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Going to try PS4 Virtual Reality: Please Help

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Ronald Epstein, Nov 23, 2017.

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  1. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    For a few VR games that are more of a viewing than interacting experience (like Statik, which is an EXCELLENT puzzle game with a free demo, or Thumper, which is an EXCELLENT rhythm game with a free demo), I prefer to just sit on my couch. For games like Batman or Job Simulator, that require more arm movement, I will sometimes turn my camera to point to the side of the room and use a folding chair to sit. For games that really require standing up (the only one I can think of is Farpoint), I just stand in place in front of my couch.

    Honestly, the only things you need to worry about are the camera height/angle relative to where you and your VR headset/controllers will be and how much movement space you have (not so much for walking, since the PSVR only has a roughly 4 or 5 foot square "box" of area that it can recognize, but more so for not hitting stuff). The Camera doesn't need to be centered to your TV or anything, it just needs to be centered to where you (with the VR headset) will be standing. I think some games recommend waist-level or head-level camera placement, but in all honesty it doesn't matter so long as it can see the blue lights on the headset.

    I would recommend maybe not putting the camera on a speaker. The vibrations from the sound might give you some slight tracking issues.

    Regarding free movement in Doom VFR, I would recommend checking out Farpoint for it's free movement system. You can literally just go anywhere in the game world without using the "warp" mechanic a lot of other games have (though I mean "go anywhere by pushing the joystick," not by physically walking, though you can do that to whatever extent the camera will track you).
     
  2. 142 Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
    CraigF

    CraigF Cinematographer

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    They don't vibrate the way you're thinking, they're panels, reasonably XOed to the subs. But yes, that is (otherwise) a fair point.

    The camera, so far, has worked best up there on the speaker (5'9" high). The camera stand/gizmo fits perfectly and securely in place, and it's the shortest distance to the Pro. The speaker is aimed at the main sitting position (mine!), in the way front speakers are, roughly, so that helps too. I tried a whole bunch of other locations, including high and low in front of the display, and meh, the high slightly off-center location tracked better, plus I could stand or sit and it was still good.

    Before I got the PSVR, I waffled on it numerous times because I don't like wearing "helmets". I thought it would be too much like that, make my head too hot = a quick headache. Not at all for me. In fact, I guess my head is so "average" that I can't even really feel the headset is on, it fits snugly but lightly, don't know how much better I could expect from any helmet-like thing. [I did the 3D measure the distance between your eyes procedure, and it came out to the same as the default setting.] I didn't see any light leakage at the bottom either (something some people complained about in some reviews). I did some things with room lights on, and others with regular viewing lighting (fairly dark), and I couldn't tell which state the room was in.

    I did run into one anomaly though. I was in some demo and all of a sudden I started seeing massive aliasing, like with straight lines on a DVD that's really poorly upscaled (or any DVD way back, sometimes...). There was a general appearance of the resolution had dropped too, but it wasn't so bad that I had to quit. Bear in mind this is a completely new PS4 setup, the Pro is new and though I tried to set it up the same as my plain PS4, I may have forgotten the odd thing and it has newer firmware plus the current PSVR firmware. When I took the headset off, the display was only covering about 80% of the plasma screen, not quite like a 4:3 program, but that sort of idea.

    Now I had been doing sort of what Ron asked about at the beginning. I did not have the plasma on at first, and was using an auxiliary small LCD display that's off to the side, close-ish to my sitting position. It's 19" and 720p, though accepts 1080p input...it's several years old...big enough that I can read it (menus and music disc stuff), but not so big as to be really intrusive. I am wondering if somehow switching to which display is on screwed up the PSVR processing box, you know, the HDMI comms. Anyway, I had to go into the PS4 video setup and re-state that I wanted 1080p/60 and that fixed it. Pretty sure I had selected 1080p/24 before, that's the only video setting I remember looking at, might have been a completely different PS4 video menu, I'm just not familiar enough with the PSVR-specific stuff yet.

    Anyway, so far so good. I haven't got "physiologically" disoriented yet, but I sure do get spatially disoriented. You really have to make sure there's nothing breakable or spillable (!) in the area if walking around. The chair I was sitting in can rotate/recline, so it's easy in a 3D/360 demo to kind of forget how many times you've gone round looking at all the stuff around/above you...luckily the headset cord is very long. I thought it was quite cool in one demo to look down at "myself" in the VR, to see what I was wearing and holding etc., that part worked better than expected, I've seen it not be very good before. I did all this with my glasses on. Various on-screen instructions said I should keep them on, so I did, and no problem at all.

    Edit: I just wanted to add that IMO some of the regular/non-PSVR-specific settings can possibly be misleading. I think I may have fallen into that trap. The regular PS camera ones fall into that category I think, I followed that one time and it was terrible, it was actually much better when I just "randomly" set up the camera than it was following that "calibration". Here. Also possibly the video settings. The PSVR has its own settings section which everybody who has one knows about, and I may have been "cross-adjusting" things between regular PS4 use and PSVR use...won't happen again.
     
