HTF Anime Discussion Part VIII (1 Viewer)

[TheLongshot]

Yeah, considering at one time, it seemed everyone was hopping on the bandwagon (Remember Synch-Point? TokyoPop?), a shakedown was inevitable.

ADV just seems to be trying to get too big, spreading out to other things, and not really being very good at any of them. The music licences haven't been successful. The home grown productions (Sin, Lady Death) failed. I'm not sure how they are doing with manga or the Anime Network, but I can't see either really being big business for them. I have a feeling they will survive in some form, but they may not end up being the top dogs anymore. Certainly they have some decent shows (Chrono Crusade, Elfin Leid, Full Metal Panic), but they have a lot of crap as well.

I think Bandai will probably be fine. They still seem to have a good relationship with their parent company. AnimeEgo will probably survive doing their niche work. They've always been small, and will continue on. In fact, if things do compress, they may end up being the beneficiaries of some things.

Jason

 

[Alanna]

The only singles I'm currently collecting is Scrapped Princess. I simply cannot justify paying $17-$25 for a DVD anymore. I just don't have the funds to even buy most movies that come out that I would like to own. Just simply cannot afford it, especially with the higher gas prices and the long trip to work every day. However, shelling out $30 or less for a whole series is justifiable since it likely won't be blown through in a whole afternoon, which is why almost all the anime I have bought this year has been ADVs boxsets. I'm willing to even get stuff that I normally would ignore like Final Fantasy Unlimited or Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi (which I am really liking right now). It may end up being the ruin of the industry but I'm loving it right now and otherwise would not be spending any money on anime at all and only renting instead.

Maybe alot of the anime fans are getting older and don't have the kind of disposable incomes that they used to? Just a thought.

 

[Kong Chang]

Jason:

What is keeping AnimEigo afloat are hardcore old fans from the 1980s who are older and have jobs and can pay the upfront boxset price that AnimEigo does with pre-orders of their titles. If they maintain a high profile old title to diehard old anime fans, they can keep their cash flow steady. But in terms of being popular and big, they won't be since they don't have the cash to pay for the ludicrous licensing cost of new shows. There are still lots of old shows unlicensed made in the 1980s that needs to be released in the states that many of us have grown up on. Stuff like Rose of Versailles, Ace wo Nerae, Space Runway Ideon, Yawara, Ashita no Joe, etc. are pretty popular series that have yet to be licensed.

ADV's problem is that they cater to the lowest denominator, usually those who are poor and cheap and are under age 18, rather to those who have money, and loads of it and have a job and are over age 18. Therein lies the problem.

I mean, if you were a business, who would you listen to more, a group that is dirt poor cheap and usually doesn't buy individual volumes, or a group that is rich and wealthy and willing to buy individual volumes so you can make a good profit? This is a no brainer, but ADV chooses the former, for whatever reason, I don't know.

Oh, I forgot to mention, Funimation is a great company because they do are fans of anime that download fansubs of new shows. Hahaha...great stuff...


Max:

Piracy of R1 on the internet is not as bad as piracy of R1 and then resold back to R1 market as a cheaper alternative. At least the people on the internet are not profitting off other people's work. Yeah, it does cut into sales, but you have to remember, only a fraction of the U.S. have broadband. It may seem like everyone has broadband, but not so unfortunately. Most users are still on dial-up believe or not. So only those fortunate with great broadband will probably download (not all download legit releases though). So, those with no broadband have to buy and they tend to come from the lower income status, so they usually buy from recommendations or have seen on TV.

The thing to note is that recommendations come from those who have seen the show previously, which is why fansubs of new shows are important, because these people give out the early buzz-worthy talk about shows that people expect. Not having fansubs of the entire series can break the R1 market industry because then a lot of us cannot say if the series will end up good or bad which in turn will make a good sell or not in the R1 market. Good to excellent series will turn a nice profit no matter what. Mediocre to bad series is a risk factor especially if the licensing costs are high on these type of series.

Alanna:

If they are making money and have no one else to spend their money on but themselves, which is what a true Otaku is, btw, then they can afford anything. Those with family and mouths to feed don't have the cash flow to spend on frivolous hobbies like anime.

 

[JohnAD]

My $.02:

Unless someone here works for ADV, and has access to their books, I would suggest holding off on commenting on their financial standings since anything said here will be speculation at best. As for them selling 'crap', that's very much in the eye of the beholder. Look at Funimation. All their current success is built upon them selling Dragonball Z cheaply in large volumes. Clearly, that strategy can and has worked.

John.

 

[Woo Jae]

I do generally agree with Kong on what in my opinion is ADV's not so smart stance of selling boxsets so quickly. For someone how doesn't collect things as they come out, or gets anime used and would like to get teh individual volumes, a quick box set is not that beneficial. For example, I have ended up double dipping when all I needed was 1 dvd (usually the last one) of a series has been released in a box set - and due to the boxsets being out, I cannot find the individual volume anywhere for sale ( I don't bother w/ ebay).

