Need a new Computer! (1 Viewer)

[ManW_TheUncool]

My experience in this area is that Dell (and likely HP) uses OEM versions of add-on parts like video cards and soundcards, typically stripped down versions of their retail counterparts. I had ordered a custom-build Dell desktop several years ago and had them upgrade the soundcard to a "high-end" Creative Soundblaster that was supposed to have both Dolby and DTS chipsets. I found out, upon delivery, that the OEM version of that same soundcard did not include a DTS chipset. This was 20 years ago, but it is very likely that nothing has changed much in regard to OEM parts.

The main thing is they seem to use (and particularly cut corners on) the motherboard and maybe also the RAM (to some small extent)... plus probably the power supply -- probably more so w/ HP and some others than Dell. And yeah, you're probably more limited on whatever other add-ons/upgrades like GPU card... though you can usually buy that later/separately, except you'd need to make sure the motherboard and power supply (and available/installable cooling options) can handle it, especially if you want a very serious GPU card -- that's where one should probably either be happy w/ whichever Alienware option Dell offers or just go DIY instead.

Of course, none of those issues seem to apply to Crawdaddy for his use cases, so...

As I said earlier, the only real problem I've had w/ (the better) Dell machines over the years was the cheap, most basic optical drive failing fairly quickly (in well under a year), but I didn't really care about that... and it won't be an issue for Crawdaddy either now that it's not even an option anymore...

_Man_

 

[Todd Erwin]

@Robert Crawford - I would probably go with a mid-range CPU (a current gen i5 or AMD counterpart), but if you want to get more years out of your desktop, I'd go with the fastest i5 or entry-level i7. Intel's latest UHD graphics card is actually pretty decent, provided you have at least 16Gb of RAM (that would be the bare minimum that I would go with), and make sure that the motherboard has and supports dual monitors just in case you ever want to add a second monitor (the laptop we purchased two years ago was fuzzy about this in their specs, and it turned out that a second monitor was not supported, unless you included the laptop monitor as the first). A strong, powerful power supply is also a must. So many off-the-shelf desktops are underpowered these days. A dedicated SSD drive for OS and apps, a beefy HDD for data.

So, to summarize:
CPU: Current gen Intel i5 or AMD Razen 5
RAM: 16 Gb min
GPU: Intel UHD Graphics
Power Supply: nothing lower than 400w, preferably 450w min
SSD: 512Gb min
HDD: 2x 2TB in a RAID config (this will give you 2TB of data storage, with the second drive always mirroring the first drive)
The case should be roomy with adequate air flow and multiple fans if possible

 

[Todd Erwin]

The main thing is they seem to use (and particularly cut corners on) the motherboard and maybe also the RAM (to some small extent)... plus probably the power supply -- probably more so w/ HP

HP is notorious for using under-powered and proprietary power supplies in their desktop builds. When I was supporting a small office for their IT needs, the business owner was buying refurbed HP desktops like crazy. They would then typically fail about a year later, requiring a new power supply, only to find that HP had discontinued that particular power supply with no replacement part available and no after market power supply would work. I eventually persuaded him to buy newer desktops that were not HP or Dell for his office.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

The large multi-hospital healthcare system where I worked in IT for 27 years until retirement used Dell PCs for many years with success. I wasn't in charge of desktop support, but worked closely with the head of that group (I was in charge of data & voice networking). They moved from IBM to Dell many years ago and never looked back. The organization had thousands of desktops and laptops, and rotated them out on a regular basis (cannot remember how many years a desktop was used before refreshed).

That being said, my current home desktop (and previous one) have been refurbished HP towers, and both have been very reliable -- as has been my current HP laptop.. My wife has a refurbished HP all-in-one device (the CPU is attached to the back of the monitor), and it's been fine for several years, too.

All our devices are running Windows 10. I do not plan on upgrading any to Windows 11, as I rarely upgrade operating systems -- the upgrade happens when I get a new device. The only time I can remember upgrading the OS on an exisiting machine was a Windows Me PC, and I only did that because that OS was so unstable.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

All our devices are running Windows 10. I do not plan on upgrading any to Windows 11, as I rarely upgrade operating systems -- the upgrade happens when I get a new device. The only time I can remember upgrading the OS on an exisiting machine was a Windows Me PC, and I only did that because that OS was so unstable.