  3. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
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  4. Aaron Silverman

    Aaron Silverman Executive Producer

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    The helmet is so comfortable, I don't even find myself thinking about how comfortable it is. :)

    When I played the Starblood Arena demo, I almost jumped out of my seat when I glanced down and noticed how much cleavage I'd suddenly sprouted! :D
     
  5. 145 Dec 6, 2017
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    CraigF

    CraigF Cinematographer

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    ^ In one demo I had a helmet on, that was just doubly "confusing", like when I tried to touch the headset. Have to get your mind in the right frame, just like for any game.

    What do you guys think of third-person VR games? (Bear in mind I've only "played" demos, besides Skyrim and Worlds all the other games people mentioned are still on order.) Does it even make sense? Isn't it just a 3D "regular" game? Some of the upcoming third-person VR ones (not shooters) I demoed do look kind of decent though, the subject matter and game type I wouldn't have looked twice at normally, but playing them a bit with the PSVR and I can see them being kind of OK... I thought almost by definition a VR game had to be first-person...apparently not.
     
  6. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    I only played the Robot Rescue game in Playroom VR, in regards to third-person VR games. I think it was pretty cool and definitely added to the experience by letting the POV from VR allow you to look around and see more stuff, like hidden items or platforms, but it also made me a bit nauseous when the camera would start moving. Other than that, I know Moss and Bound are both third-person VR games, though Moss is more about you interacting with a character rather than controlling him.

    Personally, I like the idea of developers experimenting with different implementations of VR. Even if it really just comes down to replacing the camera with VR support, I think its good.
     
  7. Dave Scarpa

    Dave Scarpa Producer

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    is it worth picking a vr up if all i own is a PS4 slim? And if I did Should I get the Version 1 or 2,
     
  8. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
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    Dave,

    From what I understand a non-pro PS4 may take a slight performance hit in graphic detail but it's supposed to be nominal.

    I would say get the v2 of the headset, but unfortunately, it doesn't come bundled with any great games. I think the only two bundles that have the v2 headset is the SKYRIM and DOOM games.
     
  9. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
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  10. 150 Dec 7, 2017 at 11:27 AM
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 12:44 PM
    CraigF

    CraigF Cinematographer

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    Yes, it's all interesting and fun.

    But I was coming more from the point is slapping the VR label on some things mostly a marketing thing? [e.g. see "organic foods"] After all, 3D, which is "all" some of this stuff really is, is apparently a bad word at companies who don't sell 3D displays. Just because you can play something using the PSVR, or more likely being required to use the PSVR, doesn't make it actually virtual reality. There's no reason the PS4 couldn't have some of those same games play in 3D on a 3D-capable display, there'd be no real diff when it's third-person. Based on what I could tell from the demos.

    Being required to use the PSVR does force a certain closeness and intimacy to the proceedings though, and does allow the game developer a much tighter control of how the user experiences, so there's that advantage.

    So I guess all I'm saying is just because a game has the PSVR label on it doesn't mean that it'll be much of a VR experience. It might be a good experience, and a good game. But VR, not so much.

    [Vaguely related to this, I've been waffling over whether I should quit playing my regular PS3 Skyrim and change over to the VR version that came in the PSVR bundle. Checking out the diffs, and there are quite a few from the PS3/PS4-remaster versions, one of the things Skyrim VR doesn't do is ever switch into 3rd-person view mode. Something the regular game does for quite a few things (or I guess you could stay in 3rd-person all the time if you wanted). Presumably to keep the VR aspect. There have also apparently been quite a few patches lately, and supposedly will be more, that enhance the VR playing aspect. I'm tempted...]
     
  11. Jeff Cooper

    Jeff Cooper Screenwriter

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    The 3rd person games I have played in VR, Robot Rescue and the Moss demo have been fantastic. I don't agree at all that this type of experince in VR is similar to just making the game 3D. No game I've ever played in 3D has come anywhere near the level of immersion that VR provides. It's hard to put into words, but say you're watching a 3D movie. You see pop-out and depth, but it's all there in front of you. You don't inhabit that space. You're not 'in' the movie. VR is completely different. You are there. You are in that space, and it's completely immersive on a level 3D can't even begin to touch.

    When watching a 3d movie, it's still limited to a 2D plane. If something is blocking your view of something behind it, you can't lean over to peek behind the front object so see behind it. In VR you can. It's like nothing 3D can provide.
     
  12. 152 Dec 7, 2017 at 1:03 PM
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    CraigF

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    ^ I've never played a game in 3D, so you're probably right about that. But yes, those 3rd-person PSVR demos do immerse you more, I did say that, strictly by the controlled nature of how you're viewing.

