Does the longer version of SOUTH PACIFIC still exist? (1 Viewer)

[edelweissflower]

Extra "Wash That Man" footage was seen in a trailer and a b/w behind the scenes featurette found on the first widescreen laserdisc release.

I have extra photos of that scene which I will download, someone obviously took photographs of the full footage before it was cut for the first publicly released print

 

[edelweissflower]

This was a great show, that missed the mark in it's film version. Is Mitzi Gaynor, bad not really, is Rossano Brazzi bad not really, John Kerr is stiff as all get out and the rest of the cast is adequate. However, it should have been a stellar film. The lousy filters give it a bizarre feel, like there is a colored fog in many scenes. The cast had little to no chemistry, there in, lies the crucial factor. Both leads were mismatched and had zero chemistry and it came across. I have never understood the reasoning for putting leads into roles that are dubbed. There was a wealth of talent available in Hollywood. Why couldn't they have used people in leads that could actually sing ? Mitzi Gaynor looks the part and so does Brazzi neither were great singers, and that is what is missing in my opinion. I like the film I don't love it, where as I love the other RH Musicals. Shirley Jones would have been great to have been cast, but she had done two RH filmed musicals. So I get why she maybe was not considered. Louis Jordan would have been a great Emile, he has the whole package, handsome, suave, debonaire, and he sings..... A huge missed opportunity. Just saying.........

Your comments are very interesting. What I do know is that all hung on the death of the original stage Emile which is my absolute favourite Ezio Pinza. Had he not died the year the film was made, he would have been asked to do the film version opposite Mary Martin. when Pina died it became very difficult to cast as i think I have written told before. They apparently tried to find someone else to star along side Mary Martin but could find not one suitable so she was then out of the running, so to speak, when they cast Brazzi R&H he then made the mistake of making a record in Rome, which he was stupid enough to send to R & H, because they said it was a terrible voice, and that he would be out! unless he agreed to sing to a dubbed voice Giorgio Tozzi, when it actually came to it he again tried to get them to let him use his own voice, but he realised they wouldn't stand for it, so he reluctantly sang to the dubbed voice
. Doris Day would have played 'Nellie' but got hurt/offended at a party. Elizabeth Taylor auditioned for 'Nellie' but through nerves lost her voice singing for R & H. Even Mitzi Gaynor upset Mary Martin when Josh Logan took Mitzi to see Mary in a stage revival of 'South Pacific'. so the a whole thing got very complicated.
For me the biggest fault of the film is that so much got cut out even before the 'Roadshow' print was even assembled, if that's the right word. The original was by all a account a more than 3 hour epic, because Logan left very little on the cutting room floor and the film originally played as per the soundtrack recording and more.
'Dites Moi' with the children alone was cut.
The First Plantation scene with Nellie and Emile after the children sing 'Dites-Moi' was edited down.
'Wash that Man' was hacked not edited'
'Loneliness of Evening' was filmed complete but the song was only heard in a short reprise
'This Nearly was mine' was cut in verse.
Joe Cable was originally seen escaping the hospital was cut
If you get a copy of the book called 'Tale of South Pacific' you get an idea of want the completed film should be, as for the colour filters they could have been removed, but as Josh logan said in interviews, 20th Century Fox 'were hysterical' to start to get the money back, so they let the film be released in what he called 'this shabby shape'
In my opinion what should have even after all these years is the film should be put back to what Josh Logan filmed before even the first 'Road' show print was assembled back to his director's cut as much as cant possibly be done and the color filters removed as well as he wanted them done, I believe a lot of the footage that has never been publicly seen does still survive.

 

[midvalleyguy]

These are two photos from the 1958 Australian program that may be of interest. The program also has a quote from Oscar Hammerstein: " If we had the whole world to choose from and were doing it over again, we couldn't have a more perfect cast"

 

[edelweissflower]

These are two photos from the 1958 Australian program that may be of interest. The program also has a quote from Oscar Hammerstein: " If we had the whole world to choose from and were doing it over again, we couldn't have a more perfect cast" View attachment 214335

yes another great picture from the cut sequence of 'I'm Gonna Wash That Man'

 

[AlanP]

