New Star Wars Trilogy Announced (Rian Johnson) (1 Viewer)

[benbess]

What I am saying is, when Han asks Maz where she got Luke's saber, it's clear that Abrams doesn't care. The answer isn't important to Abrams, just the mystery. He's said this about his work. It's not my opinion. That's how he makes a living. Not with answers but with questions (which is why episode 9 will be a challenge for him, because he's going to have to cough up some answers for a change). So that's why it's Abrams's fault. He thoughtlessly painted Johnson into a corner and left Johnson there without any paint to get out of it.

If Abrams's treatment of the light saber had integrity and rigor, and then Johnson reversed it, it would have been Johnson's fault. But if Abrams isn't going to put any thought into it, why should Johnson? The sooner he chucked those hollow expectations over the cliff, the better.

Don't get me wrong. I like Mr. Abrams. He's smart; he's classy, and he's one of the most loyal people in showbiz. If he has your back, he will have it till the end. He knows how to cast. He knows how to create chemistry. He handles big pressure with big results. He does more things right than wrong. He and I simply have a fundamental disagreement about storytelling: He thinks mystery is more important than substance. I do not.

Apparently, neither does Johnson.

Well said. This is a balanced and insightful analysis of JJA's strengths and weaknesses.

I felt that his two Star Trek movies suffered from and benefited from the same things. Even though it was in 2009, I'm still a little upset about the destruction of the planet Vulcan. And even though it was in 2013, I'm still annoyed at the reincarnation of Khan. He did both those things for "wow" moments that ultimately hurt Trek more than they helped imho.

 

[Tino]

Well said. This is a balanced and insightful analysis of JJA's strengths and weaknesses.

I felt that his two Star Trek movies suffered from and benefited from the same things. Even though it was in 2009, I'm still a little upset about the destruction of the planet Vulcan. And even though it was in 2013, I'm still annoyed at the reincarnation of Khan. He did both those things for "wow" moments that ultimately hurt Trek more than they helped imho.

I Disagree Ben. I thought both his Trek films were terrific and none of those issues bothered this long time Trek fan.

Also he wasn’t the sole writer on those Trek films but again he gets all the blame.

 

[Tino]

Carabimero said.

“when Han asks Maz where she got Luke's saber, it's clear that Abrams doesn't care. The answer isn't important to Abrams, just the mystery. “

This is opinion not fact.

 

[benbess]

I Disagree Ben. I thought both his Trek films were terrific and none of those issues bothered this long time Trek fan.

Also he wasn’t the sole writer on those Trek films but again he gets all the blame.

As always, the two of us need to agree to disagree when it comes of JJA's Trek films.

But actually, overall, I still like those movies. I'd rate both of them a solid "B+" probably, in spite of their serious flaws from my pov.

And Star Trek into Darkness did have a there there. As many pointed out at the time, the movie explored in a sci fi way our current drone wars.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

New Again. Johnson could have come up with numerous explanations for the saber. And Snoke. And any other story thread from TFA. He chose not too. Blame Johnson. NOT JJ, Kasdan and Arndt.

This constant piling on JJ is getting old. And unfair imo. Jeez. I hold Johnson accountable for everything in TLJ. And him alone. He has the sole writing credit.

I think if someone wanted to place a little "blame" to someone other than Johnson, the only person it could reasonably be applied to is Kathleen Kennedy. And I like the movie, so I have nothing to be upset about. But, if you want to look at it that way...Kennedy is in charge here. She hired Abrams and Johnson, she approved the scripts for their films for production, and had final cut. The only person with the authority to say to Johnson, "do this, or don't do this" was Kennedy.

FWIW, Abrams did not have a writing credit of any kind on his two Star Trek films. No written by, no screenplay by, no story by. They're really not unsolved mystery box storytelling.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Also: if the question of where Maz got Luke's lightsaber, or Snoke's origins, or whatever, is that important to Abrams, he can still answer those questions himself in Episode IX. Just because Snoke is dead doesn't necessarily mean he won't be discussed in the next film, especially if somehow word got out within the First Order about Kylo killing him and not Rey. That would be kind of hard, since Rey and Kylo are the only ones alive who know what really happened in that room, but not impossible.

Episode IX is a sequel to The Last Jedi, but it is also a second sequel to The Force Awakens, so it would be perfectly appropriate for Abrams to bring plot threads from TFA back around, if he so chooses.

Look at how The Dark Knight Rises, which is technically a direct sequel to The Dark Knight, brought back themes, ideas and the villainous organization from Batman Begins, which had gone unmentioned in the middle film.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Speaking of Rey's Force ability, she's possibly the most powerful Jedi ever. She's literally been using the Force for about a week or maybe a week and a half and she's already taking on Kylo Ren and a bunch of those very well trained and deadly Praetorian guards. Anakin was an amazing Jedi and he had to train for years to get that good and it's a debated point among fans but I think Luke spent a decent amount of time on Dagobah in The Empire Strikes Back.

