Bernard Hermann's "Torn Curtain" score (1 Viewer)

[ljgranberry]

My understanding is that Mr. Herrmann completed the score for TORN CURTAIN, which Hitchcock then rejected. If this is true, any possibility the Herrmann score could one day be returned to the film in its entirety? I know a couple of scenes have had his score returned on the DVD, just curious what anyone else knows about this. Huge Herrmann fan - would love to see this happen.

 

[Lord Dalek]

I don't think he ever completed it. The Joel McNeely "Complete" cd only makes it 80% of the movie.

 

[John Maher_289910]

As much as I love Herrmann's various scores, I 'm not a fan of his TORN CURTAIN score. Not to say I really dislike it, but I don't think it works as well as John Addison's score. At least not as indicated by the scenes on the DVD.

Although, you bring up an interesting topic. Films you'd like to see re-scored. My all-time least-favorite score to a major motion picture, is Andrew Lloyd Webber's lousy score to THE ODESSA FILE. It's the film I most want to see re-scored. A really good score would take this fine film and make it great, imo.

 

[Lord Dalek]

Would be funny if somebody like Danny Elfman tried to write a Herrmann sound-a-like score for The Birds just to see how it would have sounded like with an actual soundtrack.

 

[Worth]

Off the top of my head, I'd love to see these films with better scores:

Ladyhawke
For Your Eyes Only
Never Say Never Again (thanks to Connery - the producers wanted James Horner)
Goldeneye
Crimes of Passion
Big Trouble in Little China
Titanic
Dragonslayer
Tootsie

 

[John-Weller]

Oh man, I love most of those scores Worth!

 

[bujaki]

Ladyhawke's score should be completely erased! A beautiful story marred by anachronistic background noise.

 

[Patrick H.]

While some of those Bond scores mentioned were definitely "off" the typical John Barry sound, in most cases they made their particular entries stand out a little from the norm (the merits of which can be debated). 'Never Say Never Again', though, IS really ridculously bad. Legrand was a brilliant writer, but he had no idea what the hell he was doing there.

But, seriously, 'Dragonslayer'? That score is GREAT!

Back on topic, though, another interesting thing to hear would be Henry Mancini's rejected work on Hitchcock's 'Frenzy'.

 

[Osato]

While some of those Bond scores mentioned were definitely "off" the typical John Barry sound, in most cases they made their particular entries stand out a little from the norm (the merits of which can be debated). 'Never Say Never Again', though, IS really ridculously bad. Legrand was a brilliant writer, but he had no idea what the hell he was doing there.

But, seriously, 'Dragonslayer'? That score is GREAT!

Back on topic, though, another interesting thing to hear would be Henry Mancini's rejected work on Hitchcock's 'Frenzy'.

I'd love to hear Mancini's rejected 'Frenzy' score as well.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Titanic? Are you talking James Cameron's Titanic? I love the score to Titanic!

 

[Moe Dickstein]

I have to hope he's thinking of the 50s Titanic, because Horner's score is brilliant!And Tootsie? Really? It's one of the only Grusin scores that's not awful. If you want to hear Mancini's Frenzy main title, there's a clip of it laid over the image on youtube. It's pretty interesting but I can see why they canned it. It's pre-selling the suspense where Hitch wanted to start off with "England-y" music then reveal the murder by the shore... They hired Mancini to get a Mancini score and they got Mancini trying to do Bernard Herrmann.

 

[johnmcmasters]

As reported (with apologies for errors in my retelling) in Smith's bio of Herrmann, "A Heart at Fire's Center," Hitchcock and Herrmann exchanged letters in which Hitchcock was painfully honest about what was expected of the score for "Torn Curtain." Hitch was weary of what he saw as Herrmann' repeating himself in his recent scores and requested a new sound for what he and the studio heads thought was wanted by the new generation of film goers -- not "the old pattern" as he called it in their letters and cables. Herrmann replied with a cable that said "Delighted to compose vigorous beat score for Torn Curtain always pleased to have your views regarding music for your film please send script indicating where you desire music can then begin composing..." Hitchcock sent along the script material indicating where he wanted music including a Main Title that, "should be an exciting, arresting and rhythmic piece of music whose function would be to immediately rivet the audience's attention." There was an agreement that the murder scene would not have music.

