I'm Weak, I Broke Down, Marantz AV7703 On the Way (1 Viewer)

[Robert Crawford]

Robert, my impression is that the head unit part of the 8012 is pretty much the same, maybe identical, to the AV7704, just without balanced outputs, and with power amps. I know I'm very happy with my AV7703. In my opinion, once you're in the price range of an SR8012, it's at least worth looking into separates. With the AV7705 out the AV7704 is being closed out you can get it for $1.5K which opens up $1.5K for amps. Yeah, I know, separates scare people. There's nothing like some serious power, though.

John,
My current Dolby Atmos set up is 7.2.4 with my Yamaha 3060 which means I already run a separate 7 channel Outlaw amp with only the Yamaha powering the four Dolby Atmos speakers.

 

[JohnRice]

All the more reason to look at the AV7704 then. Add a reasonable amp for Atmos, like the Emotiva A500 (you'll have a spare channel) for $500, or the Outlaw 5000. You're practically there already. Why spend all that $ on a receiver?

 

[Robert Crawford]

All the more reason to look at the AV7704 then. Add a reasonable amp for Atmos, like the Emotive A500 (you'll have a spare channel) for $500. You're practically there already. Why spend all that $ on a receiver?

Because I'm not paying $2999.99 for that receiver and I want the upgrade to 2.1 when it becomes available.

 

[JohnRice]

One upgrade step I've been planning is to replace my mismatched surrounds with ELAC Debut B6.2s, so I have one pair on the way. First I'm going to try them in my living room system as the mains, to see how they do. If I'm really happy with them, they will probably replace the serviceable but not exactly impressive Polks in there. That'll require a new stand, if I do go with them, because the 6.2 center won't fit in the one I have, unless I set the TV on top of it. I have two problems with that. The obvious vibration the TV will experience, plus it'll place the TV too high. Still, it'll let me give them a try in two different implementations. Those Debut B6.2s can be a real bargain, if they're as good as their reputation.

The main system would still be a bit of a mismatch, with Thiels for L&R, an ELAC Uni-Fi for center (which actually blends with the Thiels extremely well) and ultimately Debuts the rest of the way around (surround and in-ceiling) but it would still be the most cohesive system I've ever had.

To review, when I first went 5.1, and then 7.1, dipole surrounds seemed to be the preference, but surround soundtracks have really changed and dipoles produce weird results. I switched them to bipole, which was a definite improvement, but I think the ideal these days is probably direct radiating.

 

[Bob Bielski]

Still waiting for the latest news John. I just bumped into this by accident and everything you previously stated about the vinyl quad is almost verbatim. Pretty interesting stuff, and also goes to show that you really know your stuff. Look at the dates. Your statements were months ago and this video post is 2 days old.
I know your probably busy but when you get a chance post some of your discoveries please, with Atmos.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I will have my SR-8012 around next Friday. I know some are saying buy separates but I wanted a one box solution that I could use as a partial pre/amp later one down the road. My hat off to those who went the pre/pro and amplifier route as it really is the best way to go.

 

[JohnRice]

I will have my SR-8012 around next Friday. I know some are saying buy separates but I wanted a one box solution that I could use as a partial pre/amp later one down the road. My hat off to those who went the pre/pro and amplifier route as it really is the best way to go.

Dave, don't sweat it. Using external amps has been a mix of coolness and necessity for me through the years. I haven't always been able to afford it. My current system is comprised entirely of low sensitivity, 4 Ohm speakers, so it's basically a necessity. I'm updating the surround part for the first time in longer than I can remember, and the new stuff will be a little less demanding, but I already have the amps.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I will have my SR-8012 around next Friday. I know some are saying buy separates but I wanted a one box solution that I could use as a partial pre/amp later one down the road. My hat off to those who went the pre/pro and amplifier route as it really is the best way to go.

Even though I got a great price on the SR-8012, I've decided to stick with my Yamaha 3060 as part of my partial pre/amp setup. It didn't make sense for me to spend money on something that isn't broken and that I'm happy with.

 

[JohnRice]

Just a general observation regarding hdmi cables. I realized my hdmi cables are a hodgepodge of whatever I've compiled through the years. They aren't the very oldest ones, I'm pretty sure they all have ethernet, but otherwise a scattered assortment. I decided to just buy new ones all around, with the idea of (eventually) UHD and an OLED for when my plasma dies, and because Monoprice has good cables for so cheap. So I replaced everything with their certified 18Gb models. The one to the TV is a little borderline, at 15', so I got an active one, just to be safe. I seem to be noticing that the preamp locks onto a signal faster. It's not instantaneous, but it's usually about 1 second or so. I don't know if my ten year old plasma is a factor in it.

Just thought I'd mention it. With 3' and 6' certified cables costing $4 or less each in multi packs, why not just do it? The 15' active one was $22.

 

[Bob Bielski]

I checked out a few videos on YouTube and Audioholics, they pretty much stated it is a digital signal and no need to over spend. Extra long runs is where the difference in quality might show up as signal loss. Bluejeans cables reccomended there brand as well as Belden, and Monoprice for longer runs.
Monster Cable had a lawsuit for coming up short on speed ratings, class action.
I wonder if in the very near future with IoT the internet of things, if wires will begin to become obsolete. My wife would love that. LOL

 

[JohnRice]

I’m actually not talking about signal loss, rather than how quickly they lock onto a signal. People tend to comment on that taking too long at times. It was just a thought that cables might be a factor.