I always viewed the Jedi training as more of a process of unlearning than learning; you come into it with certain preconceptions of how the universe works, and the Jedi training deconstructs those preconceptions and rebuilds your understanding of the universe in a new way.

Anakin spent the first decade of his life in the regular world and Luke spent the first 19 years of his life in the regular world, so they both had a lot to unlearn. But Rey lived a very isolated existence on a very remote world with relatively few interactions with other sentient beings. So it makes sense to me that the unlearning process would be easier/faster for her.

He just recently said that he doesn't even know when the trilogy happens. I mean the time of the story in the star wars timeline.

Yes, my guess is that he's going to flesh out his idea into a story, and then Kiri Hart's story group will tell him where that story fits best into the chronology.

What I am saying is, when Han asks Maz where she got Luke's saber, it's clear that Abrams doesn't care. The answer isn't important to Abrams, just the mystery. He's said this about his work. It's not my opinion. That's how he makes a living. Not with answers but with questions (which is why episode 9 will be a challenge for him, because he's going to have to cough up some answers for a change). So that's why it's Abrams's fault. He thoughtlessly painted Johnson into a corner and left Johnson there without any paint to get out of it.

I'm with Abrams on this one. I just don't get why people think the story of how Luke's lightsaber came into Maz's possession is such a big deal. Even before The Last Jedi came out, I didn't expect additional followup on that plot point. For me, it was enough that it had come into Maz's possession. Given her resources and reach, it seemed plausible that it would. And the details were probably going to quite boring.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I don't even think the lightsaber thing was Abrams - I think that's a remnant of Michael Arndt's draft. His version of the film began with Luke's severed hand and the lightsaber floating in space, and the film would have devoted time to following how it made its way to our new protagonists. This is a stunningly awful idea and the film is better for Arndt's removal. I think Maz's comment about the lightsaber is merely the last remnant of Arndt's boneheaded idea.

 

[Edwin-S]

I wonder if Johnson already has a signed contract with Disney for this trilogy? If he does, it would be interesting to know how much it costs Disney to back out of the deal, considering TLG looks on track to be one of the lowest grossing Star Wars films ever.

 

[TravisR]

I'm with Abrams on this one. I just don't get why people think the story of how Luke's lightsaber came into Maz's possession is such a big deal. Even before The Last Jedi came out, I didn't expect additional followup on that plot point. For me, it was enough that it had come into Maz's possession. Given her resources and reach, it seemed plausible that it would. And the details were probably going to quite boring.

It's a question to me because the last time we saw the lightsaber, it was falling out of Cloud City and into a gas giant so it seems like something cool happened between that and it ending up in a box in Maz's castle. I can certainly imagine a mundane way that it got there (I'm sure she deals with scavengers and salvers all the time so someone could have simply found it and sold it to her). What piqued my interest about it in TFA is that she said it was a story "for another day" so it seems like there's a bigger story to be told. I'm not saying it's a pivotal moment in the saga but I want to find how it came into her possession. I'm sure in a minority but I'll be happy if the tale simply ends up in a comic book or a novel some day.

I wonder if Johnson already has a signed contract with Disney for this trilogy? If he does, it would be interesting to know how much it costs Disney to back out of the deal, considering TLG looks on track to be one of the lowest grossing Star Wars films ever.

It's made nearly $300 million in a week so if it 'only' makes $500 or $600 million, it will be in the top 10 highest grossing movies ever made. Even adjusting for inflation, it'll be behind the three OT movies (which were cultural phenomenons) and The Phantom Menace & The Force Awakens (which, whatever ones thinks about them, were insanely anticipated movies so they were always going to be massive hits).

 

[Edwin-S]

It's made nearly $300 million in a week so if it 'only' makes $500 or $600 million, it will be in the top 10 highest grossing movies ever made. Even adjusting for inflation, it'll be behind the three OT movies (which were cultural phenomenon) and The Phantom Menace & The Force Awakens (which, whatever ones thinks about them, were insanely anticipated movies so they were always going to be massive hits).

Whether it is in the top 10 highest grossing films made isn't the point. Its performance is going to be measured against the performance of the other SW movies. Right now, according to that article linked in the TLJ discussion thread, the audience hold of TLJ is the lowest of all nine films. Granted, it may get a bump once schools let out for the holidays, but right now it is on track to do no better than Rogue One.

Disney was counting on this film being a massive blockbuster with grosses approaching those of TFA. If TLJ "only" grosses 500 - 600 million, is Disney really going to continue with plans for a Rian Johnson directed trilogy?

 

[TravisR]

If TLJ "only" grosses 500 - 600 million, is Disney really going to continue with plans for a Rian Johnson directed trilogy?

