denon 3802 or h/k 520? (1 Viewer)

[Todd smith]

Have listened to both and both sound good to me! I guess my ear is not that critical, so I come to you oh wise ones! Will be using 50%HT 50%music. What ya think? I think they have pretty much the same features (dont they?) so I dont know. AHHHH!

 

[Earl Simpson]

If you will die without 7 amps then get the 3802. If you don't need 7 amps get the 5es(6 amps) or 520(5 amps).

 

[Todd smith]

does the 3802 have the adjustable cross over points (40,60,80,100,) like the h/k?

How much better is ddex than dts 6.1? (h/k has dts 6.1 doesnt it?)

Do most of the ddex movies have a dts 6.1 option?

Obviously I am trying to decide betweent these two.

How big a deal is adjustable pro logic 2 as opoosed to non adjustable pl 2?

 

[Eujin]

Todd,

The HK decodes DTS-ES Discrete (6.1), but it DOES NOT have on-board amplification for that 6th channel. In order to get that channel, you'll have to add an outboard amp. I don't know if most DDEX movies have a DTS-ES option, but there are DTS-ES movies without a DDEX option. As for adjustable pro logic 2, I personally don't find that it's that big a deal (which is part of the reason why I went with a HK 320), as you get Logic7 decoding on the HK, which many HK owners prefer. Either way, with both of these receivers you can't go much wrong--especially if they sound identical to your ears. Good luck!

 

[Todd smith]

Thanks for the reply! Do you know if the 3802 has the adjustable cross over options (40,60,80,100) like the 520?

 

[Todd smith]

I have one more question for you Breck that I could not get an answer to on the h/k site for the 520 (thanks for the links by the way) What is the deal with only being able to use the 40,60 hz option on the 520 when speakers are set to large? If I set to small I only have 80,100 option? I am confused about this. My speakers have a 45hz rating and I would like to use the 60 hz cross over, but if I can only do this with my speakers set to large will they be getting a full signal that way? So does this mean the crossover aplys only to the sub when the speakers are set at large?? If you could clear this up for me I would appreciate it. I would love to use the 60 hz cross over if it will work correctly.

 

[Wayne Ernst]

~ Deceptive power rating (designed to trick mainstream buyers)

Would you put all receiver manufacturers into this category? Do you have some specific reports which indicate Denon is over-rating their power? The numbers I've looked at over at S&V seems to indicate Denon is not too overly stated. Others (read: Sony and Yamaha) have done a worse job at overstating the numbers.

 

[Wayne Ernst]

~ Looks and feels like a cheap mass produced receiver

While I was looking for recivers, the HK felt like the cheaper receiver when compared to the Denon. The buttons felt loose and cheap to me.

 

[Brian Treinen]

~ $200 more than the HK (online)

I was also considering both receivers and in my research the best I could find the 520 was $599 not including shipping. I got the 3802 for $720 shipped. That's at most $120 more for a receiver with the ability to do 6.1 / 7.1 right out of the box.

Last thing to note is the HK is made in China while the 3802 is made in Japan. I'm under the impression that the 3802 build quality is better based on that.

I can certainly understand you wanting to validate your decision to go with the 520 - which is a great receiver. I just didn't want to have to have to buy a separate 2 channel amp to get 7 powered channels otherwise I might have gone with that one too. That put the cost of the 520 at least $200 over the cost of the 3802 just to get it to the same point. The 3802 has been a great piece so far. I'm sure you'll be happy with either.

 

[Kevin Alexander]

Make no mistake Wayne. Denon is not what they once were. I think we are starting to see Denon go the way of catering more to the masses. The HK may have felt cheap to you, more quality has gone into the HK than the Denon.

~ Questionable amp quality

~ Questionable power source

~ Deceptive power rating (designed to trick mainstream buyers)

All of the aforementioned things are valid concerns w/ the quick-to-market approach that Denon has taken to their lineup the past year or more. I am not slamming Denon, but you have to admit that corners were cut somewhere to cram 7 channels of amplification into a box. HK could've done this, but they give clear reasons on why they didn't - reasons that make alot of sense. BTW, I was once a Denon and HK owner, both of which served me well. Currently I am a Yamaha owner.

 

[Kevin Alexander]

So then by your definition any receiver with 7 powered channels is designed poorly - Marantz 9200; Onkyo 898,989; B&K 307? Just because Denon is the first to come in at this price point with a 7 powered channel receiver it's a POS??

Maybe you can answer just how many amps is enough before distortion and nuances of degraded sound quality come into play? Eight channels?...9?...10? Again, there is a reason why HK didn't do this, and their explanation makes alot of sense.