 

[Bob Bielski]

That sounds like a few variables, with not knowing if it is the display or the cable or last the signal source to the pre amp. Sounds like one of those isolate the one that is causing the difference situations.

 

[JohnRice]

for the living room system.

What the hell happened to the rest of my post? Stinkin’ iPad!

 

[Dave Moritz]

Hey John how does your 7703 sound with two channel stereo music?

 

[JohnRice]

It sounds good, but music is the priority for that system and I actually have a type of parallel system for music, using an Emotiva XSP-1 stereo preamp and DC-1 DAC. The XSP-1 is designed so it can go in between the surround processor and the power amp. It's much higher quality for music, and when playing only music, you don't even turn on the surround preamp. When I watch surround stuff, it just passes the L, R and sub signals through. It also allows you to set a completely different sub crossover for music than for surround. Using the two options is actually a lot simpler than it probably sounds.

I know, It's a little silly, but it sounds awesome.

 

[JohnRice]

The ELAC Debut B6.2s have about 15 hours of break-in completed, and they're coming into their sound. Nice speakers. I think I might do a full-blown review once they have more time to reach their peak and I can get them set up ideally. the ultimate plan is for them to be surrounds (along with a second pair) in my main system. During break-in, they're the L/R in the living room.

 

[Bob Bielski]

FINALLY some info. Did you run full bandwidth pink noise to break them in or how did you do it? What did you feed these speakers and how have you perceived the improvement? John you are one of the few on this site that I know is totally competent in truly putting any piece through its paces and I value your deductions and I appreciate you sharing with us all. We can all learn and benefit from your evaluations.

 

[JohnRice]

I've done the frequency sweeps in the past. I even set them face-to-face with the phase inverted on one speaker, so I could play them LOUD without disrupting the house. I finally realize, you just need to exercise them thoroughly. So I pick music that has as broad a fidelity and as much sound as possible. So, I just put some Dream Theater on repeat and play it at a decent level while I'm out of the house.

The imaging of the ELACs was very impressive, out of the box, but they were dead sounding. They quickly (about an hour) brightened up and even got a little harsh, but then after a seven hour stint while I was at work last Thursday, they started finding some balance. I played DT again for a couple hours or so yesterday while I was doing yard work. I didn't want to play it too loud, but it was clearly audible in my entire back yard, with the windows closed, from the room that juts out from the main house into the back yard.

They're not in a reasonable, long term placement yet. In fact, I'm using the Polk Monitor 70s that are currently in the room as stands, which places them over a foot higher than they should be. Plus, they might resonate a bit through the Polk cabinets. The Polks are 43" tall, which puts the top of the ELACs at 58", and their tweeters are nearly at the top of their cabinet, so they are way up there. I'm deciding on some reasonably priced stands. I think I'll go with 28" Pangea LS300s for $100.

One mistake I think a lot of people make is not allowing for enough space between speakers and the wall be hind them. If you want the best imaging, there needs to be space behind them, and I think that's especially important with these. In my dedicated room, my Thiels have 4' behind them, but that's not reasonable in a living space. I'm hoping I can get 2' without it being weird.

I finally really tested the imaging of the ELACs by playing the recording I got from HDTracks of Kim Andre Arnesen's Magnificat. I'm not playing the full, 192/24 file I bought, but the downres 48/16 version I have loaded into iTunes. This is being played back with very ordinary equipment, Just a 10 year old Marantz SR5004 receiver, streamed from iTunes using an AppleTV 4K. The imaging of that piece is very nice with the ELACs. Surprisingly good, considering the less than ideal setup. So, I expect it to only get better. To be fair, there is absolutely NO comparison to what I get playing this same recording, with the high res file and my good system, but it's very nice all the same.

 

[Bob Bielski]

I remember seeing a picture of John Dunlaveys' home theater front speakers that were wall mounted. His room doubled as a living room, so his options were limited. He mounted them upside down to get the tweeter closer to ear level. I wonder, did you try that with the ELACs? Thanks for sharing the information.

 

[JohnRice]

Wall mounting isn't really an option in this room, plus it's much more important to me to get the imaging as good as I can, which means having the speakers away from the wall. This room isn't actually a living room, but a room that was added on to the back of the house, where there used to be a large patio. The walls are mostly windows, so everything has to sit on the floor. I've had it arranged different ways through the years, but the way I like it is with the system set up so I can see it from the kitchen. When it was a patio, the kitchen had a window out to it and the back yard, but now it's just a window (no glass) into the room.

Anyway, I've been spending too much money lately, including a bill to repair the supposedly maintenance-free transmission on my car. I love it when something like that is engineered to such a high level, but then the simplest, cheapest part of the factor (the pan gasket) fails. A bad $30 part costs $500 to fix. Nope, I'm past the general warranty and it's not considered part of the powertrain warranty.

Still, I broke down and have stands on the way. Should have them Wednesday.