Your comments are very interesting. What I do know is that all hung on the death of the original stage Emile which is my absolute favourite Ezio Pinza. Had he not died the year the film was made, he would have been asked to do the film version opposite Mary Martin. when Pina died it became very difficult to cast as i think I have written told before. They apparently tried to find someone else to star along side Mary Martin but could find not one suitable so she was then out of the running, so to speak, when they cast Brazzi R&H he then made the mistake of making a record in Rome, which he was stupid enough to send to R & H, because they said it was a terrible voice, and that he would be out! unless he agreed to sing to a dubbed voice Giorgio Tozzi, when it actually came to it he again tried to get them to let him use his own voice, but he realised they wouldn't stand for it, so he reluctantly sang to the dubbed voice
. Doris Day would have played 'Nellie' but got hurt/offended at a party. Elizabeth Taylor auditioned for 'Nellie' but through nerves lost her voice singing for R & H. Even Mitzi Gaynor upset Mary Martin when Josh Logan took Mitzi to see Mary in a stage revival of 'South Pacific'. so the a whole thing got very complicated.
For me the biggest fault of the film is that so much got cut out even before the 'Roadshow' print was even assembled, if that's the right word. The original was by all a account a more than 3 hour epic, because Logan left very little on the cutting room floor and the film originally played as per the soundtrack recording and more.
'Dites Moi' with the children alone was cut.
The First Plantation scene with Nellie and Emile after the children sing 'Dites-Moi' was edited down.
'Wash that Man' was hacked not edited'
'Loneliness of Evening' was filmed complete but the song was only heard in a short reprise
'This Nearly was mine' was cut in verse.
Joe Cable was originally seen escaping the hospital was cut
If you get a copy of the book called 'Tale of South Pacific' you get an idea of want the completed film should be, as for the colour filters they could have been removed, but as Josh logan said in interviews, 20th Century Fox 'were hysterical' to start to get the money back, so they let the film be released in what he called 'this shabby shape'
In my opinion what should have even after all these years is the film should be put back to what Josh Logan filmed before even the first 'Road' show print was assembled back to his director's cut as much as cant possibly be done and the color filters removed as well as he wanted them done, I believe a lot of the footage that has never been publicly seen does still survive.

Was anyone else considered for Emile in the film version ? Do not see why they went with Brazzi and Gaynor, neither have any chemistry ? Wonder why Yul Brynner wasn't considered ? I do not understand what Gaynor's appeal was for the role of Nellie ? I never knew Elizabeth Taylor was considered, where they planning on dubbing her ? I guess they didn't want to go with Shirley Jones again ? I would love to see the original version.

 

[edelweissflower]

Was anyone else considered for Emile in the film version ? Do not see why they went with Brazzi and Gaynor, neither have any chemistry ? Wonder why Yul Brynner wasn't considered ? I do not understand what Gaynor's appeal was for the role of Nellie ? I never knew Elizabeth Taylor was considered, where they planning on dubbing her ? I guess they didn't want to go with Shirley Jones again ? I would love to see the original version.

Brazzi I think came early on when Ezio Pinza died and they were looking for perhaps someone to co-star with Martin but that was quickly was dashed as Brazzi didn't look old enough to star opposite Martin , he was in fact older, they had tried to get someone more the age of Pinza, but failed. According to Joshua Logan, 20th Century Fox absolutely refused to do it with-out a movie 'star' that's where Gaynor and the other's come in, they flatly refused to do the film without. Mitzi Gaynor was chosen in the end by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein, Gaynor recalls going to see Rodgers who was suffering from a cold, at that time, tea was served and Rodgers asked Gaynor 'to be mother' i.e. pour the tea. as Josh Logan said, 'Mitzi was not a very well known movie star' Rodgers always disliked the film of 'South Pacific anyway, it was Hammerstein only , went on location, there is film, photographs of him on location and in the film and music studios will the cast recording the song, No Rodgers, he was in a clinic 'suffering' from 'depression' more likely ''drying out' as well after they wrote the television musical 'Cinderella' in 1956-57 after the film of 'South Pacific' he and Hammerstein started working on what became they penultimate musical 'Flower Drum Song'.

 

[edelweissflower]

