iTunes, Apple ultimately in trouble? (1 Viewer)

[Patrick Larkin]

Apple makes a desktop machine for $799 and a laptop for $1099. They both include options not found in a cheap PC.

Using the G5 as a measuring stick is ludicrous. First of all, its a 64-bit processor. Its case isn't matched by anyone. It has Firewire 800, gigabit ethernet, Serial ATAPCI-X,, DDR400 RAM, and 1GHz frontside bus. The G5 is a worskstation class machine only meant for power users.

From Infoworld - hardly an Apple publication:

For the work I do, the Intel x86/Windows platform has fallen out of step with my requirements. I need my desktops to move and process multiple mountains of data, located in various places inside and outside the system, while maintaining a smooth, rich, and responsive user interface. I expect that from clients and servers. In the months I’ve worked with the Power Mac G5, I’ve found that the hardware, Panther OS, and the quite remarkable Xcode development environment form an ideal combination of usability and performance. It’s the ideal Mac; Intel’s Xeon simply can’t compete. If Apple wants a competing architecture to worry about, it should set its sights on Opteron. Apple should continue to make hay while Microsoft and Sun adapt their commercial operating systems to the AMD64 architecture.

 

[Scott H]

Huh? They were selling iMacs for as low as $600, new from Apple. Now with LCDs and superior procs they are a bit more. There's an eMac G4/800 128/40/CD/100BT 17-inch CRT for $529 at the Apple store right now.

I am laying on my back (watching the Packers game) typing this on an iBook G3 933MHz, 12", 40GB, 256MB, Airport card, DVD/CD Combo drive that we bought brand new (not refurb), including Mac OS X Panther, three weks ago from an authorized dealer for $699

Perhaps you are not up-to-date on the Apple product line and pricing.

 

[Scott H]

I should add that almost every one of my Linux using friends are now running on Apple hardware. Linux on PowerPC has become very popular. And a big part of IBMs future.

My close friend, who professionally administered NT networks, and then went on to become somewhat of a Linux guru, and is employed as such, and who has bitched about the cost of Apple computers and the flaws of the OS for over a decade, now uses a new iBook as his portable, an iMac for his children, praises OS X on every level, and refers to the G5 line as a remarkable value.

Apple cost issues have become a non-issue over the last few years. It's absurd to compare a G5 to what you can get a cheap PC for, or build your own. The infamous auto analogies are appropriate, BMWs offer a different user experience, aesthetic, and quality of engineering than a Chevy. BMW (and incidentally, Mercedes) each have about the same market share that Apple does. These companies make products that are (thankfully) not mainstream, and in relatively low volume, and the pricing reflects that.

 

[David_Stein]

i think the computer industry will be fun to follow in the coming years. as people have said, apple has really changed their pricing to be much more inline with pc prices. os9 was a horrible product and they were really playing catchup with osx (catching up to xp), but it is a fine product. ive used both on a regular basis (moreso xp than osx) and while they are differences i really dont think that for the vast majority of users there is much of a difference.

i own an ipod because it was best product out there at the time. it still is, though only slightly and if i were in the market today i would end up with a nomad neo.

when my poor abused motherboard went kaput last semester, i ended up switching from amd processors to intel, because the value for me was that. another note, you cant do that with apple computers, and i think that is one reason that apple isnt as popular among computer enthusiasts.

the bottomline is that there isnt much other than advertising and industrial design seperating the main companies out there. should be good times for the consumer.

 

[Brian-W]

Didn't this use to be a thread about iTunes


Um, not quite. They sell Refurbished eMacs for as low as $500, but not iMacs. Refurb iMacs are still close to a grand

 

[Scott H]

You are mistaken. I said that they were selling iMacs brand new, first quality, for $600. Absolute fact. And in the weeks after Sept. 11, 2001, Apple reduced the price to $499 brand new in certain markets. I was not refering to current LCD models.

As far as current iMacs, here is the iMac G4/800 256/60/DVD-CDRW 15-inch for $949, brand new, first quality, at ExperCom.
http://www.expercom.com/show_page.ht...TIC_PAGE_ID=24

Since you may doubt the price we paid for this iBook, it was purchased at Microcenter in Dec. The unique G3 model iBook Z0R01X69, including airport card and Panther, was avaiable only for a short time.

 

[RolandDeschain]

That would be pretty sad then for you wouldn't it? Being outwitted and proven wrong by a child, right?

 

[Shane D]

um, osx came out before xp, and xp copied many things from osx, i think you have it backwards there. when promotional shots of xp was released, it had icons from osx as holders i believe.

