanatics, the actual crime occurring throw the film into high gear with O'Brien giving us a character of such self-determination seldom seen on screen.

Phantom Lady: Ella Raines strutting her stuff and Elisha Cook Jr. drumming to climactic orgasm in an improvised jazz session is definitely the highlight of this film, and a wonder it got by the censors..

Staircases and steps, and tunnels:
Dark Passage: After undergoing plastic surgery, Humphrey Bogart climbs up a seemingly endless set of steps to get back to Lauren Bacalls apartment. One of the many great San Francisco location shots in this far-fetched but for me very watchable noir.

Kiss Me Deadly: Ralph Meeker, perhaps the most brutal of the P.I.s throws a hood down a long set of steps on the streets of L. A. presumably to his demise.

He Walked by Night: Richard Basehart, an extremely intelligent and elusive cop-killer, uses the storm drains of L.A. to escape police until they figure it out. The final chase is beautifully filmed.

The Third Man: The sewers of Vienna are the final trap for Orson Welles in this most magnificently photgraphed black and white film.

Shadows and fog, neon and venetian blinds: These visual staples of noir are too numerous for one listing. Here are some:
Murder My Sweet: The alternating neon sign and reflection of hulking Mike Mizurki as Marlowe (Dick Powell) sits at his office desk.

Double Indemnity: Fred MacMurray is awash in the shadow effect of sunlight through the venetian blinds when he first meets femme fatale Barbara Stanwyck in her home.

The Big Combo: One of the darkest of the noirs, probably in part to hide the cheap sets, the ending shoot-out in the airplane hanger is so fog enshrouded you could cut it and spoon it up.
 

Robert Crawford

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Yes, I think it's one of the best scenes in any of these films, probably because I always thought Ella Raines was one of the most striking actresses I ever saw on screen.







Crawdaddy
 

Haggai

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Well, I definitely want to see that movie now!

Speaking of striking actresses, after watching Out Of The Past for the first time ever thanks to the Warners noir box set, I'm surprised that Jane Greer didn't become a pretty major star. She was extraordinary.
 

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