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Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jorge Rod, Aug 23, 2002.
I need around 250 feet of WHITE 12 gauge speaker cable. Any suggestions?
IXOS might offer some white thicker AWG wire for you...... see www.accessories4less.com
This is not for a 125' run is it?
No, it is to run 5 speakers, plus some extra cable just in case.
well then accessories4less or partsexpress.com ought to have what you're looking for in a 14 or 12 gauge. some of the stuff is paintable if that's a concern for you.
You may also wish to look at http://www.jscwire.com/. I know their 4x16 Hi-strand stuff makes very decent speaker cable and I have some that I will use in my basement and it is white and they have thicker gauges too, incl. 12.
Red part numbers indicate non-stocking items. Please contact JSC for minimum quantities.
No. Conductor AWG (Strand) Insulation Nominal Wall Jacket Nominal Wall No. of Cond. Nominal O.D. Product
5980 18 (41/34) .012 .035 2 .198 Display
5982 18 (41/34) .012 .035 4 .213 Display
5984 16 (65/34) .012 .035 2 .220 Display
5986 16 (65/34) .012 .035 4 .237 Display
5988 14 (41/30) .012 .035 2 .257 Display
5990 14 (41/30) .012 .035 4 .278 Display
5992 12 (65/30) .012 .035 2 .298 Display
5994 12 (65/30) .012 .035 4 .324 Display
Bare Copper Conductors
SR PVC Insulation
Flame Retardant White PVC Jacket
Any recommendations on 12 gauge? My Home Depot wire oxidized on me and I need to replace it. Is the IXOS stuff on a4less.com any good? Of course price is a concern since I need about 150 ft myself (250 if I biwire the fronts).
Your cable didn't oxidize. Oxidation is rust, and cable doesn't rust inside the insulation unless something major is wrong. Cable doesn't oxidize when in a good tight connection unless you have some major moisture issues. What you're seeing is some of the excess chemicals in the PVC reacting with the copper. This won't cause any signal degredation. Alot of people think higher end cables don't do this, but they do... it's just that alot of higer end companies found that they can hide this by adding a color tint to the insulation.
Just something to keep in mind.
Unfortunately, appearance-wise, this happens with copper that's in contact with PVC and the rapidity of it depends on a bunch of factors...heat, humidity, exposure to light, etc. I rec'd this reply from Carol, the maker of HD's wire, but it's generally applicable to any wire that has PVC as an insulator...
Thanks for the responses, but perhaps it was a quality control issue. I saw pictures around the web showing the green discoloration, and although there was little instances of green that showed throughout my HD Carol wire (I've had it for about 9 mos.), that did not concern me. Instead, upon closer inspection, you could actually see the copper strands inside stripping away. Stephen, I guess it could be rust, but different parts of the cable appeared to be losing strands and unraveling inside the insulation.
What brought my attention to this phenomenon was in fact my speakers. Running from my Denon 3802, I noticed in that in the recent month I had to push my Paradigms harder and harder to achieve the same volume levels as a month or two ago. I verified a 2-3 db decrease with my SPL meter, which was too minimal to be conclusive. So I had the receiver checked out, but it was when I was unhooking the speaker wire from it I noticed the stripping inside insulation.
After my receiver checked out, I discarded the "defective" wire and sold the rest of it (which came from a seperate spool at HD - perfectly fine) to my friend. Which has led me to this point. I wholeheartedly do not believe in boutique or expensive cables, and I'm quite sure that I just bought from a defective spool. I'm hesitant to replace it with the same stuff of course, and I was considering the Sound King stuff from partsexpress when I came across the white IXOS 603 13 gauge (why 13? odd number) at a4less for $.49 per foot. I did recently buy some Studio ADP dipoles, so white would make it easy to run along the wall without having to buy additional Wiremold. Anyways, sorry for the long post but I guess I've been put in a peculiar situation. Any recommendations would be helpful (if you support the HD stuff, please state so - I could give it another try)
-"wireless" and confused
well your post suggests that you had to crank up the knob on the receiver significantly in order to achieve the same volume from your speakers, the implication being that the wires in some way may've been responsible for it. it's a highly unlikely situation and the best way to determine if your speakers were getting less power is not by use of an SPL, but to run something like a test tone, white or pink noise off a cd, pick an arbitrary setting on your receiver and measure the voltage at the end of the wires using a decent digital VOM. That you'd have had to have done then and now. its hard to say why you perceive your speakers are less loud now as opposed to some time in the past. changes in their positioning, any changes you made to your room, the layout of items within the room...they all play a not-insignificant role.
