Epson introduces its most advanced Laser Projector to Date: Epson Pro Cinema 4K PRO-UHD LS12000 (2 Viewers)

[ManW_TheUncool]

^I also have the 5050 (for ~3 years now... and using very similar screen size and viewing distance) and generally agree w/ Josh.

I would add though that the 5050 might be worth getting even (or maybe especially) if you really only plan to use it a couple hours everyday... because the lamp will then likely last the 4-5 years before you might consider another upgrade that should be better than the LS12000 -- and you would've already saved 50% of the LS12000's cost toward that upgrade or to spent on some other upgrade now.

@JasonRoer, what PJ are you upgrading from? Maybe that would help get a better sense of whether the 5050 would be satisfying enough instead of the LS12000.

One thing. I thought the LS12000 would have roughly the same flexibilities as the 5050 though, so that aspect probably won't be significantly different AFAIK.

_Man_

 

[JasonRoer]

Hey Jason, I just purchased the Epson 5050 - I was replacing a 1080p Epson 5030 that had grown a little long in the tooth and it didn’t pay to have it repaired. It’s only been a couple weeks but I am impressed on the jump in quality between the two machines - I was expecting it to be more incremental (especially for watching regular Blu-rays) than it actually was.

I think it’s probably worth considering the 5050 and the LS12000 but not the LS11000. I don’t think the discount on the LS11000 makes up for having what’s essentially the previous model of the LS12000.

The 5050 was my top choice for a few reasons which may or may not apply to your circumstances:
-I’m a big 3D fan and the LS12000 does not do 3D.
-I tend to use my projectors a lot so the 5050’s replaceable lamp was a plus for me over the LS12000’s non-replaceable laser.
-The 5050 has a lot of placement flexibility and a very generous lens shift which was useful to my plan to have movable masking on my screen to allow for a variety of aspect ratios all shown without visible black bars
-For the $2400 I spent on the 5050, it seriously punches above its weight class at that price, and saving money on the projector allowed for other needed upgrades to my setup.
-The 5050 technically does HDR but not to the degree that a flat panel TV or the LS12000 does. The majority of what I watch is content that predates the advent of HDR so HDR is not hugely important to me.

If I was talking to someone who didn’t care about 3D, who didn’t have wacko plans for movable masking and didn’t need tons of extra placement flexibility, or someone who cared about HDR, I would be inclined to recommend giving the LS12000 serious consideration. If you’re not running it hours a day every day, it’s going to last a long, long time. If you watch more content from today rather than 60 years ago, if you’re more likely to watch a hit movie from this summer than a forgotten comedy from 1936, the LS12000 is going to perform better in those circumstances.

But both the 5050 and LS12000 are wonderful machines so there’s really no wrong answer. It’s more about your usage and personal preferences/priorities.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I'm having such a hard time with this decision. My wife laughs about it because I don't even think twice if she asks for something, a new couch that we don't really need and is more about aesthetics, for example. Or something that she wants - a kiln for her pottery hobby. Yet, I feel bad making purchases for myself to the point where she actually has to force me to even buy a new sweater! She tells me I work my butt off and should buy equipment that will enhance something I love so much - cinema.

To your points - I don't watch 3D movies (though every once in a awhile I pop in Friday the 13th Part 3, but that disc came with comic book level 3D glasses ). We watch approx 2hrs at most each night. The 12000 would last us over 20 years. I watch all sorts of content from the dawn of cinema straight up to the modern day. I'm not likely to be doing your cool masking thing. So I guess what I'm saying is that most of the reasons for which you chose the 5050 are not applicable to me. However - I'm also purchasing the Marantz Cinema 50 at the same time, as well as 6 new surround speakers. I think that's where I'm having my hang-up. The dang price difference at a time in which I'm making other expensive equipment purchases (and Xmas, going to Disney, trip to Italy in May, and, and, and.....) - it's just a lot of cash all at once. I think I'd ultimately be happier with the 12000, my wife certainly would with the reduction in heat - man, she hates that our theater is like 4-5 degrees higher than everywhere else in the house.

If this happened to be next year, I don't think I'd even balk at it. I'd likely have already jumped. In the long run, it is cheaper for me to just get the 12000 given how limited our viewing time is and how long it will last. But I also know that I would be happy with the 5050, and with our low viewing habits, we probably wouldn't even need to replace the bulb before we'd just upgrade in a few years to whatever laser tech is around at that time.

