I have two words for you...Bass Management UPDATED! (1 Viewer)

[Kevin Coleman]

ROTFLMAO TimF

Kevin C.

 

[Rich Stone]

Vince,
As I and others have stated, I've tried adjusting my bass management and while setting the speakers to small does help, the bass still has relatively low impact. I'm sure there is truth to the mixers redirecting bass to the mains, but I still feel there is a problem - especially since the Pro-Logic and DD laserdiscs soundtracks have so much more impact. This is the point I have been trying to make - hope this is my last post on this issue
Obi,
I did write in my opinion (IMHO) when I mentioned my disc being defective - I certainly don't know for sure. I do agree that it is unlikely but I have no other explanation.
In response to the following quote:
"But if most HTF members have their mains set to SMALL AND have quality sub(s), yet are still disappointed?.."
You wrote:
"But that does not seem to be the case. What I am reading now indicates a relative handful of individuals whose expectations were not met so they are assuming a defective disc."
Can't speak for others setups but that's NOT the case with me and it's not just a matter of not meeting my expectations. The performance gap between this and the other JP soundtracks I am so familiar with (on MY system) is truly significant, no matter the speaker settings.
All,
You know we could post what equipment we're using although that could turn this whole thing into a pissing match. Let's make sure we keep this discussion civilized.
Rich Stone

 

[Max Leung]

Rich, have you tried temporarily upping the volume on your subwoofer or increasing the LFE level on your receiver/processors?
I found that if I increase my master volume, and have my subwoofer a little over the reference level (from the Avia subwoofer calibration), the bass roars (with speakers set to small)! If I lower the volume a few dBs on my DSP-A1 however, the bass suddenly disappears. I suspect the bass track is much more subtle than we're used to, and combine that with woofer placement and the non-linearity of volume controls, it makes a big difference on my system.
I can safely say that this issue is resolved for me (what a relief!)
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Max Leung

 

[Greg Cellini]

Hi Ozzie!
I agree! Gave my JP (DTS) a spin last night with the same results. I have a Lexicon MC-1 and a Paradigm Servo 15. The opening scene with the Bronto, the initial T-rex scene; all very disappointing. This, most certainly, is not a bass management issue. This, in all probability, is an LFE encoding issue. The ball was obviously dropped on this one. Very unfortunate.
Cheers,
Greg

 

[Mark McLeod]

Rob from Ontario.
Thanks for the tips.
According to www.klipsch.com my subwoofer can handle the following
Frequency Response: 24-90Hz±3dB
Low Pass Crossover: Continuously variable from 40-120Hz, 24dB/octave slope above 120Hz
I agree that 200 is a little high.. I'm going to bump it down to say maybe 125 like you said..

 

[EricK]

Based (no pun!) on what I have read here and my own thoughts it definietly seems that the DTS DVD JP is defective or was misencoded somewhere along the line.
I do not think that people on here are having problems configuring their bass management. Small, large whatever it may be.....I think the discs are bad.
Eric.

 

[Margo]

Okay... I have plenty of bass here with the DTS DVD... but, do I have "enough"? When the T-Rex first comes and they show the water in the cup should I be able to feel the T-Rex the first time I see the water moving in the cup? Presently I begin to "feel" the T-Rex the third time that I see the water moving. Do I need to work some more on my audio set-up?

 

[TerryC]

The problem with this thread and the others is everyone is giving subjective comments about what they are hearing through "their" system. A little while back I posted a question about what DVD has great bass. I received a lot of replies but one sticks out in my mind, somebody said The Matrix doesn't have bass, the person had a decent quality M&K sub too. Turned out when I measured it straight out of the Receiver into the Computer The MAtrix has some of the lowest bass measured although not for long periods of time. The problem he was having was his sub wasn't capable of reproducing all the bass on that DVD so it led to his incorrect assumptions. That type of situation along with what others subjectively consider a bass heavy DVD makes this a hard to argue situation as what might be bassy to you is not bassy to me and vice versa.
IMHO, the DD version of Jurassic Park doesn't have good bass at all, and for those that might think my system might not be capable of reproducing bass, check this thread where I measure my system down to past 20Hz and at very loud SPL's. BTW this betters almost all commercial subs out there. http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/...ML/002081.html
Since I don't have a LD player that test is out of the question and thats too bad as I would have loved to compare the three versions of Jurassic Park. Anyone in Mission Viejo are with a Laserdisc player and the DTS LD willing to come by my house? A good buddy Lewis Beeze is expecting his DTS DVD version of Jurassic Park any day(might even be today). I will compare it to the non bassy DD version for us all to see and hopefully post some light to this subject.
Terry

 

[FredHD]

