Harvey Weinstein allegations; who's next when it comes to allegations? (1 Viewer)

[Robert Crawford]

Well, my thread had nothing to do with allegations and what John Lasseter has done. It was about Pixar and it's future. But I suppose it's too soon to speculate.

Before I edited this thread's title, it wonder about the future of The Weinstein Company so it's similar situation as Pixar.

Harvey Weinstein allegations; What's next for TWC?

 

[Jake Lipson]

Yeah, when I posted this thread initially back in October, I was really more interested in discussing what the fallout for TWC would be, rather than the allegations themselves, precisely because I was not interested in politicizing the forum.

The name change is appropriate because in the ten pages and almost two months since that time, both the thread and Hollywood's new spotlight on harassment have expanded significantly beyond the boundaries of where I thought this thread might go when I started it.

Robert's revised name reflects that the thread itself has shifted away from my initial intention for it when I began it.

 

[jcroy]

Sam, I didn't read your thread before it was apparently merged into this one, but I don't think Pixar is going anywhere. Worst-case scenario would be Lasseter's sabbatical becoming permanent, which I hope does not happen.

My guess is if he's still "too toxic" after awhile, they'll just find somebody else to take over his duties. (ie. Early retirement). The question is whether Lasseter's administrative + creative/technical duties can be easily replaced by somebody else.

As in life, nobody wants to deal with anybody who is "radioactive". (Both figuratively and literally).


Lasseter's fate will most likely be dictated by the board of directors and any large shareholders of Disney. For example, if Lasseter is deemed irreplaceable and/or a replacement is difficult to find, then are Disney's shareholders and board of directors willing to "hold their noses" to keep him around ?

My suspicion is there's probably plenty of "pretenders to the throne" in the animation business, just itching to get Lasseter's old job. (Just like there's no shortage of actors).

 

[Jake Lipson]

More from Vanity Fair about the Pixar situation, including rumor that Pete Doctor may replace Laseter.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/11/disney-pixar-john-lasseter-leave-allegations

Speaking selfishly, it would be a great promotion for Doctor and one that would be well-deserved, but I kind of don't want him to do that job because it would prevent him from directing more movies. Cars 2 is the only thing Lasseter has directed since the merger and...yeah. It would be a shame to lose someone whose worldbuilding skills are as good as Doctor to being an executive figurehead and not a filmmaker.

 

[Johnny Angell]

The Lassater accusations sound somewhat less severe than Weinstien's, though no less inappropriate and strange. This one bothers me more as a fan, since Lassater made so many films that helped to define my childhood and, as a filmmaker, I respect him as much as anyone working in the industry. I'm extremely disappointed in his apparent lack of judgement. But also: what is so hard about "Keep your hands to yourself?"

Your last sentence is on point. What is so hard about respecting other people?

Part of me wants to say that this is becoming ridiculous. You can't hug women anymore?

Not if they don't want it. They said no and he kept going at it. That's not okay no matter who does it.

Exactly. During my entire employed life, I did not touch a female employee uninvited. Even then, it was to shake hands. For 99% of interaction with an employee of an opposite sex, hugging was not appropriate. When I did hug, it was initiated by the female and was chaste.

It ain't rocket science guys. Remind yourself that the lady is someone else's daughter or wife or mother or...

 

[Jake Lipson]

Lasseter is married with five children.

Be at work while you're at work. Then, go home and touch your wife.

This would also have applied to Harvey Weinstein, too, who was married through the course of his various inappropriate behaviors.

It's really not as hard as these men are making it.

 

[Ruz-El]

Lasseter seemed pretty harmless to me too. I've been around "huggers", and while annoying, they aren't "grabbers" Then I read this from the opening article in Variety:

"For more than 20 years, young women at Pixar Animation Studios have been warned about the behavior of John Lasseter, who just disclosed that he is taking a leave due to inappropriate conduct with women. The company’s co-founder is known as a hugger. Around Pixar’s Emeryville, Calif., offices, a hug from Lasseter is seen as a mark of approval.

But among female employees, there has long been widespread discomfort about Lasseter’s hugs and about the other ways he showers attention on young women. "

So yeah, it's not just being a hugger or a touchy-feely thing, it's creepy and he deserves what ever happens.

 

[Johnny Angell]

One of the articles mentioned that Pixar wasn’t welcoming to people of color.

 

[Johnny Angell]

This thing about Lassiter is bring back the feelings when the Cosby allegations came out. When that happened I felt like some of my youth was being stolen. Lassiter came later in my life, but I’ve got similar feelings.

I am not, however, comparing my feelings to those of the victims. They are worlds apart and the victims suffer more.

Maybe we should start a pool and sell squares to pick the next asshole male in position of power to abuse his power.

