Horror Movie Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Kevin M]

I disagree, it's countless satiric homages to the zombie genre classify it as a satire of horror, not a horror film in itself...any more than Young Frankenstein was a horror film because it had some very atmospheric settings, it was a satire. Shaun is far more comedic than frightening, I mean I don't want to drag it down into an anal debate but the film was at least 80% comedic, hell the end has a zombie reality gameshow! How can you not see that as comedy/satire?

 

[Michael Elliott]

Going by last year's Horror Challenge, I think it's best for the viewer to pick what a horror film is. There are so many subgenres that it's nearly impossible to say what a horror film really is. Giallo, cannibal, nunsploitation, exploitation, naziploitation and so on. These are mostly viewed by horror fans and while they're not horror ala Hammer and Universal, I guess they fit in the genre.

However, I don't think THE EXORCIST, ROSEMARY'S BABY and PSYCHO are horror films so.....

 

[Kevin M]

Yeah, but did THE EXORCIST, ROSEMARY'S BABY or PSYCHO have the phrase "Ohh..cockicidal maniac"? ...well..maybe The Exorcist but apart from that...

 

[Matt Stone]

I do, but just because it's part of one genre doesn't mean it's not part of another.

 

[Kevin M]

Ok, but to compare it to strait films in the genre it is satirizing seems a bit odd to me, it's like calling Young Frankenstein not as good as Frankenstein because it wasn't as scary...well, it's not the same thing is it? Unlike Evil Dead 2 or Return Of The Living Dead I don't think Shaun was going for the odd hybrid, I think it was a strait satire of the genre it loved, or at the very least 80% to 90% pure satire.

 

[Matt Stone]

That's fine, but I think you're splitting hairs. If you don't want to think of Shaun as a horror flick at all, that's fine with me. I see it as part of a horror-comedy sub-genre (not unlike Dead & Breakfast). There was enough horror stuff (protagonists dealing with the zombie problem, cat and mouse chase scenes, watching a main character turn into a zombie) for me to classify it as a horror film. Obviously it's a satire, but I think it works on both levels.

If we were talking about the Scary Movie films, I'd totally agree with you. But again, I think it's personal preference.

 

[Kevin M]

Well, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree Matt, I think comparing a horror satire to other horror films from the same year and saying that "it wasn't as good" isn't a fair comparison, they aren't the same animal.
BTW:.

 

[Justin_S]

Dog Soldiers is one of the best werewolf films out there. The werewolf subgenre is one that hasn't really been explored enough IMO, and many of the films that have involved lycanthropy just aren't that good. Marshall really delivered with this film though.

I've been reading about The Descent for the last couple of months now. It sounds like it has the potential to be a pretty visceral, creepy film, and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing it. I believe Lions Gate has the rights to an American relase, but I'm not going to wait around for them. I'll buy the upcoming UK DVD.

On another note, I think Shaun of the Dead is pretty damn overrated no matter what its classified as. I enjoyed the film well enough, but I wouldn't call it great, and its certainly not the holy grail that many have made it out to be.


Hehe, coincidentally, I just ordered the film's soundtrack from Xploited this past Friday. I just love that score.

 

[Matt Stone]

Huh? When I did I say that? That wasn't my point at all.

 

[Kevin M]

That's been my point the whole way, to compare Shaun to other straight horror films isn't a fair comparison, it like comparing Young Frank....you know the rest.

Oh, I misquoted Amy on one thing, I've been saying that she stated that they came out in the "same year", Dog & 28 were from the same year but Shaun wasn't, sorry.

 

[Matt Stone]

Yah, I read Amy's post, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Sorry for the confusion...we were apparently arguing two different points.

 

[EricSchulz]

Yikes! Let's hope they do a better job than they did with the US release of Haute Tension.

 

[Kevin M]

Not a problem but I thought my post #161 made it clear, no I don't think a satire of a genre makes it that genre.
If you don't agree with my not feeling that a satire of a genre necessarily makes it that genre then, yes, we disagree on that because I think that, although they are obviously connected, they still operate on very different levels and therefore can't be connected so directly in classification.

But in the end that wasn't my point in saying "Shaun is a Horror Movie?".

 

[Matt Stone]

Understood, Kevin. I didn't mean to sound pissy if I did. I still think that while Shaun is definitely a satire, it has horror elements (no matter how loaded with humor) and can be considered a horror-comedy (along with films like Bad Taste, Dead-Alive, and Dead & Breakfast). That being said, I do agree with what you're saying. Merely satirizing elements from a genre does not make it a part of that genre (Scary Movie would be my example here).



At least it looks like LG is making good on the DVD release.

 

[EricSchulz]

I watched Dog Soldiers today and thought it was OK. There were several really enthusiastic recommendations for it so maybe my expectations were too high. I also watched Shutter this weekend (a Thai horror film, IIRC) and really recommend it. A cut above the current Asian horror releases.

 

[Justin_S]

I watched Argento's The Card Player for the first time a month or so ago. I had heard almost nothing but bad things about it, so I wasn't sure what to expect. As a huge Argento fan, I was prepared for another big letdown in the vein of Phantom of the Opera or, to a lesser extent, Trauma. When all was said and done though, and the credits were rolling, I was very pleased.