I hate to post yet another reply regarding JP, but I performed a small test this morning that leads me to believe that there just may be a problem with the JP DTS DVD. I thought the LFE sounded rather anemic myself.
So here's what I did:
1. I set my receiver's volume at 60 (that is my normal volume level for pretty much every movie I watch, my normal volume when setting reference levels is 69). So I then I made sure that all my speakers were set to small and my sub was on (AS ALWAYS). I set my subs crossover to 120hZ.
2. I popped the disc into my player and a VHS dub of the DPL LD that is like 3 years old into the VCR. I then cued both of them to the scene where Ian is on the back of the Jeep right before the T-Rex chases them in the Jeep. I thought this would be perfect because I would measure the three tremors because that signal with my setup would be almost entirely LFE.
3. I grabbed my trusty SPL meter and played the DVD. I measured the three impact tremors before Ian speaks and got a measurement of 81dB. Then I played the DPL VHS version, and the three were about 86.5dB.
5.5db!!!! That's not exactly peanuts. So are the guys like Obi and Vince trying to tell me that the DTS DVD is supposed to have that much lower of an LFE signal than an old VHS copy? Until I can test the DTS against a DD copy which I will rent tonight, I'm am going with the assumption that I have a bad disc.
Anyway, I just thought I'd throw this example into the ring.
I know it was't the most scientific of test, but it makes sense to me.
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"It's dangerous enough just being in the water with a shark. But when you start messing with the shark, you're really getting yourself in trouble."
-Me

 

[Rich Stone]

Max,
I did boost the sub level which helped a little more but still did not fully solve the problem. There is no getting around it in my system and I can't chalk it up to bass managment or inadequate equipment based on the performance of other JP mixes I've heard on my system.
All,
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that Jurrasic Park on DVD is something I can live without - I'll stick with my trusty Pro-logic LD. I sure hope future Universal discs are not this way. Sure glad I didn't pre-order U-571, from now on I'll be renting before ordering - no more pre-orders on Universal titles for me.
Rich

 

[Max Leung]

I really appreciate your efforts Jackson! I don't mean to knock on Vince and Obi, but I wish they had measured their systems to get an idea of what to expect. For all we know, they have 100 subwoofers in their rooms.
Measurements is exactly the thing we need. 81 dB doesn't sound so bad...if the amp/receiver has the ability, you could bump the LFE +5 dB on your system.
I'm making the assumption that all of the bass information is there, just at a lower "volume". If this is the case, then those still having problems can work around this by simply raising the levels of the bass.
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Max Leung

 

[Matt Wiltshire]

>>> >>>Each of the 5 channels has limited bandwidth - the .1 LFE channel is there to allow bass to be added over and above what would be possible on these 5 channels due to them being heavily loaded with other, higher frequency, information. >>No. The 5 channels are FULL bandwidth. The .1 channel is limited bandwidth up to 120Hz. It is an "added effects channel" that, in my opinion, was designed specifically for drivers that can handle strong bass effects, ie., subwwofers, although its signal can be re-directed to your mains if they are set to LARGE and subwoofer is set to NO.
Jim, you misunderstood what I said. I was referring to the bandwidth of the digital bitstream rather than the audio frequency range of each channel.
After further consideration, I think it is more likely that the .1 is there due to limitations in the codec - dense, wide (audio) frequency range passages may not have enough "room" in the encoded channel to fit in all the required bass information at sufficient resoultuion, hence the .1 channel to provide extra space unencumbered by higher frequency information.
Matt
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veni, vidi, vici bibi

 

[David_ Alexander]

bottom line: why do we need to do tweaks and tricks to "try" to grab those deep bass (which are obviously missing, even routed to the sub) with this title while there's no problem with the majority of the other action packed movies, those that sound just great and punchy by just loading them in the player ?
There's a worm in this JP dvd for sure and it ain't fixed until it is fixed.
It ain't about bass management. We just had one hell of a kick with RULES OF ENGAGEMENT tonight that sounded absolutely great and powerful (there are some mighty bass there! and awesome surrounds) on a big system with speakers set to SMALL and all bass routed to the two mighty subs (crossover at 80hz).
It was a delight.
Same when we load the JP laserdisc (no matter which version): it just deconstructs one's house ! So far, those JP dvds (dd:dts) can only blow a Barbie's house away

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[Bjoern Roy]

Let me be the first to welcome Jim Jones AKA David Alexander back in the forum!

