DVD-A: Not impressed with selection (1 Viewer)

[Ronald Epstein]

Paul,

Can you further explain this?

I am taking it that when I buy one of these
DTS titles that I be certain specifies DVD-A?

Thanks!

 

[Larry Geller]

No. You can play EITHER DVD-A OR DTS CDs in the Acura, both in 5.1. The DTS CDs were originally packaged in regular jewel boxes. These were later repackaged in Super jewel boxes, just like actual DVD-As, but they still are the exact same DTS cds as before. The only wrinkle to this is that DTS has also rereleased some of their newer, exclusive, material (like Toy Matinee) as ACTUAL DVD-As. None of this applies to the rereleases of previous quadraphonic material (like Band On The Run, or The Seventh Sojourn)--if they are on the DTS label, they are still DTS cds. Another thing to watch out for is the rerelease on other labels, of things that originally came out as DTS. For example, Marvin Gaye's Forever Yours, on DTS is a DTS CD. However, Universal has reissued the same tracks (now in chronological order, however and now including a stereo track--which all DTS cds lack) as The Marvin Gaye Collection on both DVD-A and SACD. These sound considerably better than the DTS version.

Just to recap this ramble, Acuras can play both DVD-As AND DTS CDs in 5.1. Both sound great, but the DVD-As are superior.

 

[Thomas Newton]

Years ago, DTS had something called a "DTS CD". This is where DTS put a surround sound bitstream onto a CD in place of where the CD-Audio data would go. To do this, I presume DTS had to use some form of lossy compression. Also, it was important to play back DTS CDs ONLY on receivers that had DTS enabled -- to all others, the DTS CDs looked like standard CDs full of nasty aural hash.

 

[Phil A]

Here's a link to the last thing I saw on Denon's Q&A with regard to DualDisc - http://www.highfidelityreview.com/ne...umber=18008347

It references what is here: http://www.usa.denon.com/support/faqs_ddisc.asp
on the Denon web site.

 

[Paul.S]

Yes, that is correct, Ron.

What the DTS Website identifies as a "5.1 Music Disc" is a CD with a PCM-encoded version of the same kind of lossy surround sound mix that's on your DTS DVD-Vs.

When the disc is identified as "DVD-Audio," then it contains an MLP lossless surround sound mix of I think at least 24 bit, 48k resolution. (This is in addition to perhaps a lower fidelity, conventional lossy DTS mix and a PCM stereo track which the disc may offer.)

Keep in mind though that sometimes DTS did not release the DVD-A version of a title they released on DTS CD. An example is the Sheryl Crow album you mention earlier: The Globe Sessions was released by DTS as a DTS CD. It was later released by Universal Music Group's A&M Records as a DVD-A.

Thank goodness we have HTF Music area to help us keep this craziness straight, huh?

-p

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Paul,

Just so I have my head in the right direction....

The DVD-A version is that much noticeably superior
to the standard DTS-EX CD version?

 

[Paul.S]

Ron: Well, first of all, not all DTS CDs are ES-encoded (EX is the THX appellation for the surround back channel).

But, with the caveat that aspects of the original recording engineering/sound capture can be a huge factor that would lead me to be wary of making too definitive of a statement (for instance, you're not going to get a helluva lot better sound quality out of a 24 bit/96k remaster of a recording originally done digitally at, say, 16 bit/48k), yes: in general higher resolution is going to give you better fidelity than a lossy presentation of the same program material.

-p

 

[Larry Geller]

Yes. When the title is out both ways (like the Crow, Gaucho, the Marvin Gaye, etc.) the DVD-A is much better. But, don't ignore discs that are out only as DTS (like Days Of Future Passed, Venus And Mars, etc.). They provide a just fine 5.1 experience, and many of them will NEVER see the light of day as hi-rez!

BTW, some DTS discs have the original quad mix as the 5.1, while later hi-rez releases use a new 5.1 mix, so both copies are a viable alternative. One example is The Allman Brothers Live At Fillmore East, where the DTS CD has the extremely separated quad mix from 1974, while the new SACD has a new 5.1 ambient-like mix.

 

[FeisalK]

whats confusing to me is DTS is a 1) company, 2) music label, 3) a lossy encoding format, and 4) a disc designation all at the same time.

To wit, you may be able to find an Alan Parsons Project album On Air released on DTS CD(4) by DTS Entertainment(2), encoded in 5.1 multichannel DTS format(3). IIRC, it would play on regular CD players but you would need the digital out to be connected to a DTS decoder (instead of a regular DAC) - generally a AV receiver would serve this purpose. Despite the blurb (High Definition Surround) on the disc, they are not DVD-audios.

Queen's A Night At The Opera released by DTS Entertainment(2) is a DVD-Audio disc with hi-rez DVD-Audio and also DTS 96/24(3) encoded 5.1 surround sound.

No-one's mentiond DADs yet

 

[Paul.S]

Then there's the DTS+++ that we may get on hi def DVDs . . . -p

 

[FeisalK]

which won't work on anyone's current equipment! whoopeee! I'm exaggerating of course.. it'll be backwards compatible

 

[Lewis Besze]

No one mentioned this, but in order to hear the DVD-A hi rez section or even access it's menues, you need to change the player's prioroty from "video" to "audio".This change will only need to be made once and it won't affect DVD-V playback ability at all.This is not a switch it's menu option on the player.Someone with a Pana player can guide you on this.