Yes, definitely.

 

[Edwin-S]

Yes, definitely.

We'll see, but my bet is no. I do not see Disney handing 600+ million for a trilogy of an unknown quantity to someone who is garnering so much hate from fans.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Disney was counting on this film being a massive blockbuster with grosses approaching those of TFA.

They were? That's news to me. Almost every box office report I read expected it to open lower, which it did, but only off by -11% in the opening, which is an outstanding hold. I'm sure Disney understands that TFA was a rare cultural event and they are not expecting to do that again. I think they'd be thrilled if it places between Titanic and Avatar on the all-time domestic chart.

 

[SamT]

We have to wait to see how it does in the following weeks. But I was surprised by a family member that has no idea how many Star Wars movies are out there. He asked me "How is the new movie? I heard it's bad".

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I don't think the average moviegoer gives one wit about who the director is, unless that filmmaker constitutes a brand (like Hitchcock in the fifties or Spielberg today). Either Johnson's concept is one that Lucasfilm is confident will put butts in seats, or it isn't.

And it's not like The Last Jedi is some bomb. One week into its run, it's $75 million ahead of where Rogue One was after a week. Comparing the first week to The Force Awakens is apples-to-oranges, because the first week for The Force Awakens was Christmas week and most of the schools were closed. That's next week for The Last Jedi. If it has a decent hold this weekend -- say $80 million plus -- and the daily grosses next week stay in the high teens, then I think Disney/Lucasfilm is going to be more than happy with its performance.

 

[Edwin-S]

Like I said, I guess we'll see if Disney will risk a trilogy of films from a director whose movie's six day audience hold is already less than JUSTICE LEAGUE in the same period of time.

 

[Tino]

Like I said, I guess we'll see if Disney will risk a trilogy of films from a director whose movie's six day audience hold is already less than JUSTICE LEAGUE in the same period of time.

You’re putting way too much stock in that article. Let’s see where things shake out in the weeks ahead before we start predicting the ouster of Johnson ( which I’m sure will not happen).

 

[SamT]

Wasn't the announcement itself strange? They announced it way too soon before anything has been done. They never do that. They have several projects in development that they do not announce before they are well advanced.

 

[benbess]

They were? That's news to me. Almost every box office report I read expected it to open lower, which it did, but only off by -11% in the opening, which is an outstanding hold. I'm sure Disney understands that TFA was a rare cultural event and they are not expecting to do that again. I think they'd be thrilled if it places between Titanic and Avatar on the all-time domestic chart.

Agree.

But, just fyi....

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm


DOMESTIC GROSSES
Adjusted for Ticket Price Inflation*

Note: This chart only shows the top 300 movies, regardless of sorting.
Rank Title (click to view) Studio Adjusted Gross Unadjusted Gross Year^
1 Gone with the Wind MGM $1,804,258,500 $198,676,459 1939^
2 Star Wars Fox $1,590,608,000 $460,998,007 1977^
3 The Sound of Music Fox $1,271,769,300 $158,671,368 1965
4 E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial Uni. $1,266,759,200 $435,110,554 1982^
5 Titanic Par. $1,210,478,700 $659,363,944 1997^
6 The Ten Commandments Par. $1,169,830,000 $65,500,000 1956
7 Jaws Uni. $1,143,743,800 $260,000,000 1975
8 Doctor Zhivago MGM $1,108,529,600 $111,721,910 1965
9 The Exorcist WB $987,650,600 $232,906,145 1973^
10 Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs Dis. $973,370,000 $184,925,486 1937^
11 Star Wars: The Force Awakens BV $965,467,800 $936,662,225 2015
12 101 Dalmatians Dis. $892,261,100 $144,880,014 1961^
13 The Empire Strikes Back Fox $876,753,100 $290,475,067 1980^
14 Ben-Hur MGM $875,140,000 $74,000,000 1959
15 Avatar Fox $868,974,500 $760,507,625 2009^
16 Return of the Jedi Fox $839,950,500 $309,306,177 1983^
17 Jurassic Park Uni. $820,863,000 $402,453,882 1993^
18 Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace Fox $806,486,800 $474,544,677 1999^
19 The Lion King BV $796,077,500 $422,783,777 1994^
20 The Sting Uni. $796,045,700 $156,000,000 1973
21 Raiders of the Lost Ark Par. $790,544,200 $248,159,971 1981^
22 The Graduate AVCO $764,201,000 $104,945,305 1967^
23 Fantasia Dis. $741,578,200 $76,408,097 1941^
24 Jurassic World Uni. $705,909,400 $652,270,625 2015
25 The Godfather Par. $704,778,500 $134,966,411 1972^
26 Forrest Gump Par. $702,028,700 $330,252,182 1994^
27 Mary Poppins Dis. $698,163,600 $102,272,727 1964^