ENTERPRISE renewed (all discussion here please!) (1 Viewer)

[Rex Bachmann]

(from Trek Today) (post #159):



There are estimated to be hundreds of billions of stars in our Milky Way Galaxy alone, with who-knows-how-many worlds and other environmental niches where life of some kind might dwell with something interesting to tell stories about. Why must Hollywood-produced "scifi" movies and television traverse the "same-old same old" paths over and over and over (and over) again?!?

 

[Jack Briggs]

I suppose it's because "aliens" that aren't simply humans with funny foreheads or hair would require too much imagination to write about. And all that science stuff those silly literary SF writers care about so much about (especially if they want to be published regularly) would become part of the weekly writing agenda. Far easier to recycle Trek cliches, to write about "governing councils" and "alliances" and to visit the planet Reisa (or Risa or however it is spelled).

 

[Will_B]

Loving that idea.

 

[Will_B]

I just want to add that I am not against people having negative opinions about the show, but some folks just come here to take the proverbial sh't in the sandbox.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Oh, I don't think so, Will. It's hard to convery, sometimes, how what Paramount has done to this pop-culture tradition looks like from the perspective of someone who fell in love with it back in September, 1966. And whose love for it became even stronger as a result of the first two spinoff series.

But the current show has its fans, and a small venue for expressing appreciation of it here at HTF seems reasonable.

Your opinions still would be required in the "official" episode discussions, however.

 

[Will_B]

Well thanks. And of course there may not be enough E fans to make a Buffytastic type thread even work. Maybe just a little more discretion on the part of the folks who dont actually watch the show would be enough of a gesture to make the two-thread idea not needed. But looking back, where each week's thread begin with ten negative posts before the episode has even aired doesn't give me much hope... it seems that Aint it Cool News has invaded and destroyed the Enterprise threads.

 

[Nelson Au]

What a coincidence Jack, I have been working up a draft for an Enterprise S4/modern Star Trek preview and appreciation thread that I had hoped to post in the next couple of days or week. Perhaps it will have to wait till the new season? I am just making sure I get my points sorted out. The intent was to make it a thread to discuss the new coming season based on the events of last, plus discuss all the latest news for S4 that has come out from Paramount and other Trek sites.

I of course know that this thread is pretty much doing this. I tried in one post here to veer this thread in that direction with a positive tone and was immediately put down. So I was hoping for a place where the intent is for the "small' fan base that comes here to talk openly and with critical points of view as well as positive about Star Trek Enterprise and modern Trek. And as one of the moderators once said many months ago, one is free to start such a thread where we can discuss Trek without the negative comments, those who do not like modern Star Trek will leave us alone. (Assuming the thread will last very long)

I have read the other recent posts and I can understand the points of view that a thread that only allows positive comments goes against the grain of an open forum. I don't believe anyone here wants that, including those who like Enterprise. And who is to decide what is cynical and negative, that's a very fair comment. I suppose the thread would need a rule, like the thread for Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911 to keep that one within forum rules. Perhaps the thread abides be a rule where the comments do not put someone else's comments on the defensive. I know this sounds silly to some given the HTF forum rules for posting, but the comments by some do come off that way. And the idea is not to force anyone to tread softly on eggshells (not that anyone would). The best way to put what I think is plaguing these Trek threads is that the “tone” is the negative aspect that puts us off. Having said that, I am very aware that the comments by the so-called “negative posters” are just as passionate fans of Star Trek and honestly want to see it succeed, and so the passion is expressed with great emotion here.

Jack, if you'd prefer that such a thread be held off until the new season, I can understand and walk away.

Finally, William Shatner did put all this into perspective once; It’s only a TV show!

Nelson

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Ok, I'm a little slow. I just figured out what the dots after what Voyager was supposed to do mean!

No seriously, therein lies part of the problem. With Voyager, a lot of viewers of the other shows didn't know what Voyager was, and what direction it was going in.

Now before you think I'm changing my mind (because I did like it) the theme behind Voyager was to take a trip. A very long trip.

This has been used on TNG and TOS, but they find their way home before the hour is up (isn't that just as lame?). In Voyager, the whole series was a voyage. Too many people tuned in just now and then and finished with a blank stare on their faces. If you missed one episode, (unlike TOS and TNG), you might run into problems because they referred to something that happened in an episode that you missed.

Nope, I'm not going to reveal what Enterprise is up to. Sorry, guys! But once again, they have injected subject matter that could not have been done in the other series, becaue it was just not available - they introduced travel through time. In order to preserve as much as they could of what happened in TOS and TNG, certain things would have to take place. The jerks from the future's job was to keep things in order.

