Mad Men - Season 4 (1 Viewer)

[Michael Reuben]

Originally Posted by mattCR /forum/thread/302487/mad-men-season-4/90#post_3740841

 

[mattCR]

Oh, Don's a likable asshole, but he's still an asshole.


Not as much as Betty, though.. wow have they made that character a total prat

 

[Michael Reuben]

One of the interesting things this season is how the Draper divorce brought out the worst in both partners. Over the course of 13 episodes, Don has found outlets for the bitterness, frustration and every other bad feeling that the split left him with. But Betty hasn't. You can see it all just swirling around inside her (which is why Sally's shrink wanted her to see someone). I took that as a comment by Weiner & Co. on a difference between gender roles in marriages of that era, because women like Joan and Peggy have other places to direct their energies (Joan's closing observations notwithstanding). But Betty rushed into another traditional marriage, and the problems haven't gone away.


I do hope they have a different idea for the next season, but I imagine it's difficult to devote much time to Betty's storyline when she's no longer married to Don and the show is still called Mad Men.

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

I don't know wha thappened to make one think criticizing Don Draper doesn't go over well, but I for one would like to hear the opinions and observations unobscured by acceptability. It's subjective. All don't have to agree. Besides, I learn the most when exposed to ideas I initially disagree with.


Anyway, it was definitely strange to see Don go all in on Megan, but I was happy for him at the same time. I also asked myself "Why not doc?" Yes, things with Doc always seemed so... antiseptic, whereas things with Megan always seemed so... warm. It's unfortunate, because I don't think there was anything wrong with Doc, and she helped Don a ton -- personally and professionally.


Sometimes, though, it's just organic. There's no explanation other than, "I clicked better with Megan."


I liked the episode and thought there were a lot of good things in it. We saw kids saying goodbye, and wanting to stay in touch. I don't know how it is with e-mail and facebook, etc. these days, but when I was a kid, staying in touch never worked out. It seems proximity has a lot to do with forming and maintaining friendships. The little boy may indeed be able to drive in a few years, but it's quite probable both he and Sally will be well over each other by then.


I didn't totally understand Peggy's disappointment in Don's engagement. It was a reasonable reaction (people react that way), but I didn't exactly get how it affected her.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco


I didn't totally understand Peggy's disappointment in Don's engagement. It was a reasonable reaction (people react that way), but I didn't exactly get how it affected her.

It's the second time a secretary of Don's has married a partner. More fuss gets made over that (in a positive way) than when one of Don's secretaries (namely, Peggy) gets made a copywriter -- and arguably that the bigger deal.


Also, Peggy just brought in the first piece of business since the Lucky Strike fiasco. She's absolutely right that, as far as the agency is concerned, that's bigger news than Don's engagement.

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

Perhaps, but it's not a competition. There's no reason there can't be two pieces of good news, both appreciated by everyone around. Don expressed excitement over the new account. I'm not sure he'd have expressed any more excitement if he didn't have happy news of his own. If fact, if they caught Don at the wrong moment and tried to make too much of it, he might just say, "That's what you're expected to do... That's your job." I think we all can see Don saying that (even with the company on life support).


Also, in a small office where you hope people are somewhat invested in each other's personal happiness, I'd argue that a senior partner choosing someone to spend the rest of his life with is just as big as the news of a new account. As one of the guys in the show said, accounts come and go. Don (and the company) has been through many such acquisitions. Hopefully a life partner is forever.


There's nothing about Peggy's reaction I thought was wrong. It felt right. It felt like something someone in her position would do. It's just that I'd ask the same questions in that situation. I would have understood it better when Roger married a secretary, totally passing over Joan, who has been there for him emotionally and sexually for years. I could totally see her feeling, "I'm good enough to be everything except his wife." As it turns out, she may have dodged a bullet in that one as marrying him would have only led to a babysitting job as he accelerates on his downward spiral into irrelevancy.


I thought at one point Peggy's reaction is tied to what it takes for her to succeed at life versus what it takes for some other women to succeed at life. That's underlined a bit when Joan says, "That's the way it is for some people." Joan goes on to make her comment about not deriving all your satisfaction from work. When Peggy says, "That's BS," should could either mean that response is just Joan's coping mechanism, or she could mean, "The answer to being underappreciated is to get satisfaction elsewhere? I think not."


Anyway, as I said... I didn't think Peggy's reaction is wrong, I just don't really understand why the engagement announcement bothered her.


A good episode to end a good season. I look forward to continued viewing.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Who thought the proposal was a dream sequence initially?

 

[Michael Reuben]

Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco /forum/thread/302487/mad-men-season-4/120#post_3740967

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by mattCR

Who thought the proposal was a dream sequence initially?

I did.

 

[Garrett Adams]

I felt Don telling his children he was the Dick written on the wall was a powerful moment.in his evolution. Line of the night was: "Yes they're bigger."

 

[Quentin]

I think the juxtaposition of Don's announcement of his engagement to Peggy's announcement of a new client was a purposeful look at one of the main themes of this episode: work life vs. home life.


Don has ALWAYS been all about his work (with the exception of his bohemian escape time). His very essence and identity revolve around it. This episode saw a change. He saw a family life he was actually HAPPY about and he went all in. Announcing something like that at work is something Don would never do. But, he is happy now to announce it. Cosgrove was proud to announce to them that he has a life other than work and he was unwilling to mix them. Don is now headed toward creating a non-work life and identity he is happy with.


Meanwhile, we saw Peggy very much capitalize on a personal visit and turn it into a work opportunity. She is the next Don. Her life and identity are all about work.


Her frustration with Don's announcement getting as much attention as hers is a sign that she places work above all else...and so did her mentor at one time.