Sorry about all this rambling pontification. At least I put a ridiculous amount of thought into big purchases, yeah?

Thanks again for your thoughts. Much appreciated.

 

[JasonRoer]

^I also have the 5050 (for ~3 years now... and using very similar screen size and viewing distance) and generally agree w/ Josh.

I would add though that the 5050 might be worth getting even (or maybe especially) if you really only plan to use it a couple hours everyday... because the lamp will then likely last the 4-5 years before you might consider another upgrade that should be better than the LS12000 -- and you would've already saved 50% of the LS12000's cost toward that upgrade or to spent on some other upgrade now.

@JasonRoer, what PJ are you upgrading from? Maybe that would help get a better sense of whether the 5050 would be satisfying enough instead of the LS12000.

One thing. I thought the LS12000 would have roughly the same flexibilities as the 5050 though, so that aspect probably won't be significantly different AFAIK.

_Man_

I will be upgrading from a BenQ 1080p projector. I can't remember the model offhand. I'm at work right now. But I think I bought it 2 years ago for like $800-$900 or so. It's been great. But it isn't 4K and the blacks are obviously not fantastic. I suspect the 5050 will blow us away in comparison. Basically, the BenQ was a placeholder. We had other expenses that were more important at the time. Doesn't that always seem to be the case?

The only place I never skimp in electronics is on the receiver. They last so long, and if you purchase a higher end model, you future proof yourself for quite sometime. I go with Marantz because I just love the sound I get out of them. I toyed with the Cinema 40, but I think that's likely overkill. The 50 will give us what we need years to come.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Sorry about all this rambling pontification. At least I put a ridiculous amount of thought into big purchases, yeah?

It’s a big decision, I get it. I spent years mentally preparing for what my replacement would be on the projector side, and then months bugging a couple of my audio expert forum friends on what receiver to choose. Even when I had absolutely committed to that I wanted, it still took weeks to actually hit the “order” button.

I think the 5050 for $2400 is an incredible price - you don’t happen to be in the NYC/LI area, do you? If so, PM and I’d be happy to let you see mine in action. But, on the other hand, it is yesterday’s tech. There’s nothing wrong with it but as 4K HDR is increasingly utilized in film and television production, you will miss out on some of the improvements in overall quality that modern productions are taking advantage of.

Forget twenty years on the LS12000, even if you use it infrequently; it just doesn’t seem like anything is built to last more than 5-10 years anymore. You could get 20 years out of it but you could just as easily not. (Same for the 5050). I don’t know if this will help with your decision making but think of this as a 5-10 year purchase and budget accordingly.

They’re both phenomenal machines, that’s the good news. You’re not choosing between two “barely good enough” options - they are both excellent choices.

And they will both indeed blow your BenQ out of the water.

I’m a huge fan of Epson’s 5000 lineup but everything you’re saying about preferences and priorities leads me to believe that if we’re taking money out of the equation, the LS12000 is what you’re looking for both for out of the box performance today and for years to come.

I would almost say that if money is the factor and you feel like next year it wouldn’t bother you to spend more, get the receiver and new speakers now, continue using the BenQ a little bit longer, and grab yourself an LS12000 sometime in 2024 when it’s not a hardship to do so.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

I will be upgrading from a BenQ 1080p projector. I can't remember the model offhand. I'm at work right now. But I think I bought it 2 years ago for like $800-$900 or so. It's been great. But it isn't 4K and the blacks are obviously not fantastic. I suspect the 5050 will blow us away in comparison. Basically, the BenQ was a placeholder. We had other expenses that were more important at the time. Doesn't that always seem to be the case?

The only place I never skimp in electronics is on the receiver. They last so long, and if you purchase a higher end model, you future proof yourself for quite sometime. I go with Marantz because I just love the sound I get out of them. I toyed with the Cinema 40, but I think that's likely overkill. The 50 will give us what we need years to come.

I also had an entry level BenQ 1080p PJ before upgrading to the 5050 3 years ago (actually for same price you're considering... and no sales tax nor shipping cost in my case ). At the time, I actually sorta considered going upto a JVC NX5 IIRC, but decided the $$$ would be better spent on other upgrades (mainly on the audio side) instead... and have absolutely no regrets w/ that.