Enterprise is NOT TOS or TNG. If you are expecting that, then you are not going to like it. I can accept that, but accept too that time has been screwed up, and once that has been done, you must ask yourself exactly how far back in time do you have to go to fix everything?

It's like asking what if someone had put Adolf Hitler in the morgue when he was only 8. Our world would not be the same as it is today. My expectations of this show are neither high nor low, because I refuse to compare them. It's apples and oranges. Yeah, they both grow on trees, but that is it.

And I must state again that the reason a lot of people think that TNG is the cat's meow (or whatever) is just because of Stewart. If he were replaced by an unknown, would you still have watched it?

Glenn

 

[Dave Scarpa]

I enjoy Enterprise for what it is a mild Sci fi show with some enjoyable Characters. The Stories and Show's direction could be better but it's an enjoyable hour diversion. Trek Fan like myself and others have alot of opinions a=on how the show should be. Many decry that the staff does'nt use to it's advantage the incredible amount of backstory built up in TOS and for twenty years in novel's erc to tell the story of the federation. And it would be nice if they hired someone with a fanboy mentality to oversee the show but folks this isn't happenning. THe producer made a mistake when they alluded to what this show would be about and then took it in their intended direction. They are using the early years of Starfleet to tell their story much like the movie Titanic only used the ship's disaster as a backdrop to tell "their" love story. Or Pearl Harbor used that tragedy for the Same thing. Am I happy they did this, no, but I can still enjoy it for what it is. I enjoy Enterprise because for the most part the characters are a bit better defined than they were in Voyager and I like the cast.
I wish they made Archer a bit m ore easy going than the hardass they are trying to mold him into. Backula formed a nce character in Sam Beckett and I think he could do it again here if he was written better, and there certainly room to improve the supporting characters like Hoshi and Merrywheather.

But has'nt that been true of every Trek series (Maybe sans DS9) How much did you know about Uhura or Chekov, or Deanna and Doc Crusher? The series have always had it's triad of stars.

I welcome Another Year of Trek and hopefully some of the new creative staff can inject some fresh Ideas and make some good drama.

 

[TheLongshot]

I agree, it isn't. Or, at least it isn't supposed to be.

Problem is, Berman and Braga don't seem to realise this.

Like Voyager before it, it has turned into "generic" Trek. Some of the same conventions, but no soul.

I don't think fans wanted more of the same. They wanted to "boldy go where noone had gone before." Unfortunatly, this isn't it.

Jason

 

[Moe Maishlish]

Sorry Rex, but I don't think it's that terrible an idea, and I frankly don't think it's unoriginal or revisionist. In fact, I think that, handled correctly, this direction may be as compelling and interesting as many of the courtroom dramas our there. Maybe this plot could evolve into a mix of Law & Order & Trek... who knows? But I'm not expecting every last minutia of Trek's past to dictate the direction this show must take. I'm willing to allow the writers & producers some breathing room for creativity, and we'll see where they take the show.

Frankly, my perspective is to accept Trek as a television show that provides me with mild entertainment value on a weekly basis. Sure - there's a history to the various series', but I'm not a Trek-zealot and I don't have to reference every resource in Trekdom to enjoy an episode or plotline at hand. I've seen many a crapfest of episodes from every incarnation of trek (TOS, TNG, DS9 & Voyager), and watching some of these shows today reveals how rose-colored my glasses were the first time I saw them.

Yes, I'm sure there are some inconsistencies between some Ent. episodes and the other Trek shows, and no doubt you'll find some more of those inconsistencies in your own resources (i.e. The Star Trek Encyclopedia: A Reference Guide to the Future, by Michael and Denise Okuda (2nd, rev. and updated ed., Pocket Books, 1999)), but not everyone here has embraced Trek to the level that you (and others) have, and as such we are just not aware of the minutia and details that you may be. I applaud you for your devotion to the Trek, but it doesn't interest everyone else to the same degree that it might interest you or others, so we just don't hold it up to the same measuring stick. Sorry. This doesn't mean that we don't have good or discriminating tastes - it might just mean that we are not as detailed in our criticism, and we're willing to allow certain things to slide... for me, it's a TV show.

Frankly, sometimes reading through the Trek threads and getting attacked or criticized for being a supporter of the show feels like I'm sitting in a restaurant, enjoying a nice bottle of modest wine. Then some wine-snob from another table will walk over and chastize me for my poor-taste in wine, how what I'm drinking is garbage, and how they have far more refined and distinguised tastes. You can guess where this might go from here...