I also very rarely do major upgrades of OS and usually also delay/postpone the smaller updates as long as possible as well... unless there's clear/definite need/reason otherwise. I do likewise for other devices, including my phone, as I don't generally want to fix what ain't broke just to break something else instead, LOL -- yeah, I'm one of those IT devs who don't feel like trusting the work of most other IT devs too much, LOL...

_Man_

 

[Dick White]

Kids don't want their parents' junk

I understand that and it's a little sad. I not only have to get rid of my junk, but stuff of my parents that I wanted and kept. The kids may have to do that work because I want to hang on to most of it while I'm still alive. The DVDs are another matter. There are still some collectors around and I may try to sell/donate the majority of them. I couldn't live long enough to watch most of them, and only a handful are HD or UHD so I'm more likely to stream the movies than watch DVDs.

 

[Bobby Henderson]

With housing and rent prices rising to ever new ridiculous extremes it's only understandable many young adults would have zero interest in allowing anyone, even parents, to unload a bunch of stuff onto them. Living space is at a premium.

I'm sure this has to be a downward drag on home theater equipment sales. If someone has to settle for living in a small house or an apartment it's a lot easier to tuck a modest sound bar underneath a TV screen than it is to rig together a 7.2.4 Atmos-capable speaker and component setup. The same thing goes for storing many dozens or hundreds of music CDs and movies on DVD, Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray.

My movie disc buying habits dropped off to pretty much nothing over the past decade. There are two big reasons for me. I rarely see any new movies that I want to see more than once or twice. So why buy a copy if the package will do little more than waste space on a shelf? The second reason is so many movies on retail discs have very little effort put into them anymore. You get a plastic container with a disc inside and little else. The disc itself has little more than the movie on it. I don't feel like I'm missing anything by simply waiting for the movie to arrive on HBO or Netflix. 20+ years ago major studios put a lot of effort into retail DVD packages, such as the original 2-disc Fight Club DVD release. Today you only see decent efforts from third party companies (Criterion, Shout Factory, etc) re-releasing classic movies on disc.

Regarding Dell computers (and the supposedly cheap components put inside), I've had pretty good luck with their systems over the past 20 years. They've been pretty reliable and not difficult to service if issues arise. But I tend to buy at the higher end of the spectrum. I do not buy entry level PCs bloated with crap-ware, which is pretty much what you see in any brick and mortar retail store selling "home computers." I got 10 years of solid use out of my previous XPS 15 notebook before it started having some issues. 10 years of product life is not bad at all. My old Dell XPS work desktop PC was just about as old. It was still perfectly operational. But I had to replace it because its hardware just wasn't up to snuff for running the latest Adobe Creative Cloud applications and other current graphics software.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

With housing and rent prices rising to ever new ridiculous extremes it's only understandable many young adults would have zero interest in allowing anyone, even parents, to unload a bunch of stuff onto them. Living space is at a premium.

I'm sure this has to be a downward drag on home theater equipment sales. If someone has to settle for living in a small house or an apartment it's a lot easier to tuck a modest sound bar underneath a TV screen than it is to rig together a 7.2.4 Atmos-capable speaker and component setup. The same thing goes for storing many dozens or hundreds of music CDs and movies on DVD, Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray.

My movie disc buying habits dropped off to pretty much nothing over the past decade. There are two big reasons for me. I rarely see any new movies that I want to see more than once or twice. So why buy a copy if the package will do little more than waste space on a shelf? The second reason is so many movies on retail discs have very little effort put into them anymore. You get a plastic container with a disc inside and little else. The disc itself has little more than the movie on it. I don't feel like I'm missing anything by simply waiting for the movie to arrive on HBO or Netflix. 20+ years ago major studios put a lot of effort into retail DVD packages, such as the original 2-disc Fight Club DVD release. Today you only see decent efforts from third party companies (Criterion, Shout Factory, etc) re-releasing classic movies on disc.

Regarding Dell computers (and the supposedly cheap components put inside), I've had pretty good luck with their systems over the past 20 years. They've been pretty reliable and not difficult to service if issues arise. But I tend to buy at the higher end of the spectrum. I do not buy entry level PCs bloated with crap-ware, which is pretty much what you see in any brick and mortar retail store selling "home computers." I got 10 years of solid use out of my previous XPS 15 notebook before it started having some issues. 10 years of product life is not bad at all. My old Dell XPS work desktop PC was just about as old. It was still perfectly operational. But I had to replace it because its hardware just wasn't up to snuff for running the latest Adobe Creative Cloud applications and other current graphics software.