I went w/ separates for audio -- yes, I've always preferred separates for audio (at least for my main system) -- and that allowed me to much more easily go for a gently used, Anthem AVM60 prepro + some solid Emotiva amps to drive some good speakers (I also upgraded... though my very old Vandersteen 2Ci's were no slouch for the front L/R)... and then probably just upgrade the PJ again some years down the line... as that's probably inevitable anyway (as you noted).

Definitely agreed spending more of the $$$ on the audio side instead of the PJ makes sense given how these things advance and last.

What subwoofer(s) do you have? Maybe you're better off spending that $$$ saved on better sub(s) instead...

_Man_

 

[JasonRoer]

It’s a big decision, I get it. I spent years mentally preparing for what my replacement would be on the projector side, and then months bugging a couple of my audio expert forum friends on what receiver to choose. Even when I had absolutely committed to that I wanted, it still took weeks to actually hit the “order” button.

I think the 5050 for $2400 is an incredible price - you don’t happen to be in the NYC/LI area, do you? If so, PM and I’d be happy to let you see mine in action. But, on the other hand, it is yesterday’s tech. There’s nothing wrong with it but as 4K HDR is increasingly utilized in film and television production, you will miss out on some of the improvements in overall quality that modern productions are taking advantage of.

Forget twenty years on the LS12000, even if you use it infrequently; it just doesn’t seem like anything is built to last more than 5-10 years anymore. You could get 20 years out of it but you could just as easily not. (Same for the 5050). I don’t know if this will help with your decision making but think of this as a 5-10 year purchase and budget accordingly.

They’re both phenomenal machines, that’s the good news. You’re not choosing between two “barely good enough” options - they are both excellent choices.

And they will both indeed blow your BenQ out of the water.

I’m a huge fan of Epson’s 5000 lineup but everything you’re saying about preferences and priorities leads me to believe that if we’re taking money out of the equation, the LS12000 is what you’re looking for both for out of the box performance today and for years to come.

I would almost say that if money is the factor and you feel like next year it wouldn’t bother you to spend more, get the receiver and new speakers now, continue using the BenQ a little bit longer, and grab yourself an LS12000 sometime in 2024 when it’s not a hardship to do so.

Thanks again for your response. Very helpful. Right now I'm actually leaning toward the 5050. As you noted, it will absolutely blow the BenQ out of the water. Also, with how limited our viewing is, We'll have under 5000 hours of usage in 5 years, so I'm guessing I won't even need to replace the bulb. At that point, laser tech will have advanced further, and I can get one at that point.

This way, I'll have a significantly better projector for the present and foreseeable future, and I'll have some extra cash for the 6 surround speakers I'll need. My current receiver is an older model (5.1), and the 2 rear speakers really aren't very good. I figured I might as well upgrade those too and match all the surrounds. This way, the whole upgrade (projector, receiver, surround speakers) will cost approx 6K, rather than just the projector and receiver costing 7.5K.

We'll see how I feel tomorrow. As fast as the tech shifts, so too do my thoughts on which project to purchase!

Oh - and I did live in Manhattan for most of my adult life - in fact, I lived there longer than anywhere else (22 years), however, I've switched sides and I'm now way over in California.

 

[JasonRoer]

I also had an entry level BenQ 1080p PJ before upgrading to the 5050 3 years ago (actually for same price you're considering... and no sales tax nor shipping cost in my case ). At the time, I actually sorta considered going upto a JVC NX5 IIRC, but decided the $$$ would be better spent on other upgrades (mainly on the audio side) instead... and have absolutely no regrets w/ that.

I went w/ separates for audio -- yes, I've always preferred separates for audio (at least for my main system) -- and that allowed me to much more easily go for a gently used, Anthem AVM60 prepro + some solid Emotiva amps to drive some good speakers (I also upgraded... though my very old Vandersteen 2Ci's were no slouch for the front L/R)... and then probably just upgrade the PJ again some years down the line... as that's probably inevitable anyway (as you noted).

Definitely agreed spending more of the $$$ on the audio side instead of the PJ makes sense given how these things advance and last.

What subwoofer(s) do you have? Maybe you're better off spending that $$$ saved on better sub(s) instead...

_Man_

I've always been interested in separates, however, I've also been intimidated by them. I feel like I'd be building my own car, you know? Also, I'm not sure I'll need that kind of power.