You know what? Good for you!!! Enjoy what you want to enjoy, and I'll enjoy what I want to enjoy. All the power to you, and may health and happiness be with you for all the days of your lives. But please - live & let live, and spare us your critique of our tastes.

Not long ago in one of the more recent Enterprise episode threads, someone posted "Enjoy, suckers!" before the episode even aired. This kind of post pretty much embodies the kind of disrespect & disdain that a lot of people seem to feel when reading through the enterprise threads.

A few posts ago, someone mentioned that supporters of Enterprise don't provide sufficient evidence of why we like what we're watching. You know... as supporters of Enterprise, I don't think we owe the detractors anything. You hate it for the reasons you do, and we like it for the reasons that we do. Just like I don't think it's necessarily fair for someone to dissect why they like their car/house/favorite food/cat/dog/wife/husband, I think it's silly to expect us to defend our appreciation of something that we enjoy as a whole. I don't want to make it seem like I'm talking in circles here, but it feels like the second we voice our appreciation of the series we're wearing a Scarlet Letter on our vests, and become targets for the "True Trek Fans" who seem to know better than us.

I'll stop venting now...

Moe.

 

[Mikel_Cooperman]

Point the finger all you want but we are not the reason people are tuning out in droves.

Funny how we are getting the backlash now because we have high standards for Trek.

 

[Moe Maishlish]

I think he's referring to the threads, not the show itself. People making negative posts in the threads make it uncomfortable for others to discuss the show. Hence, the negative discussion is driving people out of the threads, not making them "tune out in droves".

Moe.

 

[Jason Seaver]

Me again. And I think you're mischaracterizing what I said, or at least why I said it. I simply pointed out that those of us who were disappointed with Enterprise were at least articulating why, rather than complaining about the other folks speaking or using the bogus "lower your standards!" tack.

Sure, you don't owe me anything. But if you want to contribute to an actual discussion, then coming up with some whys and hows would really help.

 

[Moe Maishlish]

Jason,


I think it's possible to have a discussion without contantly referring to the negative characteristics of the show (or it's writers/producers/fans), and discussing other aspects... like the plot, story, and characters. Contributing to a discussion doesn't mean that the discussion always has to end with a negative conclusion... and I think that's what a lot of people are taking issue with.

Moe.

 

[BobV]

Wow do I agree with everything that Moe said. As well, and no offense Jason, but I am aware of how long the 'enjoy suckers' has been on the radar map, the problem I have is that it has no other purpose than to slap all those who enjoy Ent in the face. And for the life of me I can't understand why stuff like that is allowed. If a comment like that was made in any other thread on this board it would be seen as a 'thread fart' and chastized immediately.


"But if you want to contribute to an actual discussion, then coming up with some whys and hows would really help."

I want to come here and discuss Enterprise, I don't want to have to defend the show every other post. There is a big difference between 'discussing' and 'defending'. A whole thread of defending why you liked the episode is totally different from a thread that discusses the episode. The odd defense is fine, but when every second post is a dump on what you enjoy... guess what... it beats you down and you don't post anymore.

I would very much like to discuss Ent here, but I don't, and won't (at least not much at all) until something changes, and it sounds like there's a few other people like that as well.

 

[Mikel_Cooperman]

This is not just any show though it's a franchise and how can you not compare it to Trek that has come before it, or to go with the analogy used before, a bottle of wine that you are drinking now with the same brand that you had had years before?

 

[Moe Maishlish]

That's just it Mikel... some of us feel that Enterprise is no worse than some of the previous incarnations of the franchise. Frankly, I watch some TOS, TNG, or DS9 episodes today and cringe at them. Yes, some have held up, some some are just, in my opinion, terrible.

You can compare things all you want, but again... it just boils down to individual taste. You might appreciate the bottle of wine from years ago (which might all fall under "good old days" syndrome... ), while others are perfectly happy with the dry red that they're sipping at the moment.

Moe.

 

[Jason Seaver]

Then, you should be proactive. Don't go on the defensive, don't whine about how the meanies are mocking the show. Simply state what you thought about the episode and don't worry about what I or anyone else says. Pick and choose which posts you wish to respond to. If you've got something to say about what was good and/or interesting about the show, just say it and let it stand. If it's convincing, or resonates enough that others wish to chime in and follow that tack, then they will.

That's what I was trying to get at with the "the detractors at least supply reasoning" post. It's easy to complain about what is said in the thread, but it's tougher to actually say something worthwhile to counter it.

 

[Kevin Hewell]

This works both ways. Coming to an episode thread and seeing that it begins with ten negative posts in a row without having actually seen the episode is really off putting to those of us who like the show. I know it has made me not post.