iTunes, Apple ultimately in trouble? (1 Viewer)

[Seth_L]

You're getting your threads confused here. Either way...

I haven't been outwitted by you and when Jobs shows the new Ipod in a few days we'll see who was right. I have factual data from people working with Apple on the new Ipod, and you have rumors which don't make any sense if examined carefully.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Sounds interesting. Are you saying the price point will be low then?

 

[RolandDeschain]

which is even more laughable. So if I'm a child, then I haven't a clue as to what you are, other than wrong.

 

[Seth_L]

I don't have any information to think it will be low cost. The whole $99-129 1.5gig Ipod story makes no sense. It'd be like Apple selling a Rio Nitrus for 1/2-2/3 the cost. That's not how Apple works. If they were to make a Nitrus like product it would almost guaranteed cost more than a Nitrus.

 

[Seth_L]

Roland,

Apparently you and I have different opinions of "innovate". You view Apple as an innovator. I view them as a prime example of what happens to a company when you don't exploit your strengths and have bad leadership. Apple's strength is in their software. They should have stopped making computer hardware a long time ago and become a software company. There's no reason why OS X and its applications couldn't run on a Wintel box.

As for the bad leadership, I point the finger squarely at Steve Jobs. His pride and arrogance has hurt the company time and time again.

You on the other hand choose to live in the Steve Job's Reality Distortion Field. That's your right and priveledge, but don't presume that your rose colored Apple glasses are giving you an accurate outlook on the situation.

 

[Scott H]

Wow. These are some of the most fantastic comments I have ever read on any forum.

The funniest response is the following:

Executive of the Year
Steve's Jobs: Balancing performance at Pixar, innovation at Apple
San Francisco Business Journal
December 29, 2003
http://sanfrancisco.bizjournals.com/...29/story1.html

Did you know that for his "bad leadership" he was considered for Newsweek's person of the year as well? Again? And, the praise for his vision, leadership, and innovation is widespread. Among other stories in recent weeks, reference CBS Marketwatch Winners of 2003.

Your perception of Apple history is unique, to say the least. Jobs has done anything but hurt the company again and again. The exact opposite of what you say is true. Apple has been it's most successful and relevant under his leadership. Do you even know who John Sculley, Michael Spindler and Gil Amelio are?

You are absolutely wrong. The accusation (not opinion) that you stated above can be proven wrong by anyone, and you can't prove any aspect of it. It's that obvious, and that simple. Your comments are that out there.

Apple should not be making hardware? This indicates a lack of understanding of both the Apple business model, which is extraordinarily successful (under Jobs' leadership), and the industry at large. It is because Apple makes hardware that they are so successful. Additionally, their hardware innovations and relevance could fill pages (in an appropriate place). Apple's strength is in their software? Yes. And their hardware. There are hundreds of online vendors, not to mention the Apple Stores, doing very well selling widely acclaimed computer hardware to the millions of non-mainstream, some would say discerning, consumers.

To your first sentence above, you clearly have a different opinion of "innovate". Different than the accepted definition used by everyone else, and different than the industry and technology experts.

The reality distortion field is obviously surrounding you, not others.

 

[Scott H]

You are claiming, on this public board, that you personally know people employed by Apple Computer that have violated their non-discolure agreement and revealed to you specifically information pertaining to an upcoming product?

Such is a remarkable admonition.

 

[Seth_L]

No Scott, that's not what I said, but feel free to interpret it however you want.

 

[Seth_L]

Scott,

Jobs has cost Apple money with stupid decisions. The largest Apple's marketshare has been in recent years was when they allowed Apple clones to be sold. When Jobs came back as CEO that was the first think he killed off.

Of everyone I know who is impressed with an Apple computer, they all love the OS and Software. No one is impressed with the hardware (save the 23" Cinema Display and Ipod).

Their marketshare is continuing to drop. Last I saw Apple had less marketshare than Linux. Whoever said that Apple sells 1 or every 3 PCs was using way out of date information. Per the last data I saw it's actually less than 1 of every 20 PCs is an Apple.

Had it not been for the Ipod Apple would have had another bad year.

So, while the San Francisco Business Journal chose to name his as Executive of the year, I will kindly disagree with their selection. Apple, under Job's leadership, is quickly heading towards unimportance.