Agreed w/ much of what you say... although I still find value in buying some movies on disc (while others on iTunes)... but then again, I'm running them on a 120" PJ setup (from 10-to-10.5ft) w/ ~45-degree FOV. There are definitely noticeable gains over most streaming platforms/services... although the 4K streams on AppleTV/iTunes, Movies Anywhere and Disney+ are certainly very good. Even for my occasional viewing on my PC w/ a good 27" QHD monitor, which can actually come pretty close to the ~45-degree FOV, the diff is noticeable, especially for lower quality services like NetFlix and HBO Max. But sure, most avg people wouldn't care about the diffs, if they see them at all (on their likely lesser displays/setups).


But back on topic, LOL, yes, I too would recommend a Dell XPS machine since Crawdaddy isn't quite that concerned w/ sticking to something low budget. Probably whichever entry level XPS w/ latest/12th gen Intel Core i5 (but definitely make sure it's latest/12th gen... or maybe the higher end i5 or latest gen i7, if he wants to play it safer to cover next 7-10 years) w/ 16GB RAM and probably 500GB NVME M.2 SSD for the main (system/apps/basic docs) drive should do. He can always add additional bigger storage (whether internally or externally) later/separately more cheaply as he finds need -- external would be much simpler and much more convenient of course... though internal would perform better, if that's important, but probably not that necessary in his case.

Intel seems to have made some significant gains w/ this latest/12th gen especially for their Core i5 -- its variations apparently rival and/or outperform the previous gen i7 in many respects and even rival the previous gen i9 in some cases, so definitely makes an excellent value.

Here's probably a good option from Dell for $900 (w/ 16GB RAM and 512GB NVME M.2 SSD):

Dell XPS Desktop w/ i5 12400, 16GB (2x8) RAM, 512GB NVME M.2 SSD

Good to see Dell is now giving people an actual (cost-free) option between 1 and 2 RAM modules -- 2 yields somewhat better performance... though also somewhat more limiting on future upgradability potential, which may not matter to Crawdaddy.

Pricing for moving upto the i5 12600K or baseline i7 and/or adding an internal HDD seem fine, if desired. Presumably, Crawdaddy can just move his old license/installation of MS Office to the new machine -- probably no real need to have the latest or even that recent a version... and I'm still just using Office 2013 myself. But if he really needs, Amazon's currently cheaper than those OEM bundles anyway. Could also choose Win 11 Pro for the usual extra cost.

They do also offer optional DVD burner drive, but as I mentioned before, I don't trust their cheapy OEM optical drives. Probably better to just buy something else to add himself.

_Man_

PS: Weird that the Dell link doesn't work.

 

[John Dirk]

Too bad that's not a 15" or I'd jump for that one for my mother...

_Man_

This one is.

https://www.costco.com/lenovo-ideapad-3-15.6%22-touchscreen-laptop---amd-ryzen-5-5625u---1080p---windows-11---abyss-blue.product.100858028.html

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I think a key piece of information might be missing here, or if Robert mentioned it, I may have missed it:

Why are you replacing your old computer?

From what Robert’s said, it sounds like his primary uses include web browsing (including a lot of time at HTF), and watching YouTube videos.

Unless I’m mistaken, I’m surmising the reason Robert wants a new machine is that his ten year old one is no longer running as smoothly as it once did. My assumption is that he is not looking to start doing more advanced tasks now; in other words, he’s looking to replace a machine that has simply grown old, rather than looking to take on new and complex tasks that his current machine can’t handle.

If all those assumptions are correct, my opinion is that you guys may be overthinking this and providing options that are more complex and expensive than he’s likely to use. It sounds a little like trying to sell someone who’s looking for a car just to go to the grocery store on a Ferrari.

If the primary uses are email, HTF and YouTube surfing, I think pretty much any off the rack $500 PC sold by a big box store is going to fit that bill, and he’s going to see a tremendous improvement by virtue of it being ten years newer than what he has now. All this talk of custom builds, OEM parts, problems with Dell machines in enterprise settings, etc., to me seems to be muddying the waters and perhaps making this seem like a bigger purchase than it needs to be.

