Mid range Receiver or lower end seperates I can't decide..argh!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by EvanH, Feb 12, 2002.

  1. EvanH

    EvanH Extra

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    Ok, so it's definitely time to upgrade. I've got the Video where I want it with my soon to be ISF'd Toshiba 65H80 but my audio consists of a Sony STR-DE835 (yes I was poor and in college at the time) paired with an Energy Take 5 set of surround sound speakers.

    To make a long story shorter I was broken into and have some insurance money to play with so I was looking at a replacement receiver. At first I looked at the Onkyo 898 (a friend at work has the 797 and swears by it), Denon 3802, and Yamaha receivers. Then I saw the Sherwood Newcastle 963 being talked about and really like the looks, features, and other things I've heard about it. I was all ready to track this down when I heard rumblings about user interface issues so if I do decide to go that route I just have to wait for the hometheaterhifi.com review of it before I drop the $$$.

    In the meantime everyone started screaming about the new Outlaw 950 pre/pro and how it's so amazing at any price...but more importantly at MY price. Which got me thinking about amps and seperates and it looks like if I stretch the bank a bit I can get the Outlaw 950 (even though it's the ugliest looking thing in the world) and be able to spend somewhere's in the range of $1500 for an amp.

    SOOOOOO...my question...do I stick with a midrange $1500 to $2000 receiver, or go Outlaw 950 with a $1500 amp AND if so what amp would be best...so far I know so little about them the only thing I've seen in my price range is the Anthem PVA-7.

    Any and all comments and suggestions are welcome.

    Oh...and yes I need new speakers but that'll come later.

    Evan
     
  2. Sankar

    Sankar Second Unit

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    I'd say go the separates route ...

    You should be able to get a very good price on used amps .. amps like the AT1505 or Anthem MCA-5 can be had used under $1000 delivered .. add a second 2 channel amp (maybe for the rears) for a total under $1500. This will give you a killer system that will give any receiver a run for its money.
     
  3. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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  4. Graham Perks

    Graham Perks Second Unit

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    I'd get a good receiver (the Denon 3802 would be an excellent choice from all reports). You save some bucks from going the separates route, which might have given you a slightly better sound or additional flexibility.

    Now the really good part. You take the $$$ saved and do much better on sound-quality-per-dollar, by putting that money into the speakers you say you will need! You will get a much more obvious improvement through $$$ in better speakers than you would in component $$$!

    Take the time and fun to audition, and buy yourself some really great speakers!
     
  5. TheLongshot

    TheLongshot Producer

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    The advantage of going the receiver route is that you can eventually use it as a pre/pro for an amp eventually, then replace the receiver with a dedicated pre/pro later.

    The next upgrade for me might be an amp of some sort.

    Course, if you can afford a pre/pro and an amp, it may be the way to go. As the previous poster noted, Speakers are perhaps more important.

    Jason
     
  6. EricK

    EricK Second Unit

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    I would go for a Denon 4802 rather then a 3802. You get the better remote, and most importantly more flexibility using the DSP's, dts, and Dolby than the 3802. THX Ultra rated and finally superior Sharc DAC's. You could probably pick one of these up for around 2000-2200 street $.

    In addition you could use the 4802 as a pre/pro later on if you chose in the future as Jason related in the prior post.

    Good luck!

    Eric.
     
  7. george king

    george king Supporting Actor

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    Go separates. After adding an amp to my Yamaha 995 (used as a preamp now), all I can say is WOW!!

    Here would be my suggestion

    Outlaw 950 as preamp.

    Amps

    Rotel 1075 (which I have and love)

    Parasound used or new

    Anthem (alot of people really like this amp)

    Sherbourn

    Hope this helps.
     
  8. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  9. Sankar

    Sankar Second Unit

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    I myself started with a Denon 2700 which I then upgraded to the Denon 3801. Subsequently, I added external amplification and now use the 3801 only as a pre.

    At each stage of the upgrade I felt that there was a definite improvement. I am now looking to get the 950 and suspect that there will be another big improvement (based on RAF's point that the 950 sounds better than the 5700, which definitely is better than the 3801). Hence I very much doubt that going the 3802 or 4802 route will provide better sound than the 950 + external amps.

    If you are not running into budget/liquidity constraints, then it appears to be a no-brainer -- why get a receiver now only to upgrade to external amps later? You will spend more at the end (since you would have to sell the receiver at a discount) anyways. The 950 + used amps can be done for around $2500. Of course, a 3802 under $1000 is cheaper, but we are in completely different ball parks now.

    The 4802 will cost you marginally less (does the 4802 have 7 channels of amplification?), but I doubt that it will be any better than the 950 + amp option.