I did find SOME of the missing scenes back in 1992 - all of the soundtrack seems to be there.
Greg is right - most of wash That Man righ t Oughta My hHair is cut and much of the boars tooth ceremony - but these were both cut LONG before the first rough cut of the film was put together.
I did NOT find the uncut Wash That Man.
I talked to director Joshua Logan about this film back in 1984. He very much wanted the film put back toe uncut length BUT with the original broadway continuity. THat part would be easy - the broadway continuity was used for all foreign prints. Joe Cable is flying over the islands and Buxx the pilot says "That's where the seebees play" and in the American prints we cut righ to the song "Bloody Mary"
In the foreigh prints, Buzz also says"Thats We're you're friend Emile De Beque lives" and we cut right to the first conversation of Nellie And Emile.
Remember all these running times include the Overture, Intermission Music and Exit Music - the current short version we have is 161 min- So we are only missing about ten minutes of film.
Also cut is the following
After the song Bali Hai - ther is a shot comic reprise of the song sung by Luther Billis(Ray Walston)
Toward the end of Act One,, in the short version, Emile says Nellie"Wait here. I have a surprise for you" He then brings out his two illegitimate children - Some surprise.
Make Emile look like an idiot.
In the long version, the suprise is emile putting Nellies cloak over his head and he imitate her singing "Gonna Wash That Man right ought my Hair. "
A strange cut is earlier in the film. Cable can't convince Emile to go on the mission. Cable asks his commander what he should do and the commander tells him to take some time off and get a boat. Cable says "a boat" and the music starts and we see cable heading for Bali Hai while the chorus sings a reprise of the song.
In the original version, Cable SINGS the reprise and the chorus answers him from the shore. You canhear this for yourself on a DVD. Image has a docujentary called Rodgers and Hammerstein - the Sound of Movies. This was reissued last year with some extras it did not originally have. ONe of the extras is the original trailer for south Pacific. In that trailer you can hear ( but not see) Bill Lee (who dub for John Kerr) singing the Bali Hai Reprise.
Also changed is the scene on the island where Cable meets Liat. The scene was originally longer of his being led through the jungle by Bloody Mary. It was originally twice as long.
Never put in the film was the uncut Wash That Man - I wouldlove to see it. Also shot but not used was the song Loneliness of evening sung by Emile.
All of the multichannelstereo prerecordings for the songs )including the cut ones) exist. So does all of Alfred Newmans background score. How about a two cd set of the whole damnd thing. Two years ago RCA remastered the South Pacific soundtrack for cD and made it sound worse!! bummer.

I now have three photographic negatives of from the 'Loneliness of Evening' sequence sung by Emile which i am going to use for prints the first one shows Emile gazing into the pond and seeing Nellie's face and the other two show him at the Officers Club dance where he first meets Nellie, which he mentions before he sings 'Some Enchanted Evening' on he plantation terrace at the beginning of the film in the European version of the film.

 

[edelweissflower]

Wondering if there might be any new developments?

I am a true R&H fan, and would be delighted to double dip on any of them.

Regarding the comment about the original negatives... can anyone comment further? Are they beyond hope?

DG

Me too

 

[edelweissflower]

This may be off the subject but why hasn't FLOWER DRUM SONG been released on DVD yet? Universal holds the rights.
Also in 1966, when "Sound of Music" was at its height of popularity they rereleased "King and I" at the Cinerama theater in San Diego in 70mm. The ad in the newspaper at the time said "Exclusive only US showing".

Great that it is now on Blu Ray as well as DVD

 

[edelweissflower]

No, there is no such scene fo Joe in the hospital. It is not in the shooting scripts and is not in any of the cutting continuities even for the first preveiw print.

It was in the book I have called the Tale of South Pacific Joe is seen in his Bomber Jacket covering his bare chest when he is met by Emile carrying flowers for Nellie before she sings 'Honey Bun', escaping from the hospital that scene must have been removed very early on.

 

[edelweissflower]

For me 'Wash That Man' is one of my favourite songs from the score.

 

[edelweissflower]

The book says "I'm gonna wash that man out of my hair" was filmed but Oscar Hammerstien didn't like it. So Logan reshot it another way and Oscar still didn't like it so out it went.

I read it was Richard Rodgers who was ill during the filming so wasn't on location, he never was a fan of the film of 'South Pacific' and when he saw 'I'm Gonna Wash That Man' ordered them to cut it to the bone.

 

[edelweissflower]

The lower shot is not publicity - it's a shot from brazzi doing the song Loneliness of evening, never put in the film.
the film part is gone but the recording still exists among the raw sessions for the film.

that's the photographic negative That I now have.

 

[edelweissflower]

According to several source books, the deluxe South Pacific was only mono.
It ahd exactly the same music as the regular album.

I do have a stereo copy of the deluxe British version which is full stereo.

Concerning Gonna Wash That Man right Oughta my Hair =- it would be tough to restore, as the uncut version never made it even to the preview print showings (test showings).

Gonna Wash is more than uncut on the soundtrack album. A short dance section was added only for the album and was no in the raw sessions or filmed.

Still missing from the roadshow dvd is the Bali Hai reprise sung by Joe cable, on the way tohis first time on the island. The Commentary track says it was never in the film. Don't believe it.

The short dance section on the soundtrack of 'I'm Gonna Wash That Man' plays while they are splashing around on the uncut version of the song that was cut from the film surely, a guy on youtube has restored the footage will the black and white scenes from the film of the making of South Pacific where Nellie and the nurses are seen splashing around in the pool nellie's hair full of foam. I have a photographic poster of one of the cut scenes from the original sequence shot of the song.

 

[edelweissflower]

Extra "Wash That Man" footage was seen in a trailer and a b/w behind the scenes featurette found on the first widescreen laserdisc release.

