I have two words for you...Bass Management UPDATED! (1 Viewer)

[Tom-G]

I did a comparison betweed the DD and DTS versions tonight. No, it was not scientific and I know that, but I just wanted to see if I could tell a difference without the use of fance gadgetry.
I still prefer the DTS version and the bass in the DD version isn't better, or more pronounced as others are saying. They both sound good, but DTS sounds better. Just my opinion.
I just don't understand why everyone is so up in arms about the sound. I think it has to do with everyone's expectations. Hell, even I was starting to think that the DTS versions were inferior.
I think Vince put all of that to rest though with his well thought out posts.
------------------
As for the bad rap about the characters--hey,I've seen space operas that put their emphasis on human personalities and relationships. They're called "Star Trek" movies. Give me transparent underwater cities and vast hollow senatorial spheres any day. --Roger Ebert

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

I think Vince put all of that to rest though with his well thought out posts.

I dunno guys, at this rate I might finally be in the running for that Golden Speaker award...
Thanks everyone for the kind words, and an excellent discussion: 300 posts- not too shabby!

Vince
------------------
http://www.musicianassist.com
Want to join our Ohio Hometheater Club? Click Here .
I'm giving away my CDs! Click Here .

 

[EricK]

Tom:
Have you heard the LaserDisc versions?
Frankly between the Dolby DVD and the DTS DVD there isnt much of a difference. They are both bright harsh and lacking in solid gut wrenching hard hitting bass!
Eric.

 

[Tom-G]

Eric,
No, I haven't heard the Jurassic Park LD, but I'm hoping to remedy that soon.
I really think that people's expectations were so high for the Jurassic Park discs because everyone raves about the DTS LD versions.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't be raving about the LDs. I'm sure they are incredible, but I'm just pointing out that the expectation levels were ridiculously high!
------------------
As for the bad rap about the characters--hey,I've seen space operas that put their emphasis on human personalities and relationships. They're called "Star Trek" movies. Give me transparent underwater cities and vast hollow senatorial spheres any day. --Roger Ebert

 

[Mark Zimmer]

So Vince, if I understand the earlier posts right, if my mains aren't rated down to 20 Hz they should be set to small. My mains are rated down to 25 Hz....is that close enough? I rather prefer the way they sound at large as opposed to small, so I probably won't change them but I'd like to understand how the supposed optimal is supposed to work.
Thanks
Mark
------------------
For 11+ hours of Beethoven music available nowhere else, visit www.unheardbeethoven.org (New Second Millennium update done 5/31/00 )
Check out my reviews at http://www.digitallyobsessed.com

 

[Bill Lucas]

Mark,
I'll state it one MORE time.
The rating of your mains is of no consequence. How much output is there at 25hz? That's the question. If they play to 25hz but only at 65db then you shouldn't run them that low. Regards.

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

So Vince, if I understand the earlier posts right, if my mains aren't rated down to 20 Hz they should be set to small. My mains are rated down to 25 Hz....is that close enough? I rather prefer the way they sound at large as opposed to small, so I probably won't change them but I'd like to understand how the supposed optimal is supposed to work.

Mark,
I think 25 vs 20hz, it's a judgement call. I would first verify "how" they're rated to 25 hz. Do they mean FLAT response down to 25hz, do they mean all signals down to 25hz are within +/-5db? Some even rate +/- 10db!
If they are down to 25hz, +/- 10db, then I wouldn't really consider this a speaker which goes to 25. I think the valid low point for your speakers is within 3 db.
But lets say you find out your speakers go down to 35hz +/-3, I still think that is probably good enough. Will you be missing some bass if you use the large setting? Yes you will, but probably not enough to seriously take away from your enjoyment.
So, again, I offer that if you can get flat response from your mains into the mid-30's... then the setting issue is really a judgement call. You might miss out on some umph on a handful of discs: but if you perfer the Large setting on your system: I am certainly not one to argue with that!
-vince
------------------
http://www.musicianassist.com
Want to join our Ohio Hometheater Club? Click Here .
I'm giving away my CDs! Click Here .

 

[Mikey P]

Vince,
Thanks for your detailed explanation of my "10 db headroom" question. My confusion was in thinking that instead of 0db being the absolute speed limit, on the LFE track -10db became the absolute speed limit. Now that you have explained that 0db remains the speed limit, and you can record in the -10db to 0db range it all makes sense.
You do a great job of educating us on sound recording.
------------------
-mikep

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

double post, sorry

 

[RicP]

I just don't understand what you guys are arguing about!
Of course JP doesn't have as much LFE as The Haunting!!
I mean, Sheesh Everyone knows that ghosts produce much more LFE than Dinosaurs! Geez...

------------------
Ric Perrott

My Theater
No Animals were harmed to create this message...
However a great number of electrons were somewhat inconvenienced.