As for my speakers, I have B+Ws (including 2 center channels, which is really awesome). My sub is a Polk. I'm at work again (yeah, I work on Sats) so I don't have the exact model, however, I've enjoyed it. My plan is to get at least 2 more subs in the future for the possible 4 with the Marantz receiver, if not the full 4. I'm definitely happy with my front 3 (or in this case, front 4 with the double center). Do you have any recs for the 6 surrounds I need? I'm not sure how much umph I'll need for them. I'd like to keep the 6 in the 1K range (for all 6, obviously not 1K for each of the 6).

Thanks in advance.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Thanks again for your response. Very helpful. Right now I'm actually leaning toward the 5050. As you noted, it will absolutely blow the BenQ out of the water. Also, with how limited our viewing is, We'll have under 5000 hours of usage in 5 years, so I'm guessing I won't even need to replace the bulb. At that point, laser tech will have advanced further, and I can get one at that point.

This way, I'll have a significantly better projector for the present and foreseeable future, and I'll have some extra cash for the 6 surround speakers I'll need. My current receiver is an older model (5.1), and the 2 rear speakers really aren't very good. I figured I might as well upgrade those too and match all the surrounds. This way, the whole upgrade (projector, receiver, surround speakers) will cost approx 6K, rather than just the projector and receiver costing 7.5K.

We'll see how I feel tomorrow. As fast as the tech shifts, so too do my thoughts on which project to purchase!

Oh - and I did live in Manhattan for most of my adult life - in fact, I lived there longer than anywhere else (22 years), however, I've switched sides and I'm now way over in California.

I think that’s a very reasonable approach towards getting a significant overhaul completed immediately and you’ll absolutely have a phenomenal experience with this combination of stuff if you choose to do so.

 

[JasonRoer]

I think that’s a very reasonable approach towards getting a significant overhaul completed immediately and you’ll absolutely have a phenomenal experience with this combination of stuff if you choose to do so.

I have surprised myself and decided on the 5050 definitively. Even more surprising, I've decided on the Cinema 60 rather than the Cinema 50. I looked today and the 60 dropped to $1351 from $1700. It's now $1150 less than the Cinema 50. I just cannot justify that much more money for a receiver the power of which I won't need until approx 5 years from now when we start building our next home, assuming that even happens in 5 years. We may not even build that soon. The plan is to build a dedicated structure on the property that houses a game room/bar in one section, and the home theater in the other section complete with risers for at least 2 if not 3 rows of seats.

The home theater room in this house really isn't big enough to take advantage of the 50. I mean, obviously it would be cool to have the kind of power the 50 can produce, but the 60 will be more than adequate. Also, I'll only need to purchase 4 rather than 6 surround speakers.

Anyway, I appreciate the feedback. I'll let you all know how I'm enjoying the upgrades when I get everything purchased and installed.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I've decided on the Cinema 60 rather than the Cinema 50.

For the Cinema60, check out the refurbished version from Accessories 4 Less - it’s been reconditioned by Marantz, they’re an authorized seller, and you get a 5 year warranty and it’s $899

MARANTZ Cinema 60 7.2-Ch x 100 Watts A/V 8K Receiver

Marantz Factory Refurbished

www.accessories4less.com

I seriously considered getting this myself but it was just too much horsepower for what I needed.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

IF you don't mind going refurbed -- and that's probably what I'd do, if I were considering that unit -- then that refurbed Cinema 60 seems like a no-brainer as long as you know you'll likely wanna upgrade to a new AVR (or separates) sooner than later, which of course, still could be several years away.

IF you definitely want something that will actually last well beyond your current setup, then the Cinema 50 makes more sense, especially if you wanna eventually implement Atmos for that next space/setup. The 50 can also be upgraded to Dirac Live for significantly better audio tuning/calibration than the included Audyssey.

Either way, it'd also be worth considering adding a modest cost external amp to the setup (regardless of whether you go w/ the 60 or 50) whether dedicated to the front LCR or the surrounds to improve overall audio quality if you do play your movies fairly loud... and/or go w/ better subs -- I'd suggest checking out SVS or maybe Hsu or some others that specialize in subs, probably not Polk. For a modest space and usually only a couple viewers, 1 good sub (maybe costing <=$1K or maybe a slight bit more) might be enough -- some would want more/better, but you probably don't wanna spend much more on subs than the AVR (or PJ)... Something like the SVS SB-3000 would be good -- and then, you can just add another SB-3000 later if needed.

