Going crazy-Panasonic sa xr45 or HK avr330?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Ronald-W, Feb 19, 2004.

  1. Ronald-W

    Ronald-W Auditioning

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    Hi everyone, i am new here and i am about to get a new receiver for my HT. It has come down to those two, i can get the panny for $315 and the HK 330 for $475 i am quite sure. It will be use mostly for Movies, TV, Music probably in that order. the room is about 15X20 with a 8 foot ceiling. Any help would really help. Thanks.
     
  2. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Producer

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    Can you audition both at home with your other gear?
     
  3. Ronald-W

    Ronald-W Auditioning

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    not likely[​IMG]
     
  4. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Ronald,

    Even though I'm a big H/K fan, I'd really lean towards the Panasonic in this situation. The Panasonic will run so much cooler, fit into more areas and, from what I hear, sound wonderful.

    The down-sides of the Panasonic are: Subwoofer crossover fixed @ 100 Hz. Kind of hard to read the display - because it is so blasted small. However, once you have the Panasonic set up, you could just purchase a nice remote and program all of the features that you want to use - and rely less on the factory remote and lousy display - while you enjoy the wonderful sound.
     
  5. Chris Purvis

    Chris Purvis Stunt Coordinator

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    The other downside to that panasonic - if you have anything plugged into it which is NOT a digital input, it has to do an analog->digital conversion before it amplifies the signal and that is bad - always bad. Even the most expensive digital processors (I'm talking about > $10,000 digital video scalers) that have to do an analog->digital conversion introduce noise and lose fidelity when doing this.

    If you are only going to use that Panasonic with digital souces, it IS supposed to be wonderful - a friend here has one coming and soon and we are going to see if it's really as good as the hype next week vs. my analog separates when used with a digital-only source. If you want it to amplify a tape deck, or audio from a VCR, or a CD player which only has analog outputs, then you might want to reconsider the H/K. I have a 320 I use as a pre/pro but it's amp section isn't half bad - I could live with it if I had to.
     
  6. David*RT

    David*RT Stunt Coordinator

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    Take the Panny.

    B/c of the extreme hype of the Panny, you may have a substantially difficult time obtaining one. It may be easier to go to audiogon.com and find one used--I've seen some there.

    Basically, everything people have said on this thread is a good summary of the unit.

    It has a high crossover for the sub (which sucks) and you need to use only a digital connection (which sucks), otherwise the sound will be crap coming from analog. It's only the digital portion of the unit that is supposed to sound great.

    A benefit is that it has power to drive huge speakers and is so efficient (runs "cool") that it won't really affect your electricity bill compared to solid state electronics.

    The Panny won't kill $1000+ receivers--this has already been discussed to death. But it is being regarded as the best under $1000 reciever to date.....and at ~$300, it's a relative steal.

    People are even going the extra mile to have the Panny modded. The hype of doing that is that it can take it to the "audiophile" level. This is still to be seen. Modding discussions are taking place on a daily basis audiocircle.com and audioasylum.com.
     
  7. Mike Stoll

    Mike Stoll Auditioning

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    Chris,

    I have a H/K 325 and the only way to not have an analog signal go through an analog-to-digital conversion is to use the 6/8 channel inputs. I confirmed this with H/K tech support shortly after I received the unit. I would imagine the same is true on the 330. I think that the 430 is actually the replacement for the 325 though. According to tech support H/K does this to allow bass management through the analog inputs.

    Ronald,

    Panny is releasing new units shortly. They were already up on JandR's webpage last time I checked. SA-XR50 and 70 I believe.
     
  8. AndrewErickson

    AndrewErickson Stunt Coordinator

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    I've also read that there is no Analog -> Digital conversion if you set the receiver to stereo, fronts to large and no sub. Is this not also correct?
     
  9. Mike Stoll

    Mike Stoll Auditioning

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    I just dug up the email from H/K. My question was originally about the 320, which H/K upgraded to the 325 due to problems with the surround back channels. It is my understanding that the 325 and likely the 330, 430, etc. operate in the same fashion.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Here is my question:
    Question concerning AVR 320
    First Question: When connecting a CD player through the analog inputs onthe receiver is the analog signal directly amplified and sent to thespeakers or is the analog signal converted back to digital through ADC's,
    then sent through the receivers circuits and subsequently converted backto analog with the receivers DAC's. If the later case is true would it be
    better (in terms of sound quality) to just send the receiver a digitalsignal from the CD player?

    Reply:
    Hi Michael,

    The AVR320 does not maintain a pure analog signal when you have an analog connection. The tone controls and bass management are done in the digital
    domain so all analog signals are converted to digital before being processedand then converted to analog for output to the speakers. This does not mean
    that a digital input will always be better, because the AD conversion isvery precise and can still capture the benefits of a good analog signal. It would not hurt to experiment with this to see if you have a preference with
    which connection is best for you.

    I hope this helps.

    Sincerely,

    Harold Kevelos
    Internet Support Specialist

    -----------------------------------------------------
    This was his reply to a second email concerning the 6/8 channel inputs:

    I am sorry about the delay with e-mail responses. Yes, the 6/8 channeldirect inputs maintain an analog signal straight through to the amplifier.
    Thank you!
     
  10. AndrewErickson

    AndrewErickson Stunt Coordinator

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    From page 20 of the owner's manual...

    "NOTE: When the front speakers are set to the
    LARGE option and the surround mode is set to
    "Surround Off", or pure two-channel stereo, when an
    analog signal source is present it will be routed directly
    from the input to the volume control without being digitized
    or processed. If you have full-range front speakers
    and wish to remove all digital processing from the circuit
    path, select this configuration. If you wish to set this
    option for use with only one input, such as a CD player
    that uses an external DAC or an optional, external
    phono preamp, you may also wish to choose the
    INDEPENDENT setting on the BASS
    MGR line at the bottom of this menu so that only
    those inputs where the analog bypass is desired will
    be routed in this fashion, while other analog inputs such
    as a VCR or cable box will be digitized for surround
    processing."