 

[AricB]

Lewis, not necessarily, depends on player, most DVD-A capable will auto sense and default to that track. I know JVC, Pioneer and Samsung models don't require you to do so.

 

[Lewis Besze]

Well, Marantz, Denon, Panasonic, do.Ron has a Panasonic, which is why I brought this up.

 

[LanceJ]

Personally I have never seen a dvd-audio player that didn't always default to the dvd-audio portion of a dvd-a disc. And on my Pioneer DV-656A dvd-audio player, if I was accessing the dvd-video portion of the disc for research purposes, once the disc was ejected the player reverted back to its default dvd-a playback mode, so check for this feature on your own player.

Regarding DTS-CDs: DTS Entertainment still sells them. They have quite a few titles but a lot are rather obscure or kind of odd choices (to me anyway). IMO DTS-CDs can sound very good--I own the Moody Blues' Seventh Sojourn and the quad version of DSOTM. On revealing systems you can sometimes hear some slight high frequency graininess, and relatively speaking, they have a bit less "air" and imaging quality compared to the lossless version but to me this isn't anything startling or unpleasant (and many movies use DTS for their optional soundtrack and I see few people complain about that).

FYI: there are several DTS-CDs that feature the DTS-ES format, like the Midnight Oil disc (and some dvd-audios from the same company like the Crystal Method disc). Also, some of their dvd-audio titles include the DTS96/24 format.

I got to hear the Moody DTS-CD on the Acura TL's system last year and it sounded great IMO--that huge cymbal sweep on track 3 sounded very smooth and realistic. Bass was very clean and solid. When the RL debuted I took the DSOTM disc up to the same dealer and we played it for 15 minutes. When those clocks went off they sounded like they were right in the car with us. Fun stuff!

Ronald: if you're receiver or processor doesn't include bass management for its 5.1 analog input, make sure all your satellites can handle low bass signals. Otherwise just use the disc's Dolby or DTS track (because AFAIK no Panasonic ever made includes b.m. for the hi-res signals). Many dvd-audios (and DTS-CDs) now include very low bass in the surrounds and center channels. My Medeski, Martin and Wood dvd-a has enough bass from the drum set in the right rear speaker to make its 8" woofer become blurry at just medium volume levels. Same with the center channel which sometimes has an full-blown electric bass featured there. Even the Pet Sounds dvd-a has low bass in the rear channels.

BTW: not all surround discs--whether its a DTS-CD, dvd-audio or sacd--use the center channel. Pet Sounds, The Nightfly, that Moodys disc and of course the DSOTM quad disc do not use the center.

Title selection sucks for dvd-audio IMO, to put it bluntly. Releases seem to almost have come to a complete halt. I haven't read of any solid reasons why this is so but I'll bet it is a combination of the crummy economy and lack of interest in the format (no doubt due partly to most participating label's lousy marketing efforts for dvd-a).

 

[Craig S]

Ron, I feel your pain. I bought my first 2 DVD-As back in 2001 (you were there - it was at Dave's Studio Day during the 2001 national meet); almost 4 years later, I have a grand total of 30.

For fans of 70s music, there are a few gems (most of these have been mentioned):

Eagle - "Hotel Califonia"
Queen - "Night At The Opera"
Chicago - "II" & "V"
Steely Dan - "Gaucho"
Alice Cooper - "Billion Dollar Babies", "Welcome To My Nightmare"
Emerson, Lake & Palmer - "Brain Salad Surgery"
Yes - "Fragile"
Fleetwood Mac - "Rumours"
Elton John - "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road"

All of the above were among my favorites back in high school/college in the 70s, and I'm glad to have them in 5.1.

Among newer music, the much-mentioned Porcupine Tree "In Absentia" is excellent. The two latter-day Steely Dan releases ("Two Against Nature", "Everything Must Go") are good, as are Donald Fagen's solo releases ("The Nightfly", "Kamakiriad").

But as Lance says, almost nothing has been released in well over a year. I think the last DVD-A I bought was over a year and a half ago (Mike Oldfield's "Tubular Bells 2003"), although I'm now looking for the DVD-A of Porcupine Tree's latest, "Deadwing". The format is on life support, but I continue to enjoy my little collection of discs and even if I never buy another DVD-A I don't regret buying those I have.

 

[Paul.S]

The fact that there are exceptions to these generally true statements makes me cringe and demur: the Seal and I think R.E.M. 'double disc' packages have all come out in the past year.

-p

 

[Tim Hoover]

The Panny is already factory set for DVD-Audio. The only changes that need to be made are if you actually wanted to listen to the DD tracks, in which case you'd go into the setup menu and select DVD-Video mode...

 

[AricB]

Beck's Guero came out this year. Also, NIN The Downward Spiral re-release and the new NIN album With Teeth, as Dual Discs with DVD-A tracks. not same style as listed above but all are well done.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Now here's a problem I am having...

The Eagles: Hell Freezes over

All I see are DTS 5.1 Surround discs.

No indication of DVD-A.

Is this also available as a DVD-A disc?

Thanks