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Epson introduces its most advanced Laser Projector to Date: Epson Pro Cinema 4K PRO-UHD LS12000 (1 Viewer)

Martin Dew

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I think it's worth mentioning that Epson issued a 1.04 firmware update for the 6050UB (the LS12000's lamp-based forerunner) a few months ago. It included a 3x pixel shift enhancement improving resolution, brightness, HDR brightness and contrast. I found the results stunning, and I'm told it puts the performance almost in line with the laser-based model. So, if you're looking for a cheaper and potentially more available projector, it might be worth considering?
 

John Dirk

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I think it's worth mentioning that Epson issued a 1.04 firmware update for the 6050UB (the LS12000's lamp-based forerunner) a few months ago. It included a 3x pixel shift enhancement improving resolution, brightness, HDR brightness and contrast. I found the results stunning, and I'm told it puts the performance almost in line with the laser-based model. So, if you're looking for a cheaper and potentially more available projector, it might be worth considering?
Pretty sure I've already installed this latest firmware update on my 6050. I was aware of the 3x pixel shift addition but can't say I've noticed any improvement in brightness, HDR or contrast. I need to take a critical look to confirm. Either way, at this point [other than the obvious lamp vs laser issue] the main downside for the 6050 is it's lack of a dynamic tone-mapping solution.
 

Martin Dew

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Pretty sure I've already installed this latest firmware update on my 6050. I was aware of the 3x pixel shift addition but can't say I've noticed any improvement in brightness, HDR or contrast. I need to take a critical look to confirm. Either way, at this point [other than the obvious lamp vs laser issue] the main downside for the 6050 is it's lack of a dynamic tone-mapping solution.
Look at the screen close up to start with, John. The pixel borders should now almost be undetectable at 24 fps. Image is consequently much sharper. There was a lot of talk about this in owner threads on the other channels. (It was f/w 1.03, not 1.04 as I originally said.) I also found this article:

 
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John Dirk

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Look at the screen close up to start with, John. The pixel borders should now almost be undetectable at 24 fps. Image is consequently much sharper. There was a lot of talk about this in owner threads on the other channels. (It was f/w 1.03, not 1.04 as I originally said.) I also found this article:

Thanks @Martin Dew . Yes, I read this article before installing the firmware update, I'd say maybe 4 or 5 months ago. While I haven't visually confirmed, I suspect the 3x pixel shifting is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. What I don't understand is how this would affect HDR, brightness or contrast. I'm not overly concerned about resolution at this point.

The 6050 has been a great projector for me and I have no major complaints. If I am going to upgrade, however, I'd have to insist on improved black levels and dynamic tone-mapping in addition to the laser light engine. I'm hoping Epson already understands this and will have a suitable model coming in the not-too-distant future.
 

Martin Dew

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According to Epson and via a couple of the other forums, John, there were incremental changes to brightness and HDR tone mapping in that update. I've also had anecdotal reports from some of my contacts here that they're getting better brightness from formerly problematic HDR sources. I was really impressed with what I saw after that update. I will get confirmation of all 1.03/1.04 enhancements from my Epson factory contact this side of the pond and report back. (I currently have a different PJ set up in my AV room, so I may slot my 6050 back in.)

I also appreciated the resolution uptick because screendoor was noticeable before at certain distances and text less finely resolved.
 

John Dirk

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According to Epson and via a couple of the other forums, John, there were incremental changes to brightness and HDR tone mapping in that update. I've also had anecdotal reports from some of my contacts here that they're getting better brightness from formerly problematic HDR sources. I was really impressed with what I saw after that update. I will get confirmation of all 1.03/1.04 enhancements from my Epson factory contact this side of the pond and report back. (I currently have a different PJ set up in my AV room, so I may slot my 6050 back in.)

I also appreciated the resolution uptick because screendoor was noticeable before at certain distances and text less finely resolved.

I don't doubt the improvements are there, I just wasn't previously aware. The 6050 is already plenty bright, especially in a light-controlled room.

Here is the likely reason for any confusion in the firmware version numbers.

