Good speakers (bookshelf or floorstander) for $500? (1 Viewer)

[ChrisAG]

At the risk of giving you information overload, here are a couple of interesting reviews on floorstanders in your price range (I'm partial to floorstanders for mains - they look good, and you don't have to fiddle with stands).
Mordaunt-Short MS-904, $699 list, $550 street (I think)
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PSB Image 4T $500 (I think!)
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[KeithH]

Chris, thanks for the suggestions. I don't know of a Mordaunt-Short or PSB dealer in my area, unfortunately. As for information overload, that happened very early in this thread.

Thanks again.
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[KeithH]

I made a decision.
A decision on speakers had to be made, and I was just the person to make it. Seriously though, I went to a local high-end store today and went with my first choice: Energy e:XL 25 floorstanders for $500 (brand new in a sealed box). That's a good price for these speakers, as the dealer I visited on Friday had them for $550. I went with the rosewood finish, which looks sweet. The only problem is that I couldn't fit them in my car because I was also picking up my Totem Arros (main system), which needed a new driver.
On a side note, I hooked up a subwoofer to my main stereo system tonight, and I am very pleased with the results. I blew a voice coil on one of the Arros listening to James Taylor's "Gaia" off of Hourglass. So, I had the driver replaced on the one speaker and picked them up tonight. At the same time, I bought an Energy Active Crossover box, which allows one to connect a subwoofer to a stereo integrated amp. As you can probably imagine, the crossover box allows you to dial in the crossover. I am loving the subwoofer for music.
Getting back to the Energy e:XL 25s, I compared them tonight to the e:XL 26s. On Friday, at a different dealer, I found the e:XL 25s to be much better than the e:XL 26s. Tonight, I found the e:XL 26s to be a bit better than the e:XL 25s, which is what I would have expected in the first place. I have no explanation for the inconsistency. In the end, the e:XL 26s would have taken me over budget by $175, and I decided to stay within my stated budget. The difference between the two speakers wasn't huge, and I like the small footprint of the e:XL 25s.
I can't wait to pick up the e:XL 25s tomorrow night and get them hooked up.
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[McPaul]

Congrats on the new speakers, Keith, enjoy!
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[KeithH]

Thanks, Paul. I just got the Energy e:XL 25s set up last night. They are great speakers for the price. Frankly, they are great speakers period. They also win style points, as I got the rosewood finish. I honestly didn't take the opportunity to listen to many of the speakers others here suggested, but I was so impressed with the e:XL 25s after hearing them in two stores, that I couldn't pass them up. I have them in a fairly large room, and they fill the room with sound (and good sound) very nicely. Me so happy.
On a side note, I asked the salesman I bought the e:XL 25s from about what speaker cable he would suggest I upgrade to for both the e:XL 25s and the Totem Arros (in the main system). I am currently using stock Monster wire. He recommended MIT Terminator 4 cables (8-foot) for the e:XL 25s at $300 a pair and MIT Terminator 3 cables (8-foot) for the Totems at $350 a pair (including banana plugs).

I will say that they are very nice, fat cables and will allow me to biwire both pairs of speakers. I noticed that the dealer uses them in all their demos. After speaker cables, there's interconnects....Next stop, dementia!

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[Edited last by KeithH on October 17, 2001 at 06:36 AM]
[Edited last by KeithH on October 17, 2001 at 09:14 AM]

 

[Andrew Pratt]

While I don't agree with your choice, it wasn't mine to make LOL. Enjoy your new ex:L's
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[KeithH]

Thanks, Andrew. Well, the point here is that I am now very happy with both of my systems. Just two months ago, I was using Energy e:XL 16s in both systems. I've made strides and am truly appreciating my music. While one may not expect this, the e:XL 25s are on a different plane than the e:XL 16s, even though they are part of the same line.
On a side note, and take it for what it's worth, the salesman I dealt with did not speak highly of the Maggie MMGs. Now admittedly, this dealer sells Maggies, but not the MMGs, as they are only available directly from the manufacturer. The salesman even went so far as to refer to the MMGs as a "poor man's Maggie", meaning that if one wants to get into planar speakers, one should buy Maggie's better offerings. Of course, the dealer sells the better Maggies. Anyway, the salesman went on to say what others have said about the Maggies in that I would need a much more powerful amp for the MMGs. He said that my NAD C 350 wouldn't do them, or any Maggies, justice. That's all opinion and possibly salesman-speak. I realize that. In any event, the e:XL 25s are a very good speaker and fit my budget. Once I hooked them up on my second system, I was thrilled by the choice I made. Of course, it's one thing to like a speaker in a store, but another to like them at home. As for the MMGs, I don't know what I am missing, if anything, so I'm O.K. I appreciate your suggestion, however, and learned a little more about planars speakers in the process. Thanks again.
By the way, do you have Maggies (MMGs or others) in a music system? I don't recall what you are using.
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[Brian Bunge]