 

[Brian Treinen]

Kevin,

EVERY receiver is a compromise. Cramming 5 amps in a box has to lead to "distortion and nuances of degraded sound quality" when compared to a two channel receiver and what about all those out there with six amps? IF all I was interested in is the purest sound available I would have separates - at a cost WAY higher than $720. I mean, my God all you have to do is look around here and see all the people bashing the Outlaw 950 because of supposed corners that were cut with that box compared to higher priced pre/pro's - where does it end? For now, I've got everything I could want in one box RIGHT NOW. Eventually I may decide to add a two or three channel amp for the front but that's down the road and I didn't want to wait to have 6.1 / 7.1. In my mind it's the same, in theory, as recommending someone start into the HT world with a HTB system. You get all of 5.1 immediately and can upgrade piece by piece as funds and WAF allows - and if you decide that HT is something you want to pursue. The cost of that may or may not be percieved degredation in sound quality for the period of time that you have to "endure" the lower end product. I'm willing to live with that.

 

[Kevin Alexander]

EVERY receiver is a compromise. Cramming 5 amps in a box has to lead to "distortion and nuances of degraded sound quality" when compared to a two channel receiver and what about all those out there with six amps?

Agreed, but why in the hell do we even want 6...7...8...channels of amplification in a box??? I don't think we should down HK for the approach that they've taken.

 

[Marshall Sander]

The HK decodes DTS-ES Discrete (6.1)

I thought that the HK only did DTS-ES Matrix, not Discrete. That was a main reason I am not considering the HK 520.

I am just starting to research this level of receiver. Can someone please tell me if the HK 520 has the option of 5 channel stereo or whatever you call the feature which allows music to be played through all five channels

Also, what is adjustable Pro Logic?

 

[Brian Treinen]

Kevin & Breck,
Absolutely understand where both of you are coming from - and I'm not trying to put down the HK either - it was a very close call for me between the 520 and the 3802 and truth be told I probably would have bought the Sherwood R-863 if I could have found the damn thing. As it was the 520 and 3802 were the final two I was considering. Everything both of you said was what I was saying to myself when arguing for the 520 And pretty much everything I said was the 3802 devil on my other shoulder!!
Marshall,
The 520 DOES 6.1 DTS-ES Discrete, look here - Link Removed
The 520 also does PLII which will take any stereo source and tweak it up to 5.1 channels. Adjustable just refers to how tweakable the settings for each mode of PLII are, on the Denon you can set center stage width and a couple of other things for each of the PLII "modes".

 

[Kevin Alexander]

The HK 520 does DTS 6.1 discrete. It also does 5-channel stereo in the form of "Logic 5 or 7" processing.

 

[Brian Treinen]

That's what it came down to for me too - what's the cost of an amp to run the two channels (I should have never sold my B&K ST202 - if only I'd know). That and I had no idea the 5 amps in the 520 were assignable. The last thing I wanted was to get a decent two channel amp and have it power the rear surrounds :frowning:
I never found that in any of the HK literature I looked at - too bad, that may have closed the gap some, however it would have swung back to the 3802 once my wife found out we'd need ANOTHER box on the rack!! The other biggie for me was lack of DD-EX on the 520, there are about 3 times more DVDs out there with DD-EX than DTS-ES so that was an issue. However the HK has logic 7...Oh, the humanity I can't belive I'm doing this again :b

 

[Marshall Sander]

Please tell me if I'm wrong, but after reading the specs on the Denon 3802, it does not appear that it has DD-EX.

You have to go up to the 5803 before you get DD-EX in Denon.

If the above is true, then the HK 520 and the 3802 are both equally "handicapped" for not having DD-EX, but both have DTS-EX.

 

[Brian Treinen]

Marshall,

You are "wrong". Denon supports DD-EX and decodes it. It's not specified because at the time the 3802 came out DD-EX didn't exist - so to speak. THX did have that extra rear channel meant to be spread between two rear surround speakers but they hadn't yet called it DD-EX and as such Denon (or anyone else) couldn't put that in their specs. The reason the 5803 includes it is because Denon has now licensed the ability to say they include DD-EX.

The 3802, 4802 and 5802 all do DD-EX.

 

[Eujin]

Brian is correct about the DD-EX decoding in the Denon line. I think the inclusion of DD-EX in the 3802, 4802 and 5802 is pretty illuminating of Denon's approach to the market. I found, when I was doing receiver auditions, that these 3 receivers resided in a different league than their lower-priced Denon siblings. The quality of sound offered by this Top 3 was definitely a lot better. On the other hand, I found that the HK line had a pretty consistent quality across the different price points, with available power and features the only differentiator.