 

[Shane D]

how can anyone say under jobs they are going under?

it was under gil amelio (last ceo), who licensed the os to clones. apple lost money on every single one of those sold. so of course he killed it. also under gil, you had about 30 different machines, with names like 6500, 7200, 17520, 7520. impossible to decipher names that gave no indication to what it was. again, jobs killed that. under gil we had the stagnation of os 8 and 9. a patchwork of code that gave the illusion of being robust. again. jobs killed that.

now with jobs, within 9 months of him taking charge again, the imac emerges and follows 3 years of HUGE profits, even during years EVERY OTHER computer company lost money. Imac fevor dies down. The ipod is introduced followed by the music store. Again, HUGE profits. All from the mind of jobs and jonathon ives. And now, with the G5 coming strong, and the software apple has acquired, they are giving the ability to make movies and dvds that has put a huge boon into the HOME AMATUER digital video market, the G4 imacs and ibooks show this.

i think apple has been in the red maybe 2 quarters since jobs took over again. In that same time, most computer companies have been in the black maybe 2 quarters. thats saying something, especially with such a small market. all this from a guy who makes $1 a year being a ceo for the company (granted, i know they bought him a jet and other bonuses, but still, salary, dollar a year just to get on the insurance plan).

oh, and another thing, the argument bout firewire, that is a apple creation, the reason no one else calls it firewire, is cause apple was short sighted and decied they wanted something like 1 dollar per port per machine for it to be advertised as firewire. that is why MOST companeies call it iiee1994. And as far as usb goes, no a pple didnt' create it, but it took apple to get it accepted. usb was around about a year before the imac came out, but there was next to NO support for it. 6 months after the imac, well thats a different story. =0)

 

[Seth_L]

Ahh yes, lets look at some more Apple innovations while we're at it...

USB
PCI Bus
Serial ATA
AGP
DDR Memory
ATAPI/IDE Optical drives
...

 

[RolandDeschain]

I don't know where you get your fruitcake information, but you should seek another source, really. You are so amazingly wrong it is truly mind boggling. In all honesty, I have never seen anyone outside of a Microsoft board so utterly and blatantly ignorant with regards to Apple Computer and how they operate. You should be proud in some twisted way.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Seth,

Tell Us again how Apple didn't invent Firewire?

 

[DavidLW]

This is some what true. When there were clones available the Apple OS had about maybe 8-9% of the PC market. But Apple itself still sold less than 4% of the computers. In fact many people that owned an Apple computer went out and bought a clone when it was time to upgrade. Motorola and PowerComputing spent most of their effort selling to people that already owned Apple computers, which didn't do Apple any good. Jobs wanted to restructure the licencing agreement so it was more favorable to Apple. After all, Apple was doing all the R&D and OS support. When Motorola and PowerComputing balked, Jobs pulled their licenses. Then he came out with OS 9 that ran only on the new G3 and G4 processors. This made many Apple OS user mad as they felt they now had to purchase a high priced Apple computer. But Jobs changed all that too. The new Apple computers offered more and cost less than what most Apple user were use to. They were still not as cheap as PC's but were at least selling for what clones would have sold for. Many Apple users were still disgusted and switched to PC's. But a lot of those are slowly migrating back to Apple.

Let's look back at PC's history. I remember when I bought my first PC in 1994, there must have been over 20 PC companies to choose from. If you opened up a PC magazine,there were literally dozens of glossy adds from PC maker's. Micron and Quantex were some of the biggers ones. Where are they now. They're all gone, killed off by Dell. Even IBM got out of the PC desk top market. IBM had over 10% of the market in recent times. Yet Apple still survives and actually doing quite well under the guidance of Jobs.

And let's not forget that Apple accounts for over 7% of the laptops sold. And laptops account for over 40% of the computers being sold now of days.

 

[LanceJ]

I'm not picking on Apple, but what happened to their cool "cube" computer they sold somewhere around 2000-2001? It disappeared so fast--too expensive?

LJ

 

[Scott H]

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,59764,00.html

 

[Lee Scoggins]

From wsj.com the Wall Street Journal's web site:



This is good news and probably means they figured out how to make a profit on a less expensive model.

 

[David Lawson]

I don't think anyone is claiming that Apple is being "innovative" by implementing current industry standards into their machines. Their innovation lies not in what they use, but how they use it.

 

[Shane D]

well that was a disappointing macworld.
250 bucks for 4 gigs,
or you can pay 300, for 15. hmmm. smart move

http://www.apple.com/ipodmini/

(and yes, i like macs)

 

[David Lawson]

I don't understand the math, either, but I predict that the pink model and armband attachment will be huge sellers.