Holly Smokes...Die Another Day DD track is HOT!!! (1 Viewer)

[Paul_Stachniak]

I didn't mean it to be hostile.

 

[Adam Barratt]

Two common ways that the average levels can be cranked on a DD track are via dialog normalization and some form of dynamic range compression (typically peak limiting with look ahead limiters).

Dialog Normalization is an attenuation system. It doesn't/can't increase playback volume.

Adam

 

[David Coleman]

Yes this film is VERY loud!!! It was that way in the theater and in skimming through the disc it's the same way with both DD/DTS!!

Not overcooked like GOLDENEYE was though!!

Hey I really like the extended video option! I wish more discs were produced like that!! It's certainly worthwhile pricewise (BB $14.99).

 

[greg_t]

http://www.videophile.info/Graphs/Blade2/Blade2_01.htm

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

I finally had a chance to watch the DVD and compare the soundtracks. To my ears, the DD5.1 sounds way better than the DTS, but not because of the codecs. The DD track is on the hot side, but the DTS sounds like DC current running through your speaker wires. The limiting/compression sounds much more severe on the DTS. It's like there are loud parts, soft parts, and very little in between.

Regards,

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

I think dolby suffers from the necessity to have to downmix to anything.

Amen. The nice thing about LaserDiscs is that the people who owned them were pretty much all audiophile freaks. The curse of DVD is that it is popular, and therefore has to "sound okay" on anything and everything.

I remember getting my THX Star Wars LD and thinking "Man, this sounds pretty weak," and then I got a new amp and preamp (I was using a cheap-ish pro logic all in one amp before) and spun Star Wars and went "Holy crap, this sounds way better."

It was like night and day.

But then GoldenEye, which had sounded killer on the old amp, sounded perversely overcooked. It was, as far as I can recall, the only disc that was not improved with my better system. But when the vast majority have inexpensive gear, why wouldn't you want to make your stuff sound best for them? What's the point in optimizing it for the handful of picky folks?

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

But when the vast majority have inexpensive gear, why wouldn't you want to make your stuff sound best for them? What's the point in optimizing it for the handful of picky folks?

Because a track that sounds killer on great equipment will sound killer on just about any equipment whereas a track that is optimized for bad equipment will sound bad on good equipment. Otherwise, they may as well optimize for tracks to be played through tinny TV speakers.

Regards,

 

[Joshua_Y]

Listened to both the DD and DTS tracks last night and couldnt really tell that much of a difference...if ya ask me...the DTS mix sounded a little more "full" than the DD...not that much at that...

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

Because a track that sounds killer on great equipment will sound killer on just about any equipment whereas a track that is optimized for bad equipment will sound bad on good equipment.

So explain GoldenEye. Tracks that I now recognize the full brilliance of sounded bland or mediocre on my old system. Some tracks, like GoldenEye and the PCM track on The Phantom Menace sound so overcooked on the good system but sounded great on the old system. These same complaints surface about certain new DVDs being overcooked or overly bassy, but they sound really "good" on weaker systems.

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

By the way, I am not condoning or recommending that sound be optimized for less-good systems, I am just saying that it makes sense that it is being done.

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

So explain GoldenEye. Tracks that I now recognize the full brilliance of sounded bland or mediocre on my old system. Some tracks, like GoldenEye and the PCM track on The Phantom Menace sound so overcooked on the good system but sounded great on the old system.

My explanation: Without being able to verify, I am guessing that your old system was not as good as your new system. I bet if you went back to your old system, the stuff you thought sounded great would not sound so hot anymore, and you would also like some of the stuff that you previously dismissed. Your ears are now used to being spoiled. I have not personally ever had an experience like you described with one of my system upgrades, so that's all I could come up with.

Regards,

 

[Tino]

Glad to hear that the DD track is so good, considering that the dts track is out of sync, at least on my system and many others according to the other thread.

Will finish watching it tonight after watching the first half hour out of sync last night.

 

[Grant H]

I found the DTS out of sync at times on mine too. Glad to see I'm not the only one.

 

[Chuck Bogie]

So, should I drop my SPR DD version off at the used disk store, and pick up the DTS version?

 

[Gruson]

"The Sauron LFE was way way cooked too loud. It wasn't like that theatrically, and it shouldn't have been like that at home."

This has to be the funniest comment I have ever seen.

I cannot even remember the last time I actually heard any good LFE in a theater. It has been years and I live in Dallas, TX.

I cannot understand why theaters keep the volume so low. When something explodes, etc. I should feel the LFE.

That never happens anymore, not since Northpark 1 and 2 were shut down years ago. I have tried The Galaxy, Keystone, Cinemarks, and nothing is ever up to my standards.

WHERE THE HELL IS THE VOLUME!??!?!

My home theater ($10-15k) kills the local movie houses.

I actually prefer waiting for DVDs now or HD broadcasts of movies since the theater always gets something wrong.

 

[Anthony Urzi]

loud is good
LFE is good

I have the same complaint about modern day movie experiences though, their really not pushing the capabilities fo their systems, cus peopel complaign it's too loud or whatever, persoannly i go to a movie to be blown away.

The last really good movie i saw soudn wise in a theature was Episode I

They installed a brand new soudn system specificly for thsi movie and openign night they had the sucker cranked, ti was great the podrace almost made me cry, had directional base all over the damn place, directional base is nearly non existent these days.

the last loud movie i went to was the IMAX release of Apollo 13 at the Kenedy Space Center, during an astronaught dinner and movie invitation, troubl there was they were playign this soudntrack on a speaker system designed fo rdocumentarys and otherwise non taxign soundtracks, i think they may have overcooked their woofers, i could audibly hear them overload during the launch sequence

But yes now i love watching movies at home, i finaly kicked out the home theatur ein a box bundled pundy 50 watt 8" non ported sub *after blowing it up on the podrace* to a ncie solid 12" 120 sony subwoofer that shakes the house and dealigns my blue gun on my hd projection tv

still no where near a $10-15K system, but atleast it is acusticly matched to the rest of the system.

Ultimatly i want to upgrade to a system tha'll cost me $5k, which is mor ehten sufficnet for my moderete tastes, it's the Newton ti 500's 7.1 system from cambridge

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

loud is good

Not at the expense of reasonable dynamics. The "loudness" that most people are complaining about is the result of digital peak limiting or other forms of dynamic range compression. It actually sounds worse and more unnatural the louder you turn your amp up, because it robs the sound of its impact. In addition, because of the constant high RMS level, it is more likely to lead to hearing loss with prolonged exposure at high levels. You can make every film sound like this by selecting "midnight mode" or "max dynamic range compression" on your player or receiver, but there is no reason to build it into the software. If I want it loud, I'll turn the volume up.

Regards,

 

[Bjoern Roy]

greg,

note that the passage off my Blade 2 analysis that you quoted refers to 'Dialog Normalization Compensation'. Thats a different beast than 'Dialog Normaization'.

If there is any confusion what the difference is, i will try to clear up.

Best regards
Bjoern

 

[Keir H]

Yep, I thought so too..a bit loud! Theatrical and DVD. My poor son was getting fed and he nearly threw the bottle out when the scientist got shot in the head on the island in the Cuba scene...I snickered and turned it down..

 

[RobertR]

On laserdiscs, where the bitrate was substantially higher for DTS, the differences between DTS and DD were significant.

This contention is not supported by listening tests done by Warner engineers. They found no significant difference between full bit rate DTS (which has a HIGHER bit rate on DVD than on LD) and DD. As others have said, it's the mix, not the bit rate.