    But it seems to me that actual VR requires me to be completely in the picture. Otherwise it's just me manipulating and watching something/somebody else do stuff. I'm being very strict, I know...

    And I would bet that if a certain company sold 3D displays, you could play some of these new games in 3D. I am sensing a certain conflation of 3D and VR by marketing (like the attempted and not totally unsuccessful conflation of LED and OLED displays by another manufacturer).

    I did play the Moss demo, not sure about the other one, but if it came with the PSVR or could be DLed for free, I did play it. I'm all about "the free" when I'm new to something... That Star Child demo is another one that looks like it could be interesting, and it's a 3rd-person platformer of all things (a first-person VR platformer would be a real mess...and painful). IMO not very "VR", but interesting nontheless and I kind of liked it.
     
  13. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    I've played a bunch of games in 3D, and it's cool. But it's kind of like looking in a window.

    It's the difference between watching football on a TV and watching it in the stadium. You are watching the same game play out, but the experience of BEING THERE is different.

    I would say that a good example of this difference between 3D and VR immersion would be something like Rez or Thumper, where there's a big difference between the (already amazing) 2D experience and the VERY IMMERSIVE VR experience.

    EDIT: Also, Robot Rescue is one of the included minigames in the Playroom VR, which is a free download. The Playroom was a free download when the PS4 first came out, and Playroom VR is the VR follow-up.
     
  14. Dave Scarpa

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    i', going to search out some deals
     
  15. Lou Sytsma

    Lou Sytsma Producer

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    The Skyrim bundle is the best deal IMHO.
     
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  16. 156 Dec 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM
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    CraigF

    CraigF Cinematographer

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    I did play it then, I didn't really pay attention to the game names.

    At the main menu, if you're looking straight forward when you start the Playroom VR, I couldn't select the item really high up on the "far" right. It was fine the previous time I tried it, and I didn't move the camera, and if anything, since my camera is somewhat biased towards the right side of the room, you'd think it would have been easier to track me. Some fine-tuning required re camera placement here...

    I get the impression it's not uncommon to adjust the camera position/height depending on the game. Some want you to place the camera at waist height, some high, some low. I see it's quite common for the more heavily involved to use a tripod or mike stand. I could do that, but would prefer not to, more mess, it's pretty convenient the way the PSVR system is. I really don't have much I could place the camera on besides where it is, without a camera cable extension, or without moving the PS4 (not really feasible).

    Height adjustment almost certainly wouldn't solve the issue I mentioned above, pretty sure it's an angle/FOV thing, there could be something in the way/blocking that isn't super-obvious to me, will investigate further on the weekend.
     
  17. Tino

    Tino Executive Producer
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    I say stick with the PS3 version of Skyrim. Finish the game and then go to the VR version. I think it will be more enjoyable that way.
     
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  18. 158 Dec 8, 2017 at 10:37 AM
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    CraigF

    CraigF Cinematographer

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    ^ That's what I'm doing. I can't imagine doing all that stuff over again. I'm playing exactly how I like, the game is that flexible, so it's not like I want to do anything differently (in another playthrough), or else I'd be doing it right now. OTOH, I could do things in a completely different order, and at a higher level of difficulty. I think Skyrim VR is something I'll probably look at in 1-2 years, depending how long the other VR games last.

    I was looking at a forum where the gamers speak in intelligible language and are decently polite/considerate of other users. You know that isn't typical of gaming forums. Perhaps some of the people there are older, they seem like it. The Fogey Forum. Anyway, numerous of them complain about getting nauseous or dizzy and it lasting for days and even weeks after playing Skyrim VR. These affected people say you need to work your way in slowly, a bit at a time until you become accustomed to the "motions". This is an anomaly, right? These people are probably easily affected by IDK roller coasters, ships/choppy seas, aircraft turbulence and car sickness etc.?

    [I probably should have started on the (plain) Skyrim PS4 version as people here suggested, instead of the PS3 one I already had, especially considering at the time I was using a 4K OLED display i.e 1080p upscaled to 4K probably looks a lot better than 720p upscaled to 4K. (I can say for sure though that Skyrim in 720p upscaled to 4K doesn't look much better than 720p upscaled to 1080p. Got all that...?)]
     
  19. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    I've gotten a little nauseous and dizzy from VR, but over time you get used to the VR feeling and it minimizes a lot. That said, the most it's lasted for me was like an hour or two after playing a game, and usually eating/drinking something helped me ease back. I've never seen someone complain about problems for days.
     
  20. CraigF

    CraigF Cinematographer

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    ^ Another thing I picked up on was to "not fight through it". They said you should stop as soon as symptoms begin. Don't try to get used to it, come back the next day. Agree? I haven't been affected yet, but good to know how to handle it in advance JIC.

    Might be "older people problems". I guess I am one of those...but I don't get any type of motion sickness. In the real world.
     

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