More than ever I understand why Plasma and any quality display is DOOMED (1 Viewer)

[Mark Cappelletty]

My father-in-law has the HD set they bought last year set to the highest motion-smoothing setting available. Christmas is going to be interesting this year when I shut it off while he's sleeping.

 

[Richard Gallagher]

I bought my 46" Panasonic Viera G15 series plasma display in 2009.

After 5+ years, burn-in has never been a problem for me. There have been a few occasions when I had some minor burn-in evident after leaving a film or show on freeze-frame for too long, but I have always been able to remove the burn-in by using the PixelProtector DVD screen wash for ten minutes or so. My set also has a pixel orbiter anti-image retention feature which apparently works, because watching non-widescreen films and TV shows has never caused a problem for me.

As for calibration discs, I'm sure that they are helpful but nothing substitutes for having a real ISO-certified calibration specialist calibrate your TV at least once. Gregg Loewen made adjustments with his equipment which I would never have been able to do with a calibration disc. He also gave me a fluorescent back light to throw a small amount of light on the wall behind the TV while the rest of the room is dark. It's amazing how it helps to eliminate eye fatigue.

Ron, while I understand your reluctance to criticize how your friends' new Vizios look, I would gently suggest to them that they will get the most out of their sets if they have them professionally calibrated. It sounds like they can well afford it.

BTW, my previous HD display was a Sharp Aquos LCD. That set had serious burn-in issues and the picture was dull compared to my Panny.

 

[schan1269]

I wonder who will be doing movie reviews once plasma start dying off...and OLED are still "off in the sunrise"...A movie review done from a LCD (TV or projector...unless an expensive projector) should be written on toilet paper.

 

[youworkmen]

My father-in-law has the HD set they bought last year set to the highest motion-smoothing setting available. Christmas is going to be interesting this year when I shut it off while he's sleeping.

That's one thing I don't understand . Why do the sets come with these things set to MAX when new.
It makes watching something made on film look like it was shot cheaply on tape.

The Panasonic has 2 that need switching off - Intelligent Frame Creation and Smooth Film.
The plasma I used for a few days was a Panasonic and it also had both of those switched to max when first opened.

 

[doug zdanivsky]

Part of the problem is of course that quality usually costs more

Or you're being tricked into believing as much, if speaker wire and liquor is any indication..

If the average person could see the difference of good vs. bad side-by-side... ah, who am I kidding, you would get the same results you witnessed.

You have to be a connoisseur and not just a bit of a snob to see and appreciate the difference.. Be it wine, electronics.. Less so with displays, I would think, as it's less subjective.. Good is good, right?

 

[Powell&Pressburger]

I only watch discs on my ZT plasma. My preference is to have the closest experience to film quality I can get at home and my tv meets those requirements. Plasma isn't for everyone and over the years I've hardly ever recommended them to anyone. I don't think other models are bad but they aren't how I want a movie to look. The tvs esp Plasmas were never really calibrated to show off how great they can make movies look in stores they always have some torched out TV next to one showing a film off badly yes it looks like it can burn your retinas out but grab the director or the cinematographer to check it out they cringe I'm sure. That motion smoother options are just horrible! Can you imagine what some children's grand children will be watching! there will always be some hardcore cinephiles left but I firmly believe with your basic TVs out in the market they have given too many image options to ruin how anything should authentically look and now everyone has brightened and boosted everything to death. There are times I wish I didn't care for high quality Tvs or BLU Ray discs but if I didn't I probably wouldn't watch movies at all.

 

[LeoA]

If I couldn't easily do dozens of hours watching 4:3 or Academy ratio content in-between full screen 16:9 material, I'd switch away from LCD for my HD display (I keep a beautiful SD Trinitron around as well).

But I have little doubt that the black pillarboxing would present problems after a while.

While a cheap LED looks like crap compared to a properly calibrated plasma display, it looks phenomenal when compared to the tube television that the consumer has grown accustomed to. When a customer has the opportunity to get a product that's better than anything that they have ever owned for $400, few will even take the time to compare the features on the $600 model.

I'll still take a nice CRT any day. They still can't be beat for things like blackness levels, contrast, response rate, motion blur, etc.

Other than weight/size and some geometry issues, it's still the superior technology as far as I'm concerned for picture quality.

