If DefTech are "bright" sounding . . . (2 Viewers)

[Bob_A]

With careful setup and attention to associated equipment, DT's should not sound dull or lifeless at all.

 

[John Morris]

The only reason I still have my old Mirage's are because of their PTH(Pure Titanium Hybrid)Tweeters. To me, they are so revealing without sibilance or shrillness. I keep buying old Mirage speakers with these tweeters... and now I have 4 speakers too many for my primary system. DOH!:b

 

[Alex F.]

Marshall:

Here are a few brands that I've heard recently that are neutral to a bit warm, and will not sound the least bit aggressive in the upper midrange and treble (unless, of course, your associated components are inherently so):

Vienna Acoustics; Sonus-Faber (with the possible exception of the Grand Piano); Vandersteen (the only brand utilizing a metal-dome tweeter that I like); and Polk's stunning new LSi audiophile line (my wife and I were so knocked out after auditioning the LSi-9's--the best bookshelf model under $2500 we've ever heard--that we recently purchased a pair of the LSi-25s).

All the above offer exceptional performance--I recommend them highly.

Happy listening!

 

[Holadem]

With careful setup and attention to associated equipment, DT's should not sound dull or lifeless at all.

Holy Christ Bob, ever heard of an opinion??!!!

Is it also possible that bright might be... subjective and that no time spent critically placing the speakers is ever gonna change anything?

--

Holadem

 

[Michael R Price]

I think that some 'bright' speakers might just be those with a flat frequency response in the treble. Of course, a flat frequency response (especially above 5 KHz) might sound 'bright.' But I've never heard orchestral instruments like the brass and trumpets sound more real than on Klipsch speakers which many think are ridiculously bright (a bit less so on my Kit281s). Of course, bright speakers can also make rock music a bit more exciting. Your mileage may vary. Of course, the best thing is probably to have 'bright' or accurate and revealing speakers with which you can apply equalization to make the sound 'warmer' when you so desire. (Or warm speakers and boost the treble when you desire 'brightness.') And by bright, I don't think I mean shrill and harsh. That's another thing and I think we all agree it's bad. All IMO, of course. One of my friends' dads couldnt stand the Klipsch sound at all, and I thought his old electrostatic speakers sounded very dull and lacking 'impact.' So it boils to personal taste.

 

[Brett DiMichele]

Michael,

I so agree...

The only thing your ears and your brain realy know are

Left and Right.. Front and Back..

When it comes to sound, no two ears hear the same thing

and no one is right or wrong per se. It boils down to

preference for sure.

 

[Danny Tse]

Don't know if anyone mentioned it, but one's perception of whether a speaker is "bright" or "warm" is totally dependent on the listener's hearing. For example, I always read people complaining that NHT speakers are "bright", but to MY EARS, they're just about right. Maybe it's me or maybe it's the other way around. Listen to all your choices and make the decision that will make YOU happy.

 

[mark mann]

Vienna Acoustics have real nice silk dome tweeters and very good midrange ihave the bach floorstanders and really like the sound,also the new polks lsi line is pretty simular and both have nice real veneer finishs.....

 

[Todd Schnell]

Marshall,

What were the DT speakers Driven by?

I can't say I'm very familiar with the Studio 350s.

I do own a pair of 2004TLs, & I would not argue they can sound at least slightly bright.

I have found that speaker placement with these is very crucial.

Every room is different.

Here is what I have found in my room (painted panel over sheet rock walls & carpet).

They need a bit of space.

I have mine out about 24-30" from the back wall.

I have also found if you tilt the front slightly up they become brighter.

On the other had if you level them or even tilt just a hair back they become much warmer.

Again placement & set up is a key factor.

I love these speaker for HT they kick ass!

For music they are good, but I would not say outstanding.

There are imo more musical speakers out there.

My point is each ear is indeed different, but set up is also

crucial.

Todd

 

[Mark Austin]

I think that some 'bright' speakers might just be those with a flat frequency response in the treble. Of course, a flat frequency response (especially above 5 KHz) might sound 'bright.'

Brightness is usually asscociated with frequencies in the 2.5-4Khz range. The frequencies above that really don't give us that "bright" sound. They may give a fatiguing sound, but not because of "brightness".

 

[Mark Austin]

The reason people perceive metal dome speakers to be bright is the inherent ringing/resonance most metal dome tweeters produce in the 2.5-4Khz range.