 

[Chris Brunner]

Originally Posted by Patrick Sun

Who thought the proposal was a dream sequence initially?

Funny, I did too.

 

[adamfarren]

I know I'm a little late here...but what stuck out most to me was the scene where Betty was alone in the house, with the boxes, right before Don came in? And she's doing her makeup, and kind of sniffs a couple times, and wipes her nose, and then leans on the counter to steady herself?


Looked to me like the writers were implying that she had been doing drugs. If so this could be a big storyline next season...as well as a catalyst of her erratic and increasingly, very bitchy behavior as mentioned above in Season 4.


Anybody else notice that in the scene?

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by adamfarren

I know I'm a little late here...but what stuck out most to me was the scene where Betty was alone in the house, with the boxes, right before Don came in? And she's doing her makeup, and kind of sniffs a couple times, and wipes her nose, and then leans on the counter to steady herself?


Looked to me like the writers were implying that she had been doing drugs. If so this could be a big storyline next season...as well as a catalyst of her erratic and increasingly, very bitchy behavior as mentioned above in Season 4.


Anybody else notice that in the scene?

I didn't take it as all a drug reference, far more a "this is what I'm giving up" and her being afraid of it.

 

[Jason_V]

Originally Posted by mattCR
I didn't take it as all a drug reference, far more a "this is what I'm giving up" and her being afraid of it.

That's what I got out of it also. A small acknowledgment of Betty still being a "real person" and not a heartless bitch she has been all year. I liked that scene, too, since it was one of the few she and Don have shared in the season that didn't involve high drama. Short, sweet, uncomplicated.

Though if it was coke, I wouldn't be shocked. She makes a lot of her own trouble...but the poor woman can't catch a break, either.

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

I felt like she was going to "connect" in some way with Don until he mentioned he's engaged. The grass isn't necessarily greener, and she was looking for some old comfort at that point. Not that I wish her ill, but thank goodness Don was over it.

 

[Nelson Au]

Wow, I just finished watching the 4th season on blu ray, my main method to see the series. Oh man, I guess I have to wait another 8 months or so to see the 5th. Another great season. And I've finally read over this thread. There's one thing I didn't see any comments about, the creepy kid who hangs around Sally. For probably 90% of the episodes, I've watched them a second time with Matt Weiner's commentary. It's interesting, and I think I picked this up in the early season's how the kid had a thing for Betty. And then later, when she rejected him, he goes after Sally. Weiner's commentary discusses this as one of the reason's Betty's got such a problem with him and Sally being friends. She knows what the kid is all about. And then in turn firing Carla! That wasn't necessary. But I guess I can see Weiner's point to that in the commentary. The kid certainly can understand what's going on as he's a kid of divorced parents. And about the cost of the Mustang. Yes, they were on average, $2,500 brand new. My Dad bought a new 1967 coupe, which I still own. I doubt he remembers the cost of it. Regarding Tomorrowland and the sudden engagement to Megan, of course we saw that coming in the earlier episodes. Especially the scene when Megan catches Sally and comforts her after she ran away to SDCP. Don saw something in her and then the glances towards her later on. You can see his mind working, he's thinking she's got something that Faye doesn't. Too bad for Faye, but Faye is like him, devoted to the job. But the sequence with Cosgrove as Campbell, Sterling and Don try to get his future father in-law to help them get an in at Dow, and his refusal because he didn't mix work and homelife, you could see Don realizing that he can have a life outside work. As Don says to Megan during his proposal to her, that so many circumstances had occurred to bring them together. It made sense how they set that up. Poor Peggy, her triumphant acquisition of a new client gets a second seat to Don's announcement. I was at first kind of confused by her reaction to Don's news. Was she jealous? Was she mad because her news wasn't as important to Don's? Was she hoping to win Don's heart? (given that night he spent with her on the Samsonite account?) I think she was more disappointed that her new client news was overshadowed by Don's news. And that another partner at SCDP marries his secretary. This is the 60's. Looks like Betty was really crushed in the end in her last ditch attempt at some comfort from Don in the kitchen of the house they once shared given her deteriorating marriage to Francis. I think in the 5th season, she may buck up and re-engage in her marriage now that Don has moved on. Or it's the same old. I hope not. And I suspect that Don got what he needed in Megan. Despite that last ominous shot of him lying awake and looking out the window, the future seems bright. Maybe I'll que up the first season and watch the series all over again. It will seem strange to go back to 1960 now that we are closing 1965. BTW, I was sort of hoping to see more of the turbulent events from the 1960's be part of the show. While they are, they don't take center stage, it's more about how they are there as part of their lives. The JFK assassination, The Beatles, the Mustang. I wonder if the series goes in 1969, we see more of the influence of British rock and the drug culture on Peggy. Or will Don grow long hair and be diggin' the times! Oh yes, do you think Cooper really quit the firm? I don't think so. And as Faye said to Don, he has to let go of his past to start moving on. Looks like he took her advise. He seems to be owning up to Dick Whitman. When Sally asked who Dick was, he told them the truth, as much as he could. And the engagement ring to Megan, at first he lies about it as a family heirloom, but then says it was from his close friend. So again, he's telling her the truth.

 

[Patrick Sun]

At least know that there are 3 more seasons of Mad Men to come.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks Pat. Seems this series is best during the decade of the 60's. I can imagine it end on the eve of 1970 or so. And I see the 5th season start was delayed. A longer wait till the blu ray comes out!

 

[TravisR]

And I see the 5th season start was delayed. A longer wait till the blu ray comes out!

Yeah, the Blu-ray probably won't be out until the end of 2012 or so. Better hope that Mayan calendar is wrong.