1658699575435.png
 

DaveF

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The 6050 has been a great projector for me and I have no major complaints. If I am going to upgrade, however, I'd have to insist on improved black levels and dynamic tone-mapping in addition to the laser light engine. I'm hoping Epson already understands this and will have a suitable model coming in the not-too-distant future.
My guess is that Epson won’t have anything like you want for another two design iterations. So, 4-6 years from now? Or, by the time they’ve got it sorted, 120” direct views will be available for projector prices?

Good luck playing the waiting game! I say as a fellow and weary participant. :)
 

ManW_TheUncool

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My guess is that Epson won’t have anything like you want for another two design iterations. So, 4-6 years from now? Or, by the time they’ve got it sorted, 120” direct views will be available for projector prices?

Good luck playing the waiting game! I say as a fellow and weary participant. :)

That'd work just fine for me since I don't really wanna (and wasn't planning to) upgrade again (from my 1.5-yo 5050) so soon anyway, LOL.

_Man_
 

John Dirk

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My guess is that Epson won’t have anything like you want for another two design iterations. So, 4-6 years from now? Or, by the time they’ve got it sorted, 120” direct views will be available for projector prices?

Good luck playing the waiting game! I say as a fellow and weary participant. :)
Perhaps. Until something truly compelling comes along, however, I believe waiting actually is the smarter choice. After all, we both already have perfectly serviceable projectors and I expect my next one to likely be my last.
 

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Perhaps. Until something truly compelling comes along, however, I believe waiting actually is the smarter choice. After all, we both already have perfectly serviceable projectors and I expect my next one to likely be my last.
Well, I do want to upgrade to 4K, am getting tired of waiting, and don’t think I’m at final projector purchase. I’ll know more hopefully after the Raleigh con in a couple weeks. :)
 

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Congrats @Mark-P ! Can't wait to hear more of your impressions once you get things dialed in. Maybe even a few pics?

I also want to congratulate Mark on his new projector purchase. Keep us posted on your impressions!
So, having had a couple weeks to settle in, my verdict is that it is undoubtably the best projector I've ever owned. The clarity (due to 4-way pixel shifting giving me true 4K) is a very noticeable improvement, and as I said before the brightness of this projector is a major difference from what I've had in the past. It makes it feel more like a giant flatscreen rather than a projector. The boost in brightness really helps with HDR, which makes for a vivid, colorful image with a level of shadow detail that I was never able to see on my former projectors. The only thing that wasn't improved (at least that I can tell) is the black levels which are about the same, and considering that they were really good before, I don't have any complaints.

Epson LS12000.jpg
 

John Dirk

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Thanks for the update, @Mark-P

Probably a bit soon to ask but have you found yourself adjusting the HDR controls mid-film due to inconsistent brightness levels? Looks like you're coming from a 5040 which has very similar [dynamic] contrast specs as my 6050. I can't find ANSI contrast specs for the 6050 but the 5040 appears to be about 4476:1 [post calibration], so I'd assume the 6050 is roughly the same.
 

Mark-P

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Thanks for the update, @Mark-P

Probably a bit soon to ask but have you found yourself adjusting the HDR controls mid-film due to inconsistent brightness levels? Looks like you're coming from a 5040 which has very similar [dynamic] contrast specs as my 6050. I can't find ANSI contrast specs for the 6050 but the 5040 appears to be about 4476:1 [post calibration], so I'd assume the 6050 is roughly the same.
The HDR slider has 16 steps with 1 being the brightest setting and 16 being the darkest. I have it set smack in the middle at 8 and have never felt the need to adjust it as everything looks great to me at that level. But I also don't obsess over things like that either, It honestly looks fine set in the middle. There is also a "scene adaptive gamma" slider that I've read improves contrast. I have that set in the middle as well. I ended up using "natural" picture setting with light output set at 90% for HDR and 60% for SDR. I also adjusted the color temperature from 6500K to 7500K which will be controversial to some, but black and white images looked too brown at 6500K to me.
 

Gregg Loewen

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The HDR slider has 16 steps with 1 being the brightest setting and 16 being the darkest. I have it set smack in the middle at 8 and have never felt the need to adjust it as everything looks great to me at that level. But I also don't obsess over things like that either, It honestly looks fine set in the middle. There is also a "scene adaptive gamma" slider that I've read improves contrast. I have that set in the middle as well. I ended up using "natural" picture setting with light output set at 90% for HDR and 60% for SDR. I also adjusted the color temperature from 6500K to 7500K which will be controversial to some, but black and white images looked too brown at 6500K to me.
hi Mark, you may want to consider a professional calibration to get your PJ optimized?