 

[Johnny Angell]

One more thing. Exposing this behavior and demonstrating there is a price to pay for behaving badly is one thing that can help solve this. Another is for parents to not let their boys grow up to be assholes.

 

[Malcolm R]

My concern is that many of these are exactly that, allegations. We have lives, careers, and companies (which affects the livelihood of many others) being destroyed based on simple statements to the press about events that may have occurred decades ago.

Obviously there are issues here, and the allegations need to be investigated and the perpetrators punished if there's evidence of wrongdoing. But it seems like we've reached a point where anyone can say anything about anybody else and punitive actions are immediately taken without any kind of pause for rebuttal or defense.

 

[TravisR]

My concern is that many of these are exactly that, allegations. We have lives, careers, and companies (which affects the livelihood of many others) being destroyed based on simple statements to the press about events that may have occurred decades ago.

You've got a perfectly legitimate concern. However, when I hear an isolated accusation, I'm not getting out a pitchfork and torch but when I start hearing about a string of accusations that ran over years and they all describe a similar M.O., I start to buy it. The accusations against Cosby, Weinstein, Spacey and even Lasseter all seem to have a running theme. It's either a very well orchestrated conspiracy or they've got a particular kink.

 

[Ruz-El]

You've got a perfectly legitimate concern. However, when I hear an isolated accusation, I'm not getting out a pitchfork and torch but when I start hearing about a string of accusations that ran over years and they all have a similar M.O., I start to buy it.

This is how I feel too. That photo of Al Frankin seemed more like a lame goof gone wrong (his writing a kiss into a sketch and insisting on rehearsing it is another thing altogether. People usually out grow that in highschool drama class...) than an actual assault. Then two or three other women came forward and yeah, I'm going to believe them.

 

[Johnny Angell]

This is not a he said/she said situation. There are too many women saying the same thing. Guys, you know it's true, many men have a low opinion of females and that makes their behavior ok in their minds.

Our society devalues women in more ways than just sexual. Paying a woman less than a man for equal work is a form of that.

 

[MatthewA]

It ain't rocket science guys. Remind yourself that the lady is someone else's daughter or wife or mother or...

The same applies to men: if they're not interested or not old enough, move on to one who is. That's why Kevin Spacey's behavior is equally indefensible, and made worse by the fact that only now and only because of this is he coming out of the closet. I'm glad other gay celebrities, albeit ones who only came out after gaining fame, called him out on it. I came out at 15 while he was making American Beauty and I toiled in obscurity for two decades while he kept closeted and won an Oscar and used it as carte blanche to make some extremely inconsistent films after that.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

It ain't rocket science guys. Remind yourself that the lady is someone else's daughter or wife or mother or...

Also a human being with inherent worth, regardless of what roles she may serve to any men in her life.

 

[SamT]

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/john-lasseter-pixar-disney-whisper-network-1202620960/

- Many described the culture at Pixar as toxic for women. “It’s sexist and misogynistic,” said a former employee.

- Another former employee told Variety that she was cautioned about Lasseter soon after she started work there, in the late 1990s.
“Just be warned, he likes to hug the pretty girls,” she said she was told. “He might try to kiss you on the mouth.”

- Another former employee said that after Pixar grew out of its Point Richmond office and moved to Emeryville in 2000, Lasseter’s behavior became more brazen. She said he would walk up to women in the office and kiss them on the lips.

- She said her manager kept her out of meetings where Lasseter would be present, telling her it would be best for her not to attend the intimate weekly reviews because “John has a hard time controlling himself around young pretty girls.”
Nevertheless, she would sometimes see Lasseter in the hallways, and felt uncomfortable when it appeared he was looking her up and down.
“It was almost comical how obvious he was about it,” she said.
She said that being excluded from meetings with Lasseter meant that she was not able to pitch or articulate her ideas or discuss her work with the director. She also felt left out of important conversations that went on in the review room. The experience made her feel undervalued and stifled in her career at the company, and she said it contributed to her decision to leave.

 

[Johnny Angell]

I’ll bet there’s a bunch of asshole male’s of power out there, just shitting bricks wondering when they’re going to be exposed.

 

[MatthewA]

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/john-lasseter-pixar-disney-whisper-network-1202620960/

- Many described the culture at Pixar as toxic for women. “It’s sexist and misogynistic,” said a former employee.

- Another former employee told Variety that she was cautioned about Lasseter soon after she started work there, in the late 1990s.
“Just be warned, he likes to hug the pretty girls,” she said she was told. “He might try to kiss you on the mouth.”

- Another former employee said that after Pixar grew out of its Point Richmond office and moved to Emeryville in 2000, Lasseter’s behavior became more brazen. She said he would walk up to women in the office and kiss them on the lips.