Yes that is great to see, all that footage apparently still exists, and could be put back complete into the film., to make the song follow the soundtrack version.

 

[edelweissflower]

Your comments are very interesting. What I do know is that all hung on the death of the original stage Emile which is my absolute favourite Ezio Pinza. Had he not died the year the film was made, he would have been asked to do the film version opposite Mary Martin. when Pina died it became very difficult to cast as i think I have written told before. They apparently tried to find someone else to star along side Mary Martin but could find not one suitable so she was then out of the running, so to speak, when they cast Brazzi R&H he then made the mistake of making a record in Rome, which he was stupid enough to send to R & H, because they said it was a terrible voice, and that he would be out! unless he agreed to sing to a dubbed voice Giorgio Tozzi, when it actually came to it he again tried to get them to let him use his own voice, but he realised they wouldn't stand for it, so he reluctantly sang to the dubbed voice
. Doris Day would have played 'Nellie' but got hurt/offended at a party. Elizabeth Taylor auditioned for 'Nellie' but through nerves lost her voice singing for R & H. Even Mitzi Gaynor upset Mary Martin when Josh Logan took Mitzi to see Mary in a stage revival of 'South Pacific'. so the a whole thing got very complicated.
For me the biggest fault of the film is that so much got cut out even before the 'Roadshow' print was even assembled, if that's the right word. The original was by all a account a more than 3 hour epic, because Logan left very little on the cutting room floor and the film originally played as per the soundtrack recording and more.
'Dites Moi' with the children alone was cut.
The First Plantation scene with Nellie and Emile after the children sing 'Dites-Moi' was edited down.
'Wash that Man' was hacked not edited'
'Loneliness of Evening' was filmed complete but the song was only heard in a short reprise
'This Nearly was mine' was cut in verse.
Joe Cable was originally seen escaping the hospital was cut
If you get a copy of the book called 'Tale of South Pacific' you get an idea of want the completed film should be, as for the colour filters they could have been removed, but as Josh logan said in interviews, 20th Century Fox 'were hysterical' to start to get the money back, so they let the film be released in what he called 'this shabby shape'
In my opinion what should have even after all these years is the film should be put back to what Josh Logan filmed before even the first 'Road' show print was assembled back to his director's cut as much as cant possibly be done and the color filters removed as well as he wanted them done, I believe a lot of the footage that has never been publicly seen does still survive.

 

[edelweissflower]

Your comments are very interesting. What I do know is that all hung on the death of the original stage Emile which is my absolute favourite Ezio Pinza. Had he not died the year the film was made, he would have been asked to do the film version opposite Mary Martin. when Pina died it became very difficult to cast as i think I have written told before. They apparently tried to find someone else to star along side Mary Martin but could find not one suitable so she was then out of the running, so to speak, when they cast Brazzi R&H he then made the mistake of making a record in Rome, which he was stupid enough to send to R & H, because they said it was a terrible voice, and that he would be out! unless he agreed to sing to a dubbed voice Giorgio Tozzi, when it actually came to it he again tried to get them to let him use his own voice, but he realised they wouldn't stand for it, so he reluctantly sang to the dubbed voice
. Doris Day would have played 'Nellie' but got hurt/offended at a party. Elizabeth Taylor auditioned for 'Nellie' but through nerves lost her voice singing for R & H. Even Mitzi Gaynor upset Mary Martin when Josh Logan took Mitzi to see Mary in a stage revival of 'South Pacific'. so the a whole thing got very complicated.
For me the biggest fault of the film is that so much got cut out even before the 'Roadshow' print was even assembled, if that's the right word. The original was by all a account a more than 3 hour epic, because Logan left very little on the cutting room floor and the film originally played as per the soundtrack recording and more.
'Dites Moi' with the children alone was cut.
The First Plantation scene with Nellie and Emile after the children sing 'Dites-Moi' was edited down.
'Wash that Man' was hacked not edited'
'Loneliness of Evening' was filmed complete but the song was only heard in a short reprise
'This Nearly was mine' was cut in verse.
Joe Cable was originally seen escaping the hospital was cut
If you get a copy of the book called 'Tale of South Pacific' you get an idea of want the completed film should be, as for the colour filters they could have been removed, but as Josh logan said in interviews, 20th Century Fox 'were hysterical' to start to get the money back, so they let the film be released in what he called 'this shabby shape'
In my opinion what should have even after all these years is the film should be put back to what Josh Logan filmed before even the first 'Road' show print was assembled back to his director's cut as much as cant possibly be done and the color filters removed as well as he wanted them done, I believe a lot of the footage that has never been publicly seen does still survive.

I now have three photographic negatives of 'The Loneliness of Evening' sequence which I will post asap.