On a related note, I have 1 Epson LS12000 in stock right now. Ready for immediate installation.
 

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It shows 4K content.

Projectors don’t do Dolby Vision. Dolby hasn’t created a DV spec for projectors.
Just noticed this thread as I started looking at home projectors. I am puzzled by the comment of no Dolby Vision for projectors as I see several claiming the support it, e.g., a Hisense model. Has the situation changed in the last yesr?
 

John Dirk

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Just noticed this thread as I started looking at home projectors. I am puzzled by the comment of no Dolby Vision for projectors as I see several claiming the support it, e.g., a Hisense model. Has the situation changed in the last yesr?
I noticed the same thing and had the same question. Looks like they are here, for better or worse.

 

DaveF

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Just noticed this thread as I started looking at home projectors. I am puzzled by the comment of no Dolby Vision for projectors as I see several claiming the support it, e.g., a Hisense model. Has the situation changed in the last yesr?
Some UST projectors are supporting it. Presumably since they sell a paired screen and projector combo they can provide the data Dolby requires to license DV.

I don’t think any conventional front projectors support Dolby Vision.
 

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Good afternoon, all. I am trying to decide between purchasing the 5050UB, the LS11000, or the LS12000. Essentially, I'm trying to determine if it makes sense to spend the extra $ for the current crop of laser projectors. I can pick up the 5050UB for $2400 vs the $4000 and $5000 respectively for the 11000 and 12000. I didn't know if it made sense to just purchase the 5050UB and use it for 4-5 years or so, then see where the tech is at at that point.

The theater room is dedicated and light controlled, so ambient light would only occur if someone happens to walk in. The screen is 120". We sit about 10' away from the screen. I can say that my wife is not a fan of the heat from a bulb projector, which I understand. However, the new projector will be back further than the current projector.

Any advice would be much appreciated. I don't have a problem spending the 4K for the 11000 or 5K for the 12000. I just want to make sure that it was worth that jump in price.

Oh - and lastly - I keep hearing mixed things about whether the laser can be replaced or if after 20,000 hours, the projector is simply done. We usually only watch 2hrs/night and we go away a lot, so we don't use the home theater for at least 4 weeks/year. 20,000hrs would obviously be way into the future for us.
 

Josh Steinberg

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Hey Jason, I just purchased the Epson 5050 - I was replacing a 1080p Epson 5030 that had grown a little long in the tooth and it didn’t pay to have it repaired. It’s only been a couple weeks but I am impressed on the jump in quality between the two machines - I was expecting it to be more incremental (especially for watching regular Blu-rays) than it actually was.

I think it’s probably worth considering the 5050 and the LS12000 but not the LS11000. I don’t think the discount on the LS11000 makes up for having what’s essentially the previous model of the LS12000.

The 5050 was my top choice for a few reasons which may or may not apply to your circumstances:
-I’m a big 3D fan and the LS12000 does not do 3D.
-I tend to use my projectors a lot so the 5050’s replaceable lamp was a plus for me over the LS12000’s non-replaceable laser.
-The 5050 has a lot of placement flexibility and a very generous lens shift which was useful to my plan to have movable masking on my screen to allow for a variety of aspect ratios all shown without visible black bars
-For the $2400 I spent on the 5050, it seriously punches above its weight class at that price, and saving money on the projector allowed for other needed upgrades to my setup.
-The 5050 technically does HDR but not to the degree that a flat panel TV or the LS12000 does. The majority of what I watch is content that predates the advent of HDR so HDR is not hugely important to me.

If I was talking to someone who didn’t care about 3D, who didn’t have wacko plans for movable masking and didn’t need tons of extra placement flexibility, or someone who cared about HDR, I would be inclined to recommend giving the LS12000 serious consideration. If you’re not running it hours a day every day, it’s going to last a long, long time. If you watch more content from today rather than 60 years ago, if you’re more likely to watch a hit movie from this summer than a forgotten comedy from 1936, the LS12000 is going to perform better in those circumstances.

But both the 5050 and LS12000 are wonderful machines so there’s really no wrong answer. It’s more about your usage and personal preferences/priorities.
 

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