Good sub(s) would help mitigate at least some of the needs for amp power (as well as typical weakness in bass extension) for the rest of the speakers... as you can then offload more of the power-hungry bass to the sub(s).

_Man_

 

[JasonRoer]

For the Cinema60, check out the refurbished version from Accessories 4 Less - it’s been reconditioned by Marantz, they’re an authorized seller, and you get a 5 year warranty and it’s $899

MARANTZ Cinema 60 7.2-Ch x 100 Watts A/V 8K Receiver

Marantz Factory Refurbished

www.accessories4less.com

I seriously considered getting this myself but it was just too much horsepower for what I needed.

I'll have to give it a look. I'm sort of on the fence about refurbed products. I've had some outstanding refurbs. But I also had a couple clunkers. Then again, saving $400 sure would be nice.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I'll have to give it a look. I'm sort of on the fence about refurbed products. I've had some outstanding refurbs. But I also had a couple clunkers. Then again, saving $400 sure would be nice.

Marantz did the refurb themselves, and A4L is backing it with a five year warranty - it doesn’t come with that good of a warranty if it’s new. About as risk free as you can get!

Our resident audio expert @JohnRice has nothing but good things to say about buying refurbs from A4L so especially if you’re thinking about this as being something you’re gonna use closer to 5 years than 20, I don’t see any downside but lots of upside.

 

[JasonRoer]

IF you don't mind going refurbed -- and that's probably what I'd do, if I were considering that unit -- then that refurbed Cinema 60 seems like a no-brainer as long as you know you'll likely wanna upgrade to a new AVR (or separates) sooner than later, which of course, still could be several years away.

IF you definitely want something that will actually last well beyond your current setup, then the Cinema 50 makes more sense, especially if you wanna eventually implement Atmos for that next space/setup. The 50 can also be upgraded to Dirac Live for significantly better audio tuning/calibration than the included Audyssey.

Either way, it'd also be worth considering adding a modest cost external amp to the setup (regardless of whether you go w/ the 60 or 50) whether dedicated to the front LCR or the surrounds to improve overall audio quality if you do play your movies fairly loud... and/or go w/ better subs -- I'd suggest checking out SVS or maybe Hsu or some others that specialize in subs, probably not Polk. For a modest space and usually only a couple viewers, 1 good sub (maybe costing <=$1K or maybe a slight bit more) might be enough -- some would want more/better, but you probably don't wanna spend much more on subs than the AVR (or PJ)... Something like the SVS SB-3000 would be good -- and then, you can just add another SB-3000 later if needed.

Good sub(s) would help mitigate at least some of the needs for amp power (as well as typical weakness in bass extension) for the rest of the speakers... as you can then offload more of the power-hungry bass to the sub(s).

_Man_

As I stated in my reply to Josh, I've had some fantastic refurbs, but a couple clunkers as well. So I'm not sure what to do on that front. My wife has had bad luck with refurbs, so I know what she'd say.

As for subs. Yes, I do intend to eventually upgrade. SVS was on the shortlist. And yes, I also have considered eventually adding external amps when we build the future home theater. My stepfather bought external amps for the front 3 and I remember the massive difference it made. He has B+Ws too. Got my love of home theater from him.

I will definitely want the equivalent of the cinema 50 for the next home theater. I think it's just not worth it right now considering we won't need that power for at least 5 years. If I do go with the refurb 60 for $900, it's a no-brainer given the current room. Even if I buy new from amazon, it's 1351, 1149 less than the 50.

 

[JasonRoer]

Marantz did the refurb themselves, and A4L is backing it with a five year warranty - it doesn’t come with that good of a warranty if it’s new. About as risk free as you can get!

Our resident audio expert @JohnRice has nothing but good things to say about buying refurbs from A4L so especially if you’re thinking about this as being something you’re gonna use closer to 5 years than 20, I don’t see any downside but lots of upside.