 

[David_ Alexander]

FORUM MEMBER REMOVED BY MODERATOR.
Jim/David
I reference you to your last request that you wanted to be removed from the Forum "for good."
Thanks for you understanding.
--Jay

 

[Tim K]

I think we are all missing a possible solution to this rumored "problem". Too many people are out there comparing Apples to Oranges (DTS DVD to DD DVD) and Apples to Bananas (DTS DVD to DTS LD). We need a straight Apples to Apples comparison (DTS DVD to DTS DVD). What do I mean?
Someone with (what they consider) a BAD copy send theirs to someone who is certain that they got a good copy. Let them A-B the two copies.
1 of 2 things will happen:
A) they will notice NO difference between the two versions (meaning there is no bad batch. Either this was how Universal intended the track, or all of them are faulty - if they are faulty we will certainly hear from Universal....won't we?)
B) they will actually notice a difference (meaning there IS a bad batch of DTS DVDs)
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-Tim Krug

 

[FredHD]

__________________________________________________ __________
"I think we are all missing a possible solution to this rumored "problem". Too many people are out there comparing Apples to Oranges (DTS DVD to DD DVD)"
__________________________________________________ __________
The possible flaw, IMHO, with this statement is that comparing the DVD DTS and the DVD dd versions is not really an "apples to oranges" comparison because in the reviews I read, the soundtracks were pretty close and there was no mention that one had a deeper LFE level than the other.
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"It's dangerous enough just being in the water with a shark. But when you start messing with the shark, you're really getting yourself in trouble."
-Me

 

[Tim K]

The reason I consider it apples to oranges is b/c in general, there is always some difference between the DTS and DD versions of a film. Often it the differences vary from film to film. On one it may be more LFE, on another film it may be total volume, or center channel tracks....but there is always some difference between the two. So to compare the two in this case, to see if there is a difference seems silly, because of course there is a difference. To really determine if there is a bad batch you HAVE to compare a "good" DTS disc to a "BAD" DTS disc.
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-Tim Krug

 

[Michael Langdon]

I hope this helps. I have been reading all threads relating to JP DTS DVD. I am fortunate enough to own the first DTS demo disc which contains a Jurassic Park clip (T-Rex escapes or "Where's the goat?"). Anyway, a little bit about my equipment:
Receiver: Denon 4800
Fronts: Boston Acoustics VR30 (40-20 kHz)
Center: Boston Acoustics VR12
Rears: Boston Acoustics VR30
Sub: Definitive Tech. PF1500TL
All speakers calibrated to 79 dB with exception of sub (85 dB). All speakers set to small.
I played both discs at the same volume level on the receiver. I picked various parts of the scene and measured the level using a Radio Shack analog SPL meter to determine if they were recorded at the same level. For example, I did measure the same level in the scene when the girl asks "Where's the goat?". I did the same for other scenes with dialogue. I am convinced that both discs were recorded at the same overall level.
Next I measured the best I could the stomps when the water ripples in the cups on the dashboard. There is definitely a difference. I will go as far to say a difference of at least 10 dB less on the just released JP DTS DVD as compared to the clip from DTS demo disc!
That is the best I can do. Again I have been reading these JP threads with interest. I didn't want to believe there was a problem with my JP DTS DVD. I only know that the LFE level on MY copy of JP is lacking in the LFE as compared to the DTS demo disc published a couple of years ago.

 

[brianeveritt]

Hey gang,
A little background is needed to explain my experience with the DTS JP DVD...
After purchasing my Kenwood VR-309 Receiver and a Klipsch KSW-12 sub to round out my full 5.1 system I was a bit disappointed in overall bass reproduction. After tinkering with various settings and whatnot, I decided to to a full teardown of my equipment and start from scratch. I followed the directions for the speaker setup according to the Klipsch instructions. This asked me to hook up my amp's main speaker outputs to the speaker level inputs of the sub, then hook up the mains to the sub's output posts. I was to set my mains to "full range" (i.e. large) and allow the sub's internal adjustable crossover to do the work instead of the receiver. I also connected the .1 LFE channel output from the amp to the sub's line in per directions. The odd thing was that I still had somewhat underwhelming bass.
So here's what fixed it...I actually set my receiver's subwoofer setting to "NO"! By doing so, it kicked the bass up several notches. It seems that by merely setting the subwoofer setting to yes, automatically switched on some type of internal filtering (that proved to be ineffective). Ever since, my bass reproduction has been great in everything I watch. This was all done ~6 months ago.
So given this layout I watched some scenes from the DTS JP DVD and the bass was thunderous. Almost overwhelming levels of sound in several scenes. Especially good where the Brachiosaurus (sp?) coming back down to all fours after standing on it's hind legs, and the entire scene of the T-Rex first attacking the guest Jeeps. I am very pleased.
So I think the original post starting this thread has some merit. Your setup can be an issue. For any of you with subs that have line level inputs, are you using them? Sorry this was so long. Late.
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