 

[EricK]

Tom:
My problem isn't so much expectations because I listened to the LaserDiscs well before the DVD's came out..... Its that the DVD's sound *SO* much different (subjective, of course) and that is not just my opinion but the opinion of others here.
Unfortunately on this forum, we all live in so many different areas of the country and world, that its hard to convey a subjective point sucessfully to someone else on here. Sadly I can't just call Vince, or Obi, or you and say come on over and check this out. I'd want you guys to hear this on my system. Experience what I experience so that you can understand where I am coming from.
What I do know is this, I've been involved in Home Theater for a decade or so. I've been a student of it for that long. I know my system is set up properly. I check it every few months to make sure that it is set up properly. I can even be anal sometimes about it.
Which leads me to my conclusions about the DVD's. While the DVD's may not be defective per se, in my opinion, they are! Like I stated before there is just such a huge difference between the DVD's and the LaserDiscs. The difference is so pronounced that it leads one to believe that the DVD's are or were mastered or manufactured improperly.
I just find it hard to swallow that one has to change the settings on his system for one disc! I know that one person on here made the argument for compact disc music and sound level for each individual disc. He said that every c.d. has different overall sound levels, so therefore DVD is the same way (in theory) and one needs to change his system accordingly. But 2-channel music (or multi channel music) is and always will be different then multi-channel (5.1/6.1) movies.
There is an intention to modify, if you will, the sound of the music. One can change the overall level of bass or treble and still not lose sight of the music itself. Or the intent of the music. Changing the lyrics of the music will change the intent of the music. Of course we all know that if you change the level of bass or treble in a musical selection, too much or too little would destroy the sound of the music itself or take away the appeal of listening to the music.
In movies, if you follow THX principles, tone controls are "defeated" when movie soundtracks are played back. One is supposed to play a movie back FLAT. A good example of this is a movie like Star Wars. We all know that there should be a certain amount of bass when the Death Star is destroyed at the climax of the movie. Changing that bass effect either +dB's or -dB's would in effect change the intention of the sound design and directors intent. Too much or too little bass and you wouldn't believe the explosion. It would remove you from the movie. Too much treble and you would have to walk out because it may hurt your ears to listen to it. Too little treble and it might sound too dull.
The problem I had with JP (both DVD'S) was that they both had way too much treble (more then normal, leading to a harsh, very bright track) and too little bass (leading to a loss of "suspension of disbelief.") When the T-REX roars you should hear and FEEL it. The LaserDiscs had none of these problems. Neither LaserDisc was bright or harsh and both had what seemed to be a satisfying level of bass. I will also say that the one major difference between the 2 LaserDiscs was the surround channels. The DTS LaserDisc definitely had a "beefier" surround then the Dolby Digital. As far as bass was concerned.....both discs were tremendous and maybe...by a slight margin the DTS Laser had better bass, which was probably a bit tighter and punchier then the Dolby Digital Laser.
Any other DVD that I have experienced would be perfectly satisfying. I will admit that I have heard some discs with bright soundtracks, etc.....but none that were as bright as this one in particular.
I for one want what was originally intended for the audience, and if that means that when the Raptor in the cage growls at the park employee, and the intent is to shake one in his seat, then thats what I want! I want to feel the raptor growling....
I know I have rambled a bit but I hope I am making some sense! LOL
Eric.

 

[Patrick Sun]

EricK, thanks for summing up what I also feel on this topic w/r/t the audio on LDs and DVDs. There is a difference and usually I will prefer the LD audio track over the DVD version. That's just been my experience, and if the LD audio tracks are too juiced up, well, so be it, I like them.

------------------
PatCave ; HT Pix ; HT Gear ; Sunosub ; Pat's DVDs ; Link Removed

 

[MarkO]

dupe

 

[MarkO]

Eric,,,,,I Agree 100%. Im not usually a stickler for perfection but these disks mark the first time ever I wished the stores offered a return policy on movie software. Lets face it, Jurassic Park stands on audio and eyecandy alone, and its hard to stand on one foot for long.

 

[Timmy]

I just find it hard to swallow that one has to change the settings on his system for one disc!

Eric, that just about sums it up for me. Way back when I originally experimented with small/large settings; the couple of movies I used all pointed to the "Large" setting as giving the best sound for my setup.
Although what bothers me more is that some believe that one uniquely mixed soundtrack (how'd you like that wording Vince ) out of hundreds of DVDs, has shown a "flaw" in my setup????????
If it was the other way around, then I would give serious thought about my hardware setup as being flawed.
------------------

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

Obi,
While I agree with most of what you are saying, the idea of the defects between the DTS and DD versions of JP are no longer really just opinions. There is now some science, in the forms of Terry's graphs, which 100% show exactly whatI had said earlier in this very thread: when properly level matched, the DD DVD has significantly more bass in the LFE channel...
I have to point everyone that this discussion has carried over to the thread titled:
*** Its done, Jurassic Park DD and DTS measured and graphed!
currently located at: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/Forum15/HTML/019497.html
Want to join our Ohio Hometheater Club? Click Here .
I'm giving away my CDs! Click Here .