 

[Persianimmortal]

Plasma actually beats CRT in every area. CRT black levels in particular were beaten by plasmas in the last few years. The thing is that CRT blacks being the best is a bit of a myth - when a CRT is displaying a pure black screen it has excellent black levels because nothing is lighting up the phosphors. But as soon as a CRT displays any scene with bright elements, stray light in the tube can affect darker areas. A plasma on the other hand has pixel-perfect control over dark and bright areas in a scene, and thus has better practical black levels and contrast.What saddens me no end is that within the last few years of its life plasma pretty much came closest to being the perfect display technology. It only died due to consumer ignorance.

 

[Keith Cobby]

LCD/LED televisions, even the newest 4K models, cannot handle motion as good as a plasma. If I had to pick one factor to decide which television to buy it would be how it displays grass, its colour and texture.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

I have to say that in the few days I was using a plasma it certainly didn't look like outside.I agree that you need a tv that can be adjusted which is why the plasma went back.I got it because I wanted a 3D set and Panasonic at that point only did 3D on plasma sets but when I was unable to adjust the contrast and brightness to levels I was happy with it had to go back.As I said , I assumed that my preference may not be reference but I was happy with that . However , the calibration disc I used surprised me by telling me my settings were perfectly fine.The Panasonic I have now seems to display black without a problem.Once I'd decided to try again buying 3D I tried a home cinema specialist aswell as a general electronic retailer . The latter made the mistake of having their single plasma side by side with an LED set . It was hard to see why anyone would go for the plasma .The specialist also was low on plasma but the Panasonic they had looked inferior even from a distance .I only have a 42" set but it does me . Its a Panasonic 3D smart tv and I'm very happy with the images . As Ronald says about his friends - that's what countsThe calibration disc does have separate sections for setting up plasma and LED so perhaps that's why it says my setup is ok

There are additional factors at play not being addressed.

A important one is are you calibrating for a brightly lit room or dimly lit viewing. Your brightness/contrast settings will vary greatly depending on this.

IF you're viewing in a brightly lit room, both settings will need to be higher than in medium or dimly lit environment.

Most people will probably need 2 different settings to accommodate their "normal" TV watching environment and a possibly dim/dark environment for movies and such, if they do the latter at all.

I do that myself for our 5-plus-yo Sammy LED-driven DLP RPTV... although most movies are watched on our new-ish (also DLP-based) front projection setup nowadays.

It's quite possible your normal viewing environment is bright enough to make plasma less desirable than LED LCD. However, HT enthusiasts generally do not target their ideal for the "normal" TV viewing environment, but for something much closer to a good, cinematic, theater experience, which usually means (very) dimly lit or even complete darkness, which is also where front projection can be the ideal -- you would never expect FP to compete w/ an LCD display for bright, contrasty quality in a normally lit, livingroom environment.

_Man_

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

That's one thing I don't understand . Why do the sets come with these things set to MAX when new.
It makes watching something made on film look like it was shot cheaply on tape.

The Panasonic has 2 that need switching off - Intelligent Frame Creation and Smooth Film.
The plasma I used for a few days was a Panasonic and it also had both of those switched to max when first opened.

It's all about marketing... and what the manufacturers and showroom floors believe will sell TVs.

That's also why TVs were usually set by default for a bright blue color temp w/ red and maybe even green push due to the showroom floor environment... although that situation seems to have improved some because even Best Buy will have dedicated, dimly lit areas to show off the higher end displays nowadays.

Ever notice certain displays designed/marketed for office use (ie. lower end computer monitors) tend to have serious green push on top of the blue color temp? Probably because they'll be used in brightly fluorescent lit office spaces. And as more and more people use energy saving, fluorescent bulbs at home, more displays targeted for home use may end up w/ some green push as well.

_Man_

 

[Jason Charlton]

And we have now come full circle...

My in-laws are staying with us for Thanksgiving - these are the same folks to which I was referring in this tale of plasma disdain from earlier in this thread:

About 3 or 4 years ago, my in-laws asked my opinion on what flat screen display they should get for their great room. I told them all about the virtues of plasma and how it would be the best option for them. They ignored me and got an LCD display that was horrible. Even they weren't happy with it after about a year. So they again asked my opinion, and I again suggested a plasma (at this point, the writing was on the wall about plasma's impending doom, and prices were dropping), but somehow they once again ended up with (or were talked into by a "salesperson") an LCD display - maybe the extra 5" was worth the $1k price premium they paid... picture still sucks, IMO.