It is definitely a major change from Argento's prior films, but I'm not one to fear change, especially not when said change brings about such an interesting film. This isn't a generic mystery thriller that seems like something out of Hollywood. I've heard it described as such on numerous occasions, but I beg to differ. The film's mystery is quite intriguing, and all of the scenes of police work and puzzle solving always maintain interest. The card duels, while perhaps a silly sounding idea on paper, work very well in keeping up the tension levels. It also helps that Argento has the victims on screen via webcam every time there's a duel. It gives the scenes more weight when you actually see what you're playing for. The first actual duel makes for a painfully grim scene, as the police lose every single round. There's not an ounce of hope.

The two leads give excellent performances. Stefania Rocca and Liam Cunningham have good chemistry, and they make for two of Argento's most likeable leads. They're relationship never feels forced either. It feels quite natural, and this is obviously a good thing, especially though since it pays off later in the film. Many of the supporting characters are dubbed rather poorly, but it didn't really distract me. It was great to see Fiore Argento on screen again too.

The lack of gore doesn't hurt the film even the slightest bit. Argento may be known for inventive, gruesome murder scenes, but the lack of gore here actually adds to the impact. When we see these women being killed on the computer screen, we don't actually see them being killed in the literal sense because the killer's damage is being done offscreen. This makes the scenes more compelling, at least to me anyway. The examinations of the bodies are about as gory as this film gets, and that's just fine.

Another complaint I've seen thrown around is that this looks like a TV movie. I disagree with this completely. The camerawork is often stunning, and it reminded me of some of the most beautiful giallos of the 70s with its wonderful shots of the surrounding environment. Argento also makes wonderful use of colors and shadows to further flesh out his story. One of the scenes that is simply classic Argento is when Anna is riding with the killer and she realizes he's the Card Player when she sees all the little plant seeds flying everywhere.
It makes for a beautiful scene, and its just the type of thing you'd expect from Argento.

There are many other standout scenes as well. The sequence where Anna is attacked by the killer in her home is really well done, and very creepy too. The way Argento has her discover the killer's presence by seeing his reflection in the vase is both a clever use of the surroundings and very unnerving. John's discovery of the killer's hideout is also wonderful. His unexpected demise is one of the film's few gruesome moments, and since he is such a likeable character, it is also a hard hitting development. Then there's the final sequence on the train tracks. Some people hate this ending, but I think its unique and fun.


Anyway, after viewing this, I really don't understand its bad reputation. I loved it, and I think after a few more viewings, it could actually become one of my favorite Argento films. It is certainly nowhere near the bottom tier.

 

[Christopher B]

Going back to the the Shaun of the Dead satire idea....

For me, the thing that makes a movie a satire or a combination of genre's, is how each aspect of each genre is treated. If each genre is treated with respect and not as a joke, then I feel it is a combination and not a satire. Scary Movie is a satire because it makes fun of horror movies and all of the traditional trappings of horror movies. You never really are afraid of the killer because you never really care if the characters are killed anyway. The characters are just there to support the jokes. Young Frankenstein is another of these movies that totally takes apart the Frankenstein story for a laugh. You are never really afraid of the Frankenstein monster because he is tap dancing or having hot soup poured into his lap, not killing people. Even the name Frankenstein is played for laughs.

A movie like Shaun of the Dead, although it is a comedy, is also a zombie movie where the zombies are real and will kill you, or are we not using the zed word? Nobody is laughing when David gets torn apart and eaten by Zombies, or when Shaun's Mum takes a turn for the worst. Shaun steps into satire territory at the very end when the Zombies are now being used in the service industry and on TV shows. Up until that point I feel it is a Comedy/Horror movie, or like the makers call it, a romantic comedy with Zombies.

 

[Matt Stone]

I wanted to bring up Cannibal Holocaust. I know this has already been discussed a lot (probably even in this thread), but I just watched it yesterday and wanted to get a new discussion started. To me it was damn near spot perfect. Direction was stronger than Last House, and the events of the film were horrific. Combined with the haunting score, this film knocked my socks off. What is everyone's opinion?

 

[Matt Stone]

Ah, and another quick question about Cannibal Holocaust. I see that a 2-disc DVD is due to be released at the end of the month. Will this be unedited?

 

[Ruz-El]

I saw this back in the summer for the first time, but was a little cool on it. While it deffinatly deserves it reputation, I found the overall pacing and cheapness to be a let down. The score was fantastic though, and definately helped to create the haunting atmosphere, it just never got that tense to me, other than the grinding gore (I admit, I have no idea how they did the ending, it was so realistic thecleaving of the bodies as the film ran out
). Maybe it was high expectations that let me down, but I prefered "Mountain Of the Cannibal God", as it had a better story and more gonzo fun to it (Stacy Keach, Ursula Andress nude and that pig fucker). CH I think would of played better in a "Blair Witch" way, run the "found" documentry as a true story and leave it at that. The form of the film, with the constant interruptions to the guy in the studio watching the film, kind of ruined it for me.

I totally missed that a 2 disc version is coming out. The copy I borrowed from a friend was definately an internet bootleg. I'm sure all the gore is in it, but I'm not sure if improved picture and sound is going to help this. Unless there is a really great documentary on disc 2, I'll probably skip it. But than, I might get it, as it is a hallmark film of the genre. I'm really torn on this one!