- She said her manager kept her out of meetings where Lasseter would be present, telling her it would be best for her not to attend the intimate weekly reviews because “John has a hard time controlling himself around young pretty girls.”
Nevertheless, she would sometimes see Lasseter in the hallways, and felt uncomfortable when it appeared he was looking her up and down.
“It was almost comical how obvious he was about it,” she said.
She said that being excluded from meetings with Lasseter meant that she was not able to pitch or articulate her ideas or discuss her work with the director. She also felt left out of important conversations that went on in the review room. The experience made her feel undervalued and stifled in her career at the company, and she said it contributed to her decision to leave.

That explains how Brenda Chapman got frozen out of Brave.

Disney has always been extremely concerned about the effects of their content on other people's behavior. That has been the motivation for redacting a lot of what they redacted from public view over the years. But how much it actually changes things is debatable; in 1952, Goofy made an anti-tobacco cartoon called No Smoking but it failed to even persuade Walt Disney to give it up! But what scares me is to think that people who act like this have this kind of control over the content of movies intended for the whole family, including but not limited to children.

But in all seriousness, how will Disney treat the Lasseter-directed Pixar films in the future? Will they still be available to view or will anyone care? Even Roman Polanski still has defenders (won't name names except I will mention that one of them has worked for Disney in a recent musical despite trashing Walt) and what he did was even worse than what Lasseter has done. It's not cognitive dissonance to say Chinatown and Rosemary's Baby are great films made by a man who did awful things. If nothing else, Toy Story 3 is going to make a weird rewatch, especially since some people suggested Lotso Huggin' Bear was basically based on John Lasseter.

But in terms of the actual workplace environment, it is not a matter of debate that when Walt was alive they did things they wouldn't do today. One of them is segregating men's and women's job. Recent critics have called Walt sexist for doing so but in light of this one wonders if maybe he was trying to prevent sexual harassment. They insisted they are better now but in some ways it's worse.

Maybe he should have taken a tip from Winnie the Pooh about not-okay touching! Or Miss Price telling Mr. Browne "now I trust you'll behave more like a gentleman" after the first time she turned him into a rabbit in Bedknobs and Broomsticks (at least Mr. Browne was worth saving). Or Mrs. Gogan in Pete's Dragon when she told her husband and sons about their leering at Nora: "If'n you think you want to hold her like my boys want to hold her, you best be holding your head." Funny how the so-called "dark" age of Disney also happened to coincide with the mainstreaming of feminism in popular culture. Perhaps practicing what they preach in their movies in their day-to-day life would be a step in the right direction after all for these little boys who play at being tough.

Some people just don't realize that it is uncomfortable to have other people going into your personal space when they are not your relatives and you are not dating or married to them, and even then certain boundaries still apply. Using a position of power, i.e. the ability to hire and fire people based on their willingness to tolerate this behavior, to justify doing this is wrong. I always wondered whether there was a dark side to the whole "extended childhood" business, and now that I see him using this "big kid" persona to hide behind being a lech, it's horrifying and sad. I always felt something in Disney's corporate culture changed after Frank Wells died, and not for the better. But was it always there and just never dealt with until now? And where will it end?

 

[Jake Lipson]

how will Disney treat the Lasseter-directed Pixar films in the future? Will they still be available to view or will anyone care?

I care. I think the general public will care. With respect to the women that he harassed, he can be a great filmmaker and a harasser at the same time. The original Toy Story in particular is etched into cinematic history. I don't think anything will change that. Certainly when they promote Toy Story 4 in 2019, it's impossible to do that in a vacuum, in that it is related to the ones that Lasseter directed, even though he is not directing this one anymore.

Poor A Bug's Life -- which has always sort of existed in the long shadow of the two Toy Story films which bookended it for Pixar and has never gotten the respect it deserves -- now has the double whammy of being directed by Lasseter and starring Kevin Spacey as the villain, Hopper. But you know what, it's still one of my favorite films ever and will remain so.

Harvey Weinstein was also responsible for producing or acquiring a bunch of great iconic films. I don't think anyone will stop watching those just because of his disgusting behavior. Chicago was just on TV the other day, and it's still the best picture of 2002 according to the Academy. Not to mention Tarintino's filmography up to this point has been 100% financed and distributed by Weinstein, and of course he remains an important filmmaker with a well-known and well-liked body of work.

The public may not wish to support these people in new projects, but I don't think the existing iconic movies which have already been endeared into people's hearts are going to suffer.

Also, remember, at this point Lasseter is only on sabbatical. I expect that he will return if Disney deems it possible, because he is extremely valuable to the company, and his behavior seems to be correctable (as opposed to Weinstein who is too far gone.)

Lasseter's name is on both Coco and its companion featurette, Olaf's Frozen Adventure, as an executive producer. The fact that these allegations came out on Tuesday just as Coco was starting its preview screenings does not seem to have hurt the box office at all, which is currently crackling towards a $70 million-plus opening weekend.