regarding the IXOS, who knows why they picked 13 gauge?! an ominous number for those concerned about the number 13 though! in any event, the difference between that and 12 is insignificant.
any wire that uses pvc, be it clear, colored, opaque, will in time become green from surface reaction with chloride from unreacted vinyl chloride. now this surface phenomena will not occur using other insulating materials such as teflon but that's not to say that teflon, although inert, is not fully capable of being gas-permeable.
Thanks Chu, I'll have to keep the digital VOM in mind for the future. As for the IXOS, after looking, I found that all of their speaker wire is odd in gauge (11,13,15...) - perhaps it is their marketing attempt to stand out in the crowd.
Anyways, the price seems right, so I'll give the IXOS a try. I appreciate your advice on biwiring (it has always just been a curiosity), and thanks again for your help.
Just to put my 2 cents worth in. I have seen a few posts that could be miss leading. So I wanted to clear them up. The green that you see on the outside of the cable is due to air. When copper oxidizes it turns green. Oxidization however is not rust. But Rust is a form of oxidization, rust is the common term for Iron that has oxidized (Iron oxide). If the cable jacket contains air, or if the jacket is has gaps of air it will oxidize. It's that simple. As Chu has stated there are many compounds that prevent oxidization, and many companies that sell jackets that prevent this from occurring.
Not to be nit-picky Ben but...oh hell, it is being nit-picky
Copper can exist as the metal and in the +1 and +2 oxidation state forming the following two compounds:
Cu2O (cuprous oxide) reddish in color
CuO (cupric oxide) black in color
(check out your pennies)
With regards to reaction with chloride, again two compounds can be formed:
CuCl (cuprous chloride)
CuCl2 (cupric chloride)
Depending upon whether there are other compounds present (water, ammonia, hydroxide, oxides, etc.) colors can range from green to blue, shades in between etc.
Well stated, however I was speaking to just the grean reaction that was mentioned in the above posts.
Just kidding guys, of course ;^) , but does one need to consult the Table of Elements chart before one buys ABC zip cord ?
I remember that wacked-out parchment - 8' wide colored chart hanging off the wall in grade school science class. Very ominous, it was. My science teacher (Elmer Allen) never did take kindly to spitballs peppering that chart. Oh, well.
One gets what one pays for..... in most, if not all cases.
James..... how do you like that BetterCables Ultra Video cable ? Let me know, as I did not hear back from you after shipping.
BTW, I use IXOS 6003 braid (13AWG)for my surrounds. Very flexible, rather inexpensive, and I was able to to terminate it with my own spades (Ixos spades to be exact). It does the job for surround duties. I bought the purple/black weave as it was a close match to my wine colored rug. No kidding. Should I inspect this stuff for discolored cooper ?
Bumping, because I need the same info:
I checked the above links, but I didn't see where any of them carried the white 12-gauge. Does anybody have any ideas?
Checking at General Cable's website (the company that manufactures Carol Cable), they do make what I'm looking for. It's product number C1363.41.02. The only problem is, they only sell it in spools of 1000 feet... that's way more than I need. Does anybody know where I could find a retailer who either carries or could order about 150 ft.?
You might want to post a WTB (in the Harware Forum) asking for the length and specs of the wire you want.
Perhaps someone has a half spool laying around. Worth a shot, as it beats having to buy 1000'.
How does 165' of 11 gauge white work for you at around $80?
Intriguing very flat wires which could be painted or spackled over can be seen over at www.decorp.com although they're a bit pricier however damn that stuff is thin!
Monster puts out a Navajo White Speaker Cable which ought to run you about $0.60 or so a foot. They've got a flat version that's about a nickel more although I don't know if it's sold off a large spool. Don't know the gauge but you can find it everywhere, probably ebay too. An example of a source is www.800stereo.com
Knock yourself out.