Well Jeez, with that kind of endorsement! I'll talk it over with my wife when I get home. I mean, with that 5 year warranty, I imagine she'd overlook the refurb thing. I wonder how fast they can get it to me. It says ships within 1-2 business days. My wife is going to Hawaii with her friends starting next Sunday. I'd love to have it at the house with the new projector so I can use that whole day to get everything set up. I mean, she won't be back until the following Saturday, but I'd also love to surprise her with as much of the detail work as I can pull off in the theater. Though it's not a huge space, I'm designing it to look like a 1930s movie palace. It would be wonderful for her to return to it being close to completed.


WHOA - I just checked their site and they have the Cinema 50 for $1399. HMMM. Uh oh. Now I'm questioning whether to grab the 50 now since that will be what I would want in the future anyway. I don't know. It's tempting for sure.

 

[JohnRice]

Well Jeez, with that kind of endorsement! I'll talk it over with my wife when I get home. I mean, with that 5 year warranty, I imagine she'd overlook the refurb thing. I wonder how fast they can get it to me. It says ships within 1-2 business days. My wife is going to Hawaii with her friends starting next Sunday. I'd love to have it at the house with the new projector so I can use that whole day to get everything set up. I mean, she won't be back until the following Saturday, but I'd also love to surprise her with as much of the detail work as I can pull off in the theater. Though it's not a huge space, I'm designing it to look like a 1930s movie palace. It would be wonderful for her to return to it being close to completed.


WHOA - I just checked their site and they have the Cinema 50 for $1399. HMMM. Uh oh. Now I'm questioning whether to grab the 50 now since that will be what I would want in the future anyway. I don't know. It's tempting for sure.

Don't lump all refurbs together as the same. The only refurbs I ever buy are Apple products direct from Apple (and only direct from Apple) and A4L. In fact, a few months ago I bought the Cinema 60 reburb from A4L and it looks and functions as new. As Josh mentioned, it comes with the full Marantz warranty, plus an extended warranty to get a total of five years. The only difference I see is that it comes in a somewhat generic shipping box.

 

[JasonRoer]

Don't lump all refurbs together as the same. The only refurbs I ever buy are Apple products direct from Apple (and only direct from Apple) and A4L. In fact, a few months ago I bought the Cinema 60 reburb from A4L and it looks and functions as new. As Josh mentioned, it comes with the full Marantz warranty, plus an extended warranty to get a total of five years. The only difference I see is that it comes in a somewhat generic shipping box.

Do you feel it is worth tossing in an extra $500 to get the refurbed Cinema 50 if I eventually want the 50 anyway? I won't really need that kind of power for 5 years, but it seems that $500 isn't a heck of a lot if the longevity of the product would be there.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

WHOA - I just checked their site and they have the Cinema 50 for $1399. HMMM. Uh oh. Now I'm questioning whether to grab the 50 now since that will be what I would want in the future anyway. I don't know. It's tempting for sure.

My quick thoughts on AVRs and future proofing - it seems like the HDMI standard gets altered every ten years or so, and that, more than anything, is what causes receivers to become dated. There are a lot of members here who bought what were labeled as “4K capable receivers” circa 2014 that wound up being useless for that purpose in 2016 when the HDMI standard was revised and upgraded to include copy protection that the 2014 models couldn’t decode.

So if you have use for what the 50 offers you today, by all means, get it. But if it’s more about “in five years in a new home I may use those functions” I’d say wait. The HDMI standard was last revised a few years ago and there’s a chance it could happen again within five years and that might actually interfere with your future proofing attempts.

I think if your goal is to get a great system up and running now and to revise it later on, the combo of an on-sale Epson 5050 and a refurb Marantz 60 is a pretty great deal towards getting you a great system now at a really amazing price point. The $2600 you’re saving now by not getting the LS12000, and the several hundred you’d be saving on the refurb Marantz is a really great savings.

 

[JohnRice]

Do you feel it is worth tossing in an extra $500 to get the refurbed Cinema 50 if I eventually want the 50 anyway? I won't really need that kind of power for 5 years, but it seems that $500 isn't a heck of a lot if the longevity of the product would be there.

At this particular time, five years is nothing. There have already been too many useless developments in surround gear lately. I doubt anything truly useful is on the way. So, my suggestion is not to throw away money to "save" in the short term. I'd just go ahead and get the 50.

However... don't buy the 50 for the insignificant increase in power over the 60. The reason to buy the 50 is for the additional surround channels.

 

[JohnRice]

So Josh and I are in agreement...