Keith,
Before you go spending $300+ on speaker cables you might want to look at DH Labs Silver Sonic cables. They normally sell for about $4/foot (a bit more for bi-wires) with standard spade terminals. I just don't see spending 60% of the cost of your speakers for speaker cables. But what do I know! I build kit speakers!
Brian
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[KeithH]

Brian, you bring up a good point. Something that one has to be careful of, certainly, is not to eat up everything a salesman says or offers you to buy. This dealer sells MIT speaker cables and interconnects, and I have no doubt they are very good, but they could very well be more than I need, especially for my $500 Energy e:XL 25s. The Energys are in my second system, and I am not looking to put an exhorbitant amount of money into speaker cables or interconnects for it. I would entertain better (i.e., higher-priced) speaker cables and interconnects for my main system, however.
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[Saurav]

Well, the point here is that I am now very happy with both of my systems.

At the end of the day, that's all that matters. Congratulations on your purchase.
IMO, $790 speakers with $10 speaker wires would sound better than $500 speakers with $300 speaker wires. In other words, if you have $800 to spend, putting 500 into speakers and 300 into wires is a little lop-sided, and you seem to have a similar opinion.
As for what your salesman said about Maggies, I agree to a point - the MMGs are "poor man's Maggies", definitely. The other speakers higher up the line are much better. However, I completely disagree with him when he says that to try out Maggies you need one of the bigger speakers. Magnepan's sole reason for building the MMGs is to let people get a feel for planar sound without making the investment that the others require. Going by the testimonials on Audioreview and the fact that they hardly ever show up on the used market and get snapped up within hours when they do, I would guess that Magnepan's idea is working. It also seems logical that these speakers would be designed to work with the kind of amplification that its target audience is likely to have. Sure, they'll sound better with more power. Almost all planars do. For the bigger Maggies, your salesman's right, you need more power. However, it's possible that he's extrapolating his experience with those speakers to the MMG (which is sold only factory direct).
Finally, and no disrespect intended, but if I were talking to a salesman who recommended $300 speaker cable for $500 speakers...

 

[Andrew Pratt]

Keith IMO your dealer wasn't telling you the truth regarding the MMG's. I started out with a pair of MMG's as my main speakers in my HT driving them with a Denon 3300. I can honeslty say that your NAD amp will have more balls then the 3300 but the 3300 had no problems playing the MMG's to levels that were too loud for my liking. Now thats not to say that better power wasn't needed to make them sound even better but that can be said for almost any speaker made. After getting those first MMG's I've now moved on to taller maggies and moved those to other speakers in my HT. He's definatly right in that the bigger maggies sound better then the smaller ones BUT on a cost basis $550 for MMG's sound 85% as good as the $1500 1.6's so dollar for dollar the MMG"s are a real bargin. One point that seems to be brought up all the time regarding maggies is that they are hard to drive...IMO that usually comes from some one that 1) has never owned maggies and 2) comes from a cone speaker world. The way most cone speakers work is that their ohm rating fluctuates wildly depending on the frequency its playing. On a typical 8 ohm rated spaker this flucuation may drip down well below 4 ohms. Maggies on the other hand remain steadfast at 4 ohms no matter what freq. they are being asked to play. This makes them actually a fairly easy load to play providing your amp can handle the constant 4 ohm load. Most average receivers can do this pretty well but they start running out of current before the maggies hit the real sweet spot. For this reason a high current amp will make them sing a little better, ie more controled bass response etc. Again though high current amps temd to make all speakers sound better its not limited to planer's.
Magnepan introduced the MMG speaker along with its 60 day introductory offer for people just like you. People that are curious about hearing music in a different way, people that are willing to break from tradition a little. Their thinking is that once you've heard the maggie sound most people tend to become lifers and will end up buying more maggies. This is where their trade up policy comes into play. This is also why I am disappointed in your dealer. He should know better then to talk you out of MMGs even if it means losing a sale for now..in all likely hood you'd be back in the future to buy some of the higher end models...we all do
Anyway I like the Energy line too just IMO I've never found the ex:L's to be a very musical speaker and certinaly not in the same league as the MMG for music (for HT speakers the ex:L's are great though)
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[Andrew Pratt]

test reply
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[McPaul]