    So, I'm wondering if this is wrong?
     
  11. Mike Stoll

    Mike Stoll Auditioning

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    Andrew,

    I think you are correct. I should have checked the manual for the 325 before posting instead of assuming the situation with analog inputs were the same. As you can see from my question to HK I was referring to the 320. I did not think that the situation changed with the 325. I pulled up the manuals for the 320, 325, and 330 from the HK website. Page 22 of the 325 manual reads exactly what you have quoted. The manual for the 330 has a similar explanation, but nothing like this is mentioned in the manual for the 320 as far as I can see.

    What is interesting about this is that I spoke with an HK tech support person on the phone the other day. I thought there was a problem with my receiver (325), possibly with the DAC's (check a recent post I had in this forum). I mentioned to the tech that I ruled out the DAC's since when using the analog CD inputs the signal was digitized and then converted back to analog later. In my case the problem was not present when the speakers were set to large. He agreed with me that the signal was digitized. I am assuming he is misinformed and the manual is correct.
     
  12. Ronald-W

    Ronald-W Auditioning

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    Thanks for your quick replays, if i go with the panny what would be a good receiver to go with it for SACD and DVD-A and good analog sound, and would i need a recveiver for that, my JVC SA75GD DVD player can do DVD-A.
     
  13. john seitz

    john seitz Stunt Coordinator

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    I see this is an older thread - but I'm having the same question...

    SA-XR50 or AVR330...

    just picked up one of each - I was able to get CC to match the price on the HK AVR330 of J&R plus 10% of the differance (w/tax 490). With that great deal I headed home with a smile... then I saw a smaller chain and figured I would stop -- saw a Panasonic XR50 for $299 and picked it up as it will save some dough which is always a good thing.


    But

    I want to make sure it will be able to power my front two large speakers AS-F2's and AS-C1 center. my rear surround speakers are a little Mirage AVS-200's -- no room for a sub at the moment (I own a Mirage FRXs-8 but can't find a place for it unless i place it near the couch???)

    So do you think the little digital Panny can power them F2's with enough opphhh :) or should I return it and keep the AVR330.... The Panny has a 15% restocking fee if opened :-(



    Thanks again in advance,

    John
     
  14. Nicholas R

    Nicholas R Stunt Coordinator

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    Yes it will and with power to spare. Many of the "top rated" receivers will drop to 40 or 50 watts when running all channels. The Panasonic drops to about 95. I take issue with an above statement that it is better than under $1000 receivers. It's better than most receivers far more expensive than that. I've even added one to my big stereo only rig and my Bryston/CJ is in the closet. Yes they are that good.
     
  15. john seitz

    john seitz Stunt Coordinator

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    Thank you Nicholas on that info... I guess I'm too old school for a 31 year old [​IMG]

    Plus the great deal on HK a tad under 500 out the door with tax and from a authrized dealer to boot.

    put an extra $200 back to old credit card does help with the wife [​IMG]


    Also I found that the 50 is not the replacement to the 45 rather the 25 (from my own readings the 45 had a better powersupply then the 25) does that = the same for the 50 using a "lower grade" powersupply?



    I guess in a time when a Hyundai can be just as good if not BETTER then a VW - why can't Panny be better then a HK :)
     
  16. Nicholas R

    Nicholas R Stunt Coordinator

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    Your reading was wrong. The 30 replaces the 25, the 50 replaces the 45.
     
  17. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Well, judging from some of the reliability reports I've seen on the VW, it appears the Hyundai might hold up a bit better, but that's another discussion because, personally, I wouldn't own a Hyundai.

    John, it appears up to this point, you've been going on:

    1) What you've read on the message boards, and

    2) The specs you've seen for each receiver.

    However, the most important part is how the receiver will sound to you in the area you intend to use it in. Don't just assume that the H/K is a better-made or better-sounding receiver, because once it's all connected, you might be surprised.

    Based on my experience, I've gone from a H/K AVR-7200 to a Yamaha HTR-5760. The AVR-7200 cost me $999 and the HTR-5760 cost me $399. For me, I'm totally blown away with what the Yamaha provides in the area of features and sound when compared to the H/K. Again, though, that is just my impressions of using the gear in my setup. Your results may greatly vary also.
     
  18. john seitz

    john seitz Stunt Coordinator

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    thanks again all -- one last question (well you know) with the Panny's all digital design how bad is it to git it an analog signel? My TIVO output is not digital :-( will it add more HISS?
     
  19. Nicholas R

    Nicholas R Stunt Coordinator

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    Hehehe no it won't add hiss. The analogue inputs are fast, detailed and warm.
     
  20. john seitz

    john seitz Stunt Coordinator

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    Well the XR50 does have enough ummm well it has the power to light-up the AS-F2's [​IMG]


    It really is a good unit with out a doubt -- but on non digital feeds it does sound a little "hollow" not sure if it is just the fact that I'm so wowed by the DVD playback or what not? It also feels "cheap" due to its weight or a complete lack of - the knobs and button do feel top notch - would like it to have had OSD like the 45 though and a video up-conversion which I didn't really think about much till I released it would make the system more-wife proff :)


    Side note -- I have never seen those 8" woofers in my speakers move soooo much and with no poor sound quility! Top notch!




    Not sure since I already opened it I might as well try the HK what do I have to loose (I guess $200+) LOL


    thanks again!

    John
     

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