I do agree that JohnAD is right in pointing out that what we are complaining about is basically monday mornin' quarterbacking or rather hindsight is 20/20. It's upto ADV to figure out what is best for their profit margin, and live and die by their business practices. And boxsets overall have been well received by fans - old and new alike. But there are downsides to boxsets that aren't discussed.

I've managed to update my dvd profiler with new items, and also watched the 7 part OVA of Mazinkaiser released by ADV on 2 dvds. A B series at best with updated SuperRobot action was fun, but not as good as Getter Robo Armageddon (not enough hotbloodedness for me).

Other series I'd recommend for those interested is as usual Hajime no Ippo or Fighting Spirit. Not much in teh way of extras but with five episodes per dvd, an awesome cast of characters and outrageous humor, I highly recommend this character driven down to earth boxing sports anime.

 

[Max Leung]

Kong: You are probably right. I was PO'd last year when a shop selling legit R2 and R3 DVDs went out of business. They claimed it was because of the bootleg shops taking away there business (funny how my friend bought a fansubbed bootleg of Inuyasha season one from them a year earlier though).

They had a point though - a shop unabashedly selling bootlegs just opened across the street. Admittedly, I bought a bootlegged movie from one of these stores once - it wouldn't even play in my DVD player, so I never bothered again. It was also a chore trying to watch Full Metal Panic from an Engrish sub of the region 3 release when I borrowed a bootleg of it from a friend (it was nicely packaged so I wasn't sure about that for a while). Bah - just say no to bootlegs! Quality is just horrid.

It amazes me that no one has tried shutting it down before. The store is on one of the busiest streets in the city, in the heart of downtown. I shake my head whenever my gf's parents buy a bootleg of a region 3 DVD (for $5! Oooooh).

Fortunately, the store is closing out - guess there isn't much profit to be had when you only make a buck on each (poor quality) DVD sold. But there are still a few others around...

I really would like to start Fighting Spirit - I just need to finish Twelve Kingdoms and Fruits Basket first...quite a difficult task considering the problems I'm having with Zip.ca these last 6 weeks!

 

[Max Leung]

Succumbing to my weaknesses I picked up "Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex Log 1" today. Nearly $50 CDN. Ooops, that's half the price of the Berserk collection or the price of two pre-order copies of Gankutsuou.

Oh well.

 

[ChristopherDAC]

People are petty.

I was in the Half Price Books, looking through the markdown CDs, and I came across an EverAnime CD of something called "Lunar: Magical Island Vol. 1" with no pricetag or disc. The guy at the counter opined that it had been shrinkwrapped and somebody had torn that off and pocketed the disc, leaving the jewel case and the insert behind. Can you believe that? Ripping off a Taiwan-bootleg CD from the bargain bin of a used-and-closeout bookstore... :rolleyes

 

[TheLongshot]

Well, as you say below, a lot of those people have kids and other commitments. At the same time, you go to a con, and I'd say the majority are in that bracket of being young and poor. It looks like ADV is trying to make things up on volume. Course, the amount of stuff they keep putting on clearance can't be good for them.

Jason

 

[Woo Jae]

The series "clicked" for me when I reached ep 15. After a certain bout, I realized that this was a must have series for many many reasons, with the best being the terrific cast of the Hajime no Ippo characters. I was and still am a sucker for sports anime, but am still surprised something this good is being released in R1. I gotta thank Geneon/Pioneer for their willingness to release this awesome show here....

 

[JohnAD]

Max:

You got it for cheap then, because the MSRP is $50 US. It's a rare thing for a Japanese 'extra' like this to show up in R1.

John.

 

[Max Leung]

Yeah. For some reason all of the Ghost in the Shell DVDs are "cheap". The DD5.1-only versions are around the $22-26 CDN mark.

I snuck a peak at Log 1 last night for a few minutes - I really need to brush up on my subtitle reading skills - I had to pause every couple of seconds they moved so fast. The subs were for the small Japanese text that appeared in every scene. It seems they didn't alter the original R2 content in any way except for the addition of subs, which I needed to turn on in the Setup menu on my HTPC as they weren't on by default.

So far, I like the included book better, but I need to watch the interviews. Good thing I didn't rent the disc!

I only have one more disc to go in Twelve Kingdoms. For a moment there I thought the series was already over in Episode 39! But, there is one more loose end I hope they cover.

A+ series for me. Once I finish it and get a salary increase I will look to buying the complete set.