 

[Malcolm R]

If the primary uses are email, HTF and YouTube surfing, I think pretty much any off the rack $500 PC sold by a big box store is going to fit that bill,

Yes, this.

The only fly in the soup may be if you really need an optical drive and don't want to go the external drive route or do a self-upgrade.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Not that I disagree w/ your general sentiment, @Josh Steinberg, but if that's really the case and saving some $$$ would be better, then he might actually be best off just doing the free upgrade to Win 10 on his current machine (as some of us originally suggested), see how that performs and then go from there (and maybe wait another few years at least til MS stops supporting Win 10) instead, hehheh...

IF his current machine's been running Win 8.1 and whatever else he does just fine, it should likely run Win 10 just fine too...

I suspect it might really be just fine, especially if he can just upgrade the main drive, which might still be a 10-yo HDD, to an SSD and/or maybe increase the RAM perhaps, but he didn't want to bother w/ that.

The idea of spending more than just the minimum for a new PC was more about helping ensure it easily lasts him another 10 years-plus, not just be better than what he already currently has. Of course, how much better/longer/more future-proof will vary.

IF Costco has it in stock, this Dell Inspiron deal (at the discounted $500 mark) should likely also be fine enough, if somewhat less future-proof:

https://www.costco.com/dell-inspiron-desktop---12th-gen-intel-core-i5-12400---windows-11.product.100853478.html

Costco does often have excellent deals on such, including some higher end machines. And the XPS one (or very similar) I mentioned earlier could very well be discounted likewise at anytime over the next few months, so might be worthwhile waiting a bit for a sale instead of buying direct right now from Dell.

_Man_

 

[John Dirk]

If all those assumptions are correct, my opinion is that you guys may be overthinking this and providing options that are more complex and expensive than he’s likely to use. It sounds a little like trying to sell someone who’s looking for a car just to go to the grocery store on a Ferrari.

Again, guilty as charged. I admitted as much in post #53 but we're tech nerds. @Robert Crawford knew what to expect.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Again, guilty as charged. I admitted as much in post #53 but we're tech nerds. @Robert Crawford knew what to expect.

Many of us are guilty of such... but that probably goes w/ the territory on an enthusiast site, haha...

That would explain Crawdaddy possibly/seemingly bailing on us, LOL...

_Man_

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

Good to see Dell is now giving people an actual (cost-free) option between 1 and 2 RAM modules -- 2 yields somewhat better performance... though also somewhat more limiting on future upgradability potential, which may not matter to Crawdaddy.

PS: Weird that the Dell link doesn't work.

I was glad two of my recent used Dells came with 1 8GB DIMM, meaning I only had to add a second DIMM to get to 16GB.

I tried posting a direct link to a Dell system last week but it also defaulted to a "major" page. That's dumb - you want people to make suggestions to relatives and friends about what to buy.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Many of us are guilty of such... but that probably goes w/ the territory on an enthusiast site, haha...

That would explain Crawdaddy possibly/seemingly bailing on us, LOL...

_Man_

No, I'm still here! Just taking in all the suggestions and will make my final decision in the near future. I'm pretty sure what type of specs I want in my next desktop. However, I'm still deciding on whether I need a new monitor which I'm incline not to upgrade right now. The major decision is whether I go down Micro Center in Madison Heights or to my local BB for my purchase. There is little doubt I'm going to hire some professional to migrate all my stuff from old to new computer.

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

Your present monitor does HDMI, right?

 

[Robert Crawford]

Your present monitor does HDMI, right?

Yup! At 27" I'm pretty happy with it.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I think a key piece of information might be missing here, or if Robert mentioned it, I may have missed it:

Why are you replacing your old computer?

Computer going on 12 years old and still running Windows 8.1. Acting a little wonky so I figured it's time for a new model and Windows 11.

 

[John Dirk]

No, I'm still here! Just taking in all the suggestions and will make my final decision in the near future. I'm pretty sure what type of specs I want in my next desktop. However, I'm still deciding on whether I need a new monitor which I'm incline not to upgrade right now. The major decision is whether I go down Micro Center in Madison Heights or to my local BB for my purchase. There is little doubt I'm going to hire some professional to migrate all my stuff from old to new computer.

I'd make the trip to Micro Center. The guys and gals there are into computers like we're into Home Theater and will give you expert guidance throughout the process. Best Buy is a hit & miss experience at "best." Nailed it!