So we're sitting in the family room watching football yesterday evening. My MIL turns to me and says, "Alan [her husband] and I were talking earlier and we're both so impressed with the picture you have on your TV. It's really nice. What kind of TV is this?"

"It's a plasma, Barb.", I exhale quietly.

 

[DaveF]

What were the final, best plasma TVs sold? (The Samsung F8500 and Panasonic ZT lines?) Can they be bought anywhere still?

I've got a family member who's moving next month, and his current plasma is likely being sold with the house). He wants to buy a plasma for the new place. I told him I'd get him the models to look out for, new or used (He's an avid CraigsList shopper.)

Thanks!

 

[Mike Frezon]

It's my understanding, Dave, that the Pannys are long done.

And the Sammy's are being cleared out right now. Your relative should act quick to get one (or take the pre-existing set with them!).

Crawdaddy just scored one.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Here's another pertinent thread.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Guys,

Even though I have my display, I still check everyday for the F8500 Samsung's availability and it doesn't look any will be available by January. Production on these displays have stopped, I wouldn't gamble to save a couple of hundred bucks.

 

[Edwin-S]

Yeah, but when I was buying my first set, I was told that plasmas were Evil, because they ate a higher power rate, their brighter contrast caused more burn-in problems, especially on screen-width bars, and in general were, quote, "the SUV's of home theater".

Evidently I'm a Middle American Dope, because I went with LCD/LED.

Which just goes to show the danger in taking other people's words at face value, instead trying it for yourself and making up your own mind. OTOH, a lot of people prefer the look of LCD/LED. My brother-in-law is one of those people; although, I think his preference boils down to LED/LCD having less issues with screen reflections which the D550 I gave them had plenty of, due to Samsungs use of a low quality anti-glare coating on the glass. I find I still prefer watching the plasma I gave them, even with the screen reflections. He also prefers a brighter picture, so he uses standard which, to me, makes the picture look too harsh.

 

[Thomas T]

We can't expect everyone to share our obsessions, passions and interests. If someone can easily afford a Mercedes or Rolls Royce, are we to chastise them for buying a Hyundai or Toyota? A car buff who has a passion for all things auto might but to some people a car is simply a vehicle to get them from point A to point B and a Hyundai will do that just as well as a Mercedes. A home theater enthusiast who is passionate about his hobby has to realize that to most people a TV monitor is simply something to watch football games, American Idol and rent or stream movies. They're not concerned with film grain vs.DNR, whether a film is improperly matted at 1.78 when it should be 1.66, whether a film has been mastered from a 2K vs. 4K source etc.

While we (the generic we) might cluck our tongues at how "Joe 6Pack" is ruining the potential acceptance for quality high end monitors in the marketplace by settling for "inferior" product, we have to realize that to some extent we are living in a cocoon, our own little universe. It's not the real world.

And everyone's eye is different, we don't all see something the same way. If it looks good to "them", that's the end of it. I must confess that very often if I didn't know a disc came out of a blu case, I'd swear it was a standard DVD because I see no difference.

 

[Everett S.]

LCD has higher profit margin.

Same thing with Beta vs. Vhs!!!

 

[Sky King]

Here's my two cents on this topic....FWIW.
I think its been mentioned in several other posts, but the general buying public is cheap, lazy and uninformed.
My first video recorder was a Sony Betamax. Yes the VHS format was cheaper, but it was very obvious the picture quality was far superior in the Betamax format. The general public bought into VHS because of the cheaper price, large amount of advertising and larger availabllity of VHS models and titles. Sony was to blame too, but that discussion is for another time. BTW...I still have an operating Betamax.
In 1991 I installed my first C/Ku Band satellite dish and still operate one today. The picture quality on a satellite feed via the large dish is far superior to the compressed crap you see on cable, Direct TV or Dish. Yet not too many people have it, the main reason...they're too lazy to perform the minor maintenance that is occasionally needed. To be honest and knock wood, I haven't had to do any real maintenance on my dish in about 5 years now. The HD satellite feeds are just outstanding and best of all its FREE !!!
My first plasma was a Panasonic 37 Inch EDTV in 2003. I couldn't afford the HDTV just then, but all in all the picture on that EDTV was far superior to the TV it replaced. Since then, I've bought two more Panasonic plasmas for other rooms and have been completely satisfied. I read about and viewed the competing formats LCD and LED before making additional plasma purchases, but found the plasma to be superior for what I wanted it for and have never been sorry for my decisions.
I guess it all boils down to how much of a fanatic one is with their viewing preferences.