A speaker that is bright sounding is not faithfully reproducing the absolute sound.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

When they measure metal dome tweeters in Stereophile, their resonance peak is usually in the 25kHz ro 27kHz(usually about +10 to +15 dB). I don't ever remember seeing one in the 2.5 to 4 kHz range.
Take a look at this measurement from Stereophile of an Epos metal-dome tweeter loudspeaker.
http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?566:9
The revel M20:
http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?492:5
PSB Image 4T:
http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?330:6

 

[Mark Austin]

Bhagi,

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying EVERY metal dome has this problem, just that MANY, or MOST do. As evidenced by the graphs, those three don't.

 

[Mark Austin]

I will also add that I have heard soft domes that sound bright, and metal domes that sound warm. A lot of this has to do with the way the manufacturer voices the speaker. It just so happens that metal domes tend towards a bright sound, and unless careful attention is paid by the manufacturer, that attribute will exhibit itself in the end result. Some manufacterers prefer to produce a product with a brighter sound, just as some prefer to offer a warmer sound. It's all personal preference. Most times we hear warmer speakers described as "musical", and bright speakers to be more "analytical". IMO, a slightly warmer sound is closer to the real event, but can also tend towards euphonic. Which isn't all bad either.
Many people are under the impression that one gives up detail with a "warmer" sounding speaker. That isn't necessarily the case. Moving up into the higher end speakers allow one to enjoy a more musical presentation, without a loss of detail.

 

[Mark Austin]

Brett,

If you are easily fatigued

by faithful reproduction of very high notes from metallic

wind or strung instruments then you may want to avoid any

speaker that utilizes a metallic dome tweeter of any sort

(Aluminium, Titanium, Ceramic Composites and even Carbon

Composites) in lieu of more "laid back" high frequency

drivers utilizing treated silk, Polypropelene, Aerogel and

open celled foams among others.

I think you are placing too much credence in the frequency response. Hypothetically, a speaker could measure a perfectly flat frequency response, but not sound anywhere near "faithful" as you put it. There are many other factors that contribute to the overall "faithfullness" of a speakers sound. And, the very high notes from metallic wind or strung instruments don't reach above 5khz in most situations. In fact, I would be highly surprised if there is a single one.

 

[Bruce Chang]

Throw in a Tube amp to smooth out the highs. My Paradigm studio 60s sounded laid back and warm. Check out the PSB goldi's, they have impressive tweeter eventhough it's metal.

 

[Dave Johnson]

silk dome tweeters!

i have the vienna acoustics bach as well - outstanding speaker.

and your amp will make a difference, i've paired these with a rotel rb981.

 

[Jeff Keene]

I think you are placing too much credence in the frequency response. Hypothetically, a speaker could measure a perfectly flat frequency response, but not sound anywhere near "faithful" as you put it.

I agree with this 100%. I've never understood the willingness to associate that harsh, hard edge with the ability to play back a frequency. For me, it has much more to do with timbre and sibiliance than anything else.
I have noticed that while a speaker has a lot to do with this phenomenon, the amplifier used to drive the speaker has a very significant effect as well. I've found this to be true on both sides of the coin. With Thiel speakers, I found that high current amplification was needed to eliminate the harshness that a simple receiver / Thiel combo provided. When auditioning Vienna Acoustics, power was needed to squeeze some detail out of them. I went with the Krell / Thiel combo.
That said, I am 80/20 music/movies. If I were the opposite, I would have gone with Def Tech, my second choice from everything I heard. I did not find the def tech to need as much amplifier as the Thiel to eliminate the "ringing" and "s-s-s-s", but I did notice an improvement in sound when I mated the Krell with the DTs.
From my auditioning, another speaker I'd recommend you listen to would be NHT. While their tweeters in their towers are metal, I did not find them harsh. Again (I promise I'm not an amp salesman) I found that the Krell brough the NHT 2.5i to life the way a receiver couldn't.
There are a few ways to approach this. 1) Try to find a system that is even, smooth, detailed, etc. throughout. Good luck with this, and let us know what you find . 2) Start with a "revealing, detailed, accurate" system and try to smooth it out if it sounds harsh. This is the approach I took. With Thiel and Krell, I added an Anthem pre/pro to continue where the Krell left off in taming the all-metal drivers of the Thiels. I am now in hog heaven. 3) Start with a "laid-back", "smooth", "musical" system and try to squeeze out the detail. The Vienna Acoustics I heard fell into this category for me. While is was extremely pleasent to listen to, I didn't hear the instrument separation and speed that I require. Adding the BAT 6200 amp made a major step forward, but still didn't match the clarity and detail of the Thiel for me. The salesman offered that the right pre-pro would finish the job, but he didn't have one that fit the bill.
Anyway, have fun, and good luck.

 

[Brad Dales]

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZT................

 

[Larry B]

Jeff:

Two questions:

1. Which Thiel's do you own?

2. Did you try other amplifiers, or just the Krells?

Larry