    The 5802 is more expensive, and I do not know how the quality compares to the 950 option.
     
  10. EvanH

    EvanH Extra

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    Ok thanks for all the input everybody. I think I'm leaning toward the Outlaw 950 (any idea when these will be available for purchase?) and the Anthem PVA-7 as my amp. When I do upgrade my speakers I'm leaning heavily toward the Paradigm Monitor 11's or even the Studio 60's.
    But now I'm realizing that this is all canadian equipment that isn't readily available over the internet and I am soooo not impressed with our selection of hifi shops in columbus, oh. Soooooo...where would I purchase the Anthem PVA-7 and Paradigm speakers? If I had to I could take a little gambling trip up to Windsor and purchase the equipment in canada...but gambling means spending more money [​IMG]
    Thanks again
    Evan
     
  11. John Tompkins

    John Tompkins Supporting Actor

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    EvanH, I didnt see mention in your post as to whether you had to have dplII, 7 channel setup etc ? If you dont need or have room for a 7 channel setup..I would go for a nice sounding pre-pro like the Sherwood, HK or something similar..You can buy the Sherwood pre for 400.00 new!! My fellow technician at work just bought it along with the sherwood amps {that I have alreay raved about} mated to Klipsch speakers and he LOVES it..Total cost 1200.00 and thats with two sherwood amps!

    If you want or need a 7 channel setup, I would agree that it looks like the outlaw at 899.00 would be hard to beat for the money. You can EASILY pickup a good used 5 channel amp for 400.00-800 dollars..marantz mm9000, HK 2.1, sherwood 9080, HK 5800, Acurus 5x125, older carver 705 and on and on

    If you get a reciever, ANY reciever I would say, make sure to get a seperate amp..as the amps in my denon 4802 which are considered good reciever amps, pale in comparision to even a used 400.00 seperate amp..hope this helps
     
  12. EvanH

    EvanH Extra

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    Thanks for the suggestion...that's probably what I SHOULD do...but danged if I'm not a sucker for all the new bells and whistles out there. If I'm going to be dropping a decent sum of cash I feel like I should jump for the latest and greatest so that I can take advantage of it in the future...if not now. So yes while I probably don't need, and really don't have room for a 7 channel setup I'll probably use the other two channels to power speakers in another room. If I ever wake up and realize I don't need to spend all this cash, I'll definitely go the route you suggest...but in the mean time anyone know a good place to get the 7.1 equipment I'm looking at? Thanks

    Evan
     
  13. EricK

    EricK Second Unit

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  14. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Eric- Something is amiss in your statement. [​IMG]
    The Sony TA-E9000ES pre amp has been out for over 3 yrs, and has 32 bit SHARCs.
     
  15. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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    Perhaps this is obvious to everyone, though I didn't know about it until I read it here, but don't you need a separate, dedicated (20amp?) circuit if you get an amplifier? I don't know if that would be a concern to you but, if true, it would be one for me.
     
  16. EricK

    EricK Second Unit

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    Kevin :

    OOPS...thanks for spotting my booboo..I was half asleep writing that post last night!.

    Eric.
     
  17. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    Marvin,

    No, that's just for some very powerful and unusual amps. In general amps plug into a good ol' three prong. However, do not I reapeat do not plug an amp into a switched output on the back of a pre/pro or receiver.
     
  18. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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    Thanks Philip. Glad to hear that.
     
  19. EvanH

    EvanH Extra

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    So if I didn't go 7ch to start out with, what would you think of the B&K AV6000 6ch amp, Parasound HCA-1205a OR 1206, Chiro C500, or ATI 1505?

    Evan
     
  20. EricHaas

    EricHaas Supporting Actor

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    EvanH:

    I presume you are planning on upgrading your speakers relatively soon. Before you mentioned your speaker upgrade options, I was scratching my head about the concept of pairing up $1500+ in electronics with a $600 speaker set. Maybe it is because I am more of a "loudspeaker guy" than an "electronics guy." I still remain uncertain as to where I fall regarding the whole separates vs. receiver controversy and how much difference it makes in sound. But I am *very* skeptical regarding how much difference you will hear with a budget speaker system like that. Even with the Paradigm Monitor line, I would be hesitant to recommend anything more pricey than the Denon 3802. Since you are considering some nice electronics though, I would recommend the following assuming Paradigm is what you are looking into. 1) supress your gambling urge and make the trip to Canada; it is worth it for the 25-30% savings; 2) look into the Reference line rather than the Monitor line if you are spending $1500+ on electronics. Beyond that, you'll have to read through the excellent advice already offered here for what to do about your electronics.
     

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