Going crazy-Panasonic sa xr45 or HK avr330?

DonJ

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Mar 5, 2002
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I'm not a John Kerry all I was saying is that HK are noted for being one of the best no fill receiver manufacturers because of there amps. HK have been a world leader in build amps for along time and up untill I read this thread I have never heard of Panosoinc being noted for makeing anything spectacular in the audio world. So yes it sounds fishy.

Are there any published reviews are comparison that I can read?
 

Wayne Ernst

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Actually, there is. I just can't find the link at the moment. It was in one of the Home Theater forums and titled to the effect of: "Krell Killer."

I'll post the link if I can find it.
 

DonJ

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Maybe to your ears but I'm still sceptical at best.

After reading the specs I'm even more sceptical. The whole unit weights 9.2lbs...how can these little amps make 100w/channel.
 

DonJ

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just read the Newform and I don't belive it at all. I will have to hear it for my self. there is just to much in the article that doesn't make sense. Are any major publications that are doing reviews? I'm going to Circuit City tomorrow to listen for my self.
 

john seitz

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I don't think CC sells them anymore (they do have the HK DPR1001 - but that doesn't score as well either). I bought my at a higher-end mom and pop chain in my area.

good luck!
 

Wayne Ernst

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Don,

This information was posted earlier by you, then removed. Was it your test results, or the results of another tester?

Another quality response.
 

David Judah

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Well considering they run at 90%+ efficiency(typical analog amps run at around 40%), digital amps don't require alot of real estate in the case or large heatsinks to dissapate heat.

They use Texas Instrument's "PurePath" solution based on their "Equibit" technology which consists of a PWM(Pulse Width Modulation)processor, a power stage chip, and MOSFET H-bridges. All signals are converted to PWM, amplified, and then run through a low-pass filter before output to the speakers. The amp itself is the DAC. The idea is to keep the signal in the digital domain up to the very end, so the signal is less apt to be corrupted, which is more likely in the analog domain.

Here is the link to info. of a common PWM processor used by Panasonic in these receivers(TAS5076).

Here is the info. on the power stage controller(TAS5182).

DJ
 

DonJ

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Mar 5, 2002
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john seitz,

Yep they don't have carry them anymore so I contacted someone who has the XR25 that's local to me for a comparo.

You mention that the HK DPR1001 doesn't sorce as well.
where is this published, that would be an interesting read.

Right now it looks like a bunch of hyperbole about a receiver that does somethings well if you muniplulate it enough but others not as well. Put out by a vendor who has a lot of stock he needs to get rid of and make a profit.

People are easily suck into this type of marketing look at BOSE for example. I wonder why the major publication haven't caught on to this since it would make a huge story...Mighty Krell defeated by little Panasonic.

Next time I post I will have listen to and made a judgement with my own ears and I would advise this to anyone else before they buy into the hype.
 

Nicholas R

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Don J this is not a new story but a rather old one. Just listen to the damned thing. It's very hard reading your posts with the numerous spelling and grammatical errors. You're incredulous? Just listen to them. What's the point in READING about them?????????????? As I said and you didn't seem to quite clue in to; check audioasylum for more info. As to being a fanboy I still use my 9300 more. When you call me an idiot you'd best be smiling while doing it. Take THAT advice to heart.
One finger typing is no excuse for illiteracy.
 

David Judah

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Guys, we are just having a discussion about audio here, so there's no reason to get snippy. It's not like we're talking about each others momma's.


I will say, with all due respect Don, that focusing on one person's impressions in a 21 page thread is probably not the best route to take if you want to appear unbiased before you listen to one of them. Taken as a whole, there are alot of positive comments, some mixed comments, and some negative comments where the Pannies are concerned.

Subjective impressions will obviously be varied because we all have had different equipment, rooms, and experiences. In absolute terms they are not "Krell killers"(although to show how varied opinions can be, some really dislike the Krell sound as well). What is remarkable is that they can perform so well compared to some other more expensive receivers in some people's opinions. IMO, it shows that digital amplification is the real deal and it will only get better as time goes on if these cheap Panasonics can be made to sound good.

It was curious when Kendrid said they were harsh in the treble because it goes against the overwhelming number of opinions even from people who didn't like it as much for other reasons. Even Kendirid backed away from that statement later in the thread when he said:
That is a completely different statement and again goes back to the nature of audio assessments and how they vary from person to person(just like one person's bright is another person's detailed in speakers).

No one is saying the Panasonics are going to be right for everyone(nothing is right for everyone), but the fact that many people, who do know alot about audio and like these units, says alot. That is in contrast to the Bose phenomenon where people who know little or nothing about audio are buying into the marketing hype--completely different situation.

DJ
 

Dalton

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Well I tried the XR25 against a Yamaha RXV-1400($799msrp) and while the xr25 doesn't have the feature set of the 1400 it does have it beat in the sound quality dept. IMO. I can't believe i am saying that but if i hadn't heard it with my own ears i wouldn't have believed it. I am running Axiom M22's for mains, VP150 Center, and QS8 surrounds. I would describe it as more detailed and accurate than the 1400. And as another point of reference i also owned a Flagship HK AVR8000 and the Panny came damn close in the SQ dept. It obviously doesn't match the HK in power but then again i don't turn it up to ear bleeding levels. The XR25 does get plenty loud(and still clean IMO)for me. Hell for the $$ it beats my Rotel 1066 Preamp/1075 Amp combo that i also owned (I stress for the $$ not overall performance) . The only thing was i bought a store demo and the right surround and back surround didn't work.
I took it back. I am gonna wait for the XR70 and sell my 1400. I'm sold on digital amps.
 

David Judah

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Me too, but I do wish someone would take the TI Equibit technology and put something together in the $1000+ range. As good as the Panasonics are, they are obviously cutting some corners to hit the price points they're at.

What really makes or breaks the overall quality is the power supply and the RFI rejection from what I've read. I imagine the XR70 will be better than previous models on both counts, but I'd still really like to see a no-compromise design down the road(even the XR70, their flagship, is going to retail around $400).

There are the Sony's in the higher price tiers and they really do sound great, IMO, and really don't get the respect they deserve, but it appears they've had some problems. They are not using the Equibit solution, however, which is considered by many in the articles I've read, the cream of the crop in digital amp chips.

DJ
 

David Judah

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I see HK has two new digital receivers the 1005 & 2005 above $1000. Does anyone know what kind of digital amps they use?

DJ
 

JustinG

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The HK digital amps are made by a company called D2 Audio out of Austin. I met with one of their lead engineers last year.
 

JustinG

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The HK digital amps are made by a company called D2 Audio out of Austin. I met with one of their lead engineers last year.
 

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