 

[David_Stein]

well i tried to figure out the exact release dates and as far as i can tell, osx beat xp to market by a couple months. i stand corrected.

 

[Scott H]

I don't think I could fathom any comparisons between OS X and XP. Entirely different heritage and divergent technologies.

OS X is Unix based:

Aqua is the Mac UI.
Darwin is the core OS.

Darwin combines Mach (based on Mach 3.0 from Carnegie Mellon University) with BSD (customized version of FreeBSD 4.4 from the University of California, Berkely). Darwin is an open-source Apple project.



How about Jobs' NeXT?

 

[David_Stein]

how about the comparison that if joe average user is going to go buy a computer its going to have either windows XP or MacOS X?

 

[DavidLW]

That is 100% correct, you can't switch to an Intel processor on any Apple computers.

But there are upgrade options available. I upgraded a 450mhz G4 to 1ghz G4 by replacing the processor daugther card with a Sonnet Tech. upgrade for less than $300.00. I believe most G3 in a tower case can be upgraded to a G4. And I'm thinking about upgrading the 400mhz G3 in my Primso Laptop to a 400mhz G4 for about $375.00 (includes labor, shipping both ways and shipping container). In fact the 450mhz G4 chip I removed is in my old 7200 by way of an upgrade Zif daugther card I got for less than $50.00. There are even upgrades that can convert a single processor G4 to a dual processor G4. The upgrade options are there but no where near the choices you have with an AMD / Intel PC.

 

[JerryLA]

Patrick,
I was not using the G5 as any type of measuring stick. I have a G5 and I'm well aware of the differences. I believe I compared the G5 to a comparable PC. I have not kept up with current pricing on the lower end Macs but from people I know who have purchased lower end Macs they were displeased with expansion limits. I don't know this first hand as I do not own one. The only point I was trying to make as I was praising Apple was that the numbers don't lie. For ever one Mac sold there are at least 2 or 3 PC's sold. Why do you think that is?

 

[Joseph S]

Poor build quality and failed components in their first two PCs.

The answer is software and piss poor HTML coders at major corps at this point. I've got 3 Macs and 2 PCs and the only reason I have the PCs is for software and .html reasons. Put the Sonic DVD filters in the player or another player, fire the .html coders at several corps, and an HDTV tuner under OS X and my HTPC case is suddenly filled with Mac internals. XP is still a dog on my 2.25 GHz P4 HTPC yet OS X remains rock solid and uncrashable for years on my Dual G4 with the lone exception of a crash using an alpha open source NTFS driver. My PB has never crashed in the 8 months I've owned it. No "clean" installs, no driver re-installs, no USB crapping out using the exact same peripherals on my KVM, no virii, a Drive repair tool that actually works (Diskwarrior) and no payments needed for AnitVirii soft, Disk Imaging, Gui .rar/.zip decoding, and I can now read those NTFS drives as well.

So, Apple is not DOOMED. Dual/Quad G5 in '04 for me and continued iTunes streaming throughout my place on 802.11g and wired 1000BT. Why would you want an Intel chip when you can have a chip from the same family as the Mars Rovers?

 

[JerryLA]

I have a G5 at work and to tell you the truth, if I could justify one at home I'd have one. I agree and enjoy iTunes very much. In my work environment we've had quite a few font problems on the G5 running Panther but they are just about under control. We do a lot of printing of customer photo's from digital cameras. They are never a problem on the Mac... the PC... well that's another story.

 

[DavidLW]

Because every time MS comes out with a "new " OS it turns whatever PC you got into a slow computer and the only way around it is to upgrade to a faster one.

I'm running my 400mhz G3 Pismo on OS X.2 without any noticable slow down from OS 9 and I heard that OS X.3 may even speed it up a little.

I won't dare go past Windows 98 on my 450mhz PC.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

It was funny to me to see Seth's comments on economics in the middle of all of this Apple debate.

At least he did not dispute my comments on the recession!

 

[ElevSkyMovie]

I installed XP on my 350 mhz pc at home, at it works quite well. No more crashes like I had with 98, it's rock solid.

I would love to have a mac, but for a home pc for the family to get email, why would I want to spend that much? I'm not a zealot of either camp. I just don't want to pay more for a computer than I do my car.

 

[Patrick Larkin]

Because most people could care less and just buy whatever the guy at Best Buy tells them to buy. And when Circuit City and Best Buy were selling Macs, people would STILL buy the PCs because the dude at Best Buy is just like them...

 

[Seth_L]

Why would I have? You agreed with me.