Other things about 12 Kingdoms: Animation quality is generally good, although it seems later on that they skimped a little - less character movements, more still images with panning shots. Character designs seem to change a little between different scenes in the same episode - kind of odd, but probably an artistic choice. I suspect if I go back to the beginning that they would look different from near the end. Not a big deal though . I am quite impressed how unique each character is - none of this "pretty boy with blue hair, pretty boy with green hair".

 

[Andrew Beacom]

Whats in the Gits Log?

 

[DaveGTP]

I'm in Alanna's boat. With a kid on the way (with no health insurance), fulltime school and fulltime work for both of us, we don't have the cash to spend on anime.

Kong,
Even then, most price drops are caused by box sets coming out. I mean, they have 1 disc of 7 sitting in the store for $20, or the entire set for $65. ADV brings out the condensed box sets so fast. I was slowly picking up individual volumes of Full Metal Panic when I could get a deal on them ($10-$15 apiece or so). Then the thinpack set comes out. Do I finish buying the single discs or buy the thinpack set for less than half the price? I either have to unload the old volumes or pay extra to finish the set. This is why I stopped buying anime (along with increased spending on video games and a tighter budget).

Personally I've always though anime was kind of overpriced, but I don't like to pirate stuff, so I pick it up on the cheap. A season of anime should have a price premium for some localization, but MSRP $30x7 discs = $210!! That's absurdly high in my book, and I've paid it only for a few shows I really wanted badly (Banner of the Stars, for example, I bought each disc on release). Even at $15 a disc that's $105. I prefer ADV's thinpak boxes, honestly, but the 2-version double dip has me just waiting for a the box, now. Either release one or the other IMO. Perhaps they should be pricing their boxes a bit higher, or the individual discs lower. I dunno. But I'm not buying individual discs at $30 when they will re-price the show to like a third of the initial price in less than a year.

 

[DennyH]

I just finished 12 Kingdoms. What a great series. Just wish they would finish it up with a few more episodes.

 

[Max Leung]

Andrew: GITS: SAC Log 1 contains one single-layer disc (filled up to 4.4 gigs of content - surprised me) and a full-color book with interviews with the creators, brief history of the franchise, descriptions of each episode up to 19 along with little tidbits and trivia in the episode (I assume Log 2 will be 20-26), character design sketches, etc.

Rather pricey at $48 CDN, but then cheaper than in the states somehow. I bought it on impulse. It does seem unaltered from the Japanese release - no dubbing of the interviews, just subtitles. But I haven't finished the disc yet.

DennyH: Yeah, I just finished it. Damn, I was hoping they would tie up the loose end earlier in the series:

The Taiho that fled back to Hourai, with his caretaker committing mysterious murders.

It is a great series. Now if only someone would get Legend of Galactic Heroes licensed...

 

[ChristopherDAC]

I have to side with Kong on this one, to an extent at least. How high is the price of U.S. domestic anime, all things considered? You can go out to a local store and buy anime DVDs, at a considerably lower per-episode price than the same show is released at in Japan, even leaving out exchange, shipping, and all the other costs of importation. That would be a bargain even if all that was available were plain Japanese editions, but in fact you get English translation rolled into that. It's an amazing deal.
From another perspective, is the per-episode price really that far out of line with the usual run of TV and movie DVDs? Really, I think ADV's trouble is just their attempt to be all things to all men. They license shows at absurdly high prices, then find they have trouble making their money back; it doesn't take a genius to see that they ought to show their sales figures to the Japanese licensors during negotiations, to show the latter that their apparent opinions about the value of the U.S. anime market are wildly inflated. So they panic and release the same thing again at a lower price point too early on, thus killing the demand for the more lucrative editions, while simultaneously continuing to snatch up more non-self-supporting properties. Of course, part of that is the retailers, many of whom refuse to stock single-disc editions because of shelf-space, inventory, and similar issues, and are always demanding new product because they think that encourages quick stock turnaround.

 

[ChristopherDAC]

On a completely unrelated note, I've been duping music from my LaserDisc collection to .WAV files for making mix CDs. In the process, I was reminded that I must recommend Bubblegum Crisis to anybody who hasn't watched and listened to it. Not the "Crash" OVA, or the TV "2040" remake, or the "ADPolice" spinoff series, but the clear quill, 8-episode OVA; and not the dub either! If you really hate subtitles, this is one to just listen to in Japanese -- leave the subs off and just listen to the voices. It's not perfect, but BGC is a wonderful piece of work, and the audio work is lovingly crafted. I don't know of another anime series with the same, hmm, "hip-hop-and-it-don't-stop" attitude, presenting several good new musical selections in every episode. A treat for the eyes and ears, even if it is seventeen years dated by now.

 

[ChristopherDAC]

Happy Hallowe'en to a zombie of a thread.

 

[Max Leung]

~~~~grrrrr~~~~bbbiiiiishhhiiii!!~~~arrrghh!