I hope I'm not the bringer of bad news, Keith, but you may want to check your price on those Energy's. I just peeked over to www.audioreview.com and there's some guy here in Canada that bought them for $400 Canadian at A&B Sound. You might want to check www.audioshop.on.ca and email Marc to see what their 'discounted' price is, which as I recall on Energies were quite good. Or, you might want to contact Bruce Abar here on this forum which has a friend at above mentioned store that can ship these puppies. Just some thoughts.
As far as cabling goes, what are you using right now? I use standard Radio Shack stuff, and find that works best for me. If you really do want to upgrade, check the Bettercables link at the top of your screen. Everyone on this forum raves about them. Or Kimber Kable is good too...
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[KeithH]

This thread is messed. The board shows 72 posts, but there are only 69 showing.

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[KeithH]

After entering my post about this thread being "messed", I was able to see posts 70-72. Strange. Anyway...
Andrew,
I respect your views on the MMGs. It's too bad Magnepan doesn't sell the MMGs through its dealer network. While it's true that one has to test speakers in one's own system, I like to listen to a speaker at a store before taking it home. I have a Maggie dealer 20 minutes from me. I don't know why Maggie won't allow dealers to at least have a demo pair of MMGs for customers to listen to. Maggie could have the dealers stock them or have customers place orders through the dealers. Is that asking too much? Anyway, given that planars are completely different than cone speakers (which could be good or bad depending on the individual) and that they are not available in stores, I decided to go a different way.
As for the salesman's views on the MMGs, I realize that they could have been skewed by the fact that the dealer can't sell them to me. I can't even say for sure whether the salesman has ever heard the MMGs. Anyway, I did not base my decision on the MMGs because of what the salesman said. I just was sharing a conflicting opinion, which in part, was in keeping with what I have read before (e.g., the part about needing a powerful amp).
Glad to hear the MMGs work for you. As for the e:XL series, I realize that they are often regarded as a home theater-first speaker, but I like the sound of the e:XL 25s for music. I've heard far worse (KEF, for example). As I said, the e:XL 25s gave the sound I was looking for within my budget.
Paul,
Energy speakers seem to be a bit more costly in the US than Canada, which isn't too surprising. As I said, I bought the e:XL 25s for $500 USD from a dealer in Delaware, while another dealer I visited outside of Philadelphia was charging $550 USD. As for Audioshop, they don't ship Energy speakers to the US any longer. It seems as though Energy caught wind of the discount prices Audioshop was charging US customers for its products and didn't react too kindly. So, Audioshop had to stop taking orders from the US. I know Audioshop has great prices, however, as I ordered the e:XL 16s that the e:XL 25s replaced from them when they still shipped Energy products to the US.
Thanks for the Better Cables suggestion. I have heard very good things about their cables. As for Kimber Kable, I have been considering the 4TC speaker wire for my Totem Arros. Audio Advisor sells an 8-foot pair for $168. Of course, I'll pay more should I decide to bi-wire.
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[Andrew Pratt]

Keith sorry if my post sounded negative at all I really wasn't trying to down play your speaker choice I just get a little miffed at the mis information thats often spread surrounding the maggie speakers.
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[Allan McLachlan]

KeithH, have you auditioned the Energy e:xL 25 and the Veritas 2.1, I'm more interested in the Veritas but I have heard the 25's - what's your take...? I need to upgrade my two channel audio

 

[KeithH]

Andrew,
No problem at all. There are many misconceptions and biases in audio, and dealers with a vested interest in certain products don't help. If I weren't more aware, my two systems would look as though I raided my local high-end dealer. Potential customers could simply come to my house for demos if I were closer to them than the store. I'm trying to avoid that.
Allan,
First a dumb question. Are the Energy Veritas 2.1s bookshelf speakers or floorstanders? The dealer I bought the e:XL 25s from also sells the Veritas line. I bought Totem Arro floorstanders from this same dealer two months ago for my main system. Back then, I first listened to Veritas bookshelf speakers (2.1s?), and thought they were good, but not great. I found them to be too warm to the point that the sound was not focused (imaging, soundstaging, etc.). I next listened to a comparably priced pair of Totem bookshelf speakers (approximately $1000 USD a pair), which were very similar. I went with the Arros, as they were considerably better than the two bookshelf speakers.
As a result of my negative experience with the Veritas bookshelf speakers a couple months ago, I did not A/B them with the e:XL 25s the other day. Also, the Veritas bookshelf speakers are much more expensive than the e:XL 25s and were out of my prescribed budget. The e:XL 25s are a good little speaker, but you may very well prefer the Veritas 2.1s.
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[Edited last by KeithH on October 18, 2001 at 08:01 AM]