Herrmann wrote some sketches and shared them with Hitchcock who found them "too heavy" -- and apparently from then on there was no real communication about the score until the score was finished, orchestrated and was being performed on the sound stage with an orchestra. Hitchcock turned up and heard exactly what he did NOT want for the film -- Herrmann felt as though a trap door had opened up because he had done what he always did -- to serve the film, story, actors, and director to best of his ability. It was an irreconcilable, painful, episode for two men who had shared many triumphs -- and by all accounts were friends. Hitch felt that Herrmann simply had not honored what Hitch felt was best for the film. Herrmann's felt he had given Hitch what the film needed -- not necessarily what had been requested of course.

So the score was finished as far as composing and orchestration is concerned -- but not completed on the recording stage. Hitch stopped the sessions cold and sent everyone home.

 

[Kevin EK]

It's also my understanding that the Herrmann "Torn Curtain" sessions were never completed. The Blu-ray does allow you to listen to cues that were completed so you can hear the difference.

BTW Moe, there are couple of Dave Grusin scores that I do like. I very much liked his music for Heaven Can Wait and My Bodyguard. The Firm is a nice, bouncy score. And I always liked his theme for "St. Elsewhere".

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Yeah, The Firm is pretty good, as are parts of Three Days of the Condor. But Bonfire of the Vanities for one is a score that injures an already wounded picture.

 

[atfree]

Off the top of my head, I'd love to see these films with better scores:

Ladyhawke
For Your Eyes Only
Never Say Never Again (thanks to Connery - the producers wanted James Horner)
Goldeneye
Crimes of Passion
Big Trouble in Little China
Titanic
Dragonslayer
Tootsie

+1 to Never Say Never Again. I can never decide if the score sounds more like a bad 80's porn film or an episode of "Charlie's Angels". It totally takes me out of the film.

 

[ljgranberry]

As reported (with apologies for errors in my retelling) in Smith's bio of Herrmann, "A Heart at Fire's Center," Hitchcock and Herrmann exchanged letters in which Hitchcock was painfully honest about what was expected of the score for "Torn Curtain." Hitch was weary of what he saw as Herrmann' repeating himself in his recent scores and requested a new sound for what he and the studio heads thought was wanted by the new generation of film goers -- not "the old pattern" as he called it in their letters and cables. Herrmann replied with a cable that said "Delighted to compose vigorous beat score for Torn Curtain always pleased to have your views regarding music for your film please send script indicating where you desire music can then begin composing..." Hitchcock sent along the script material indicating where he wanted music including a Main Title that, "should be an exciting, arresting and rhythmic piece of music whose function would be to immediately rivet the audience's attention." There was an agreement that the murder scene would not have music.

Herrmann wrote some sketches and shared them with Hitchcock who found them "too heavy" -- and apparently from then on there was no real communication about the score until the score was finished, orchestrated and was being performed on the sound stage with an orchestra. Hitchcock turned up and heard exactly what he did NOT want for the film -- Herrmann felt as though a trap door had opened up because he had done what he always did -- to serve the film, story, actors, and director to best of his ability. It was an irreconcilable, painful, episode for two men who had shared many triumphs -- and by all accounts were friends. Hitch felt that Herrmann simply had not honored what Hitch felt was best for the film. Herrmann's felt he had given Hitch what the film needed -- not necessarily what had been requested of course.

So the score was finished as far as composing and orchestration is concerned -- but not completed on the recording stage. Hitch stopped the sessions cold and sent everyone home.

So if the score was completed, is there a chance that someone else could take the compositions and re-record them? Perhaps a Herrmann acolyte like Danny Elfman?

 

[John Maher_289910]

So if the score was completed, is there a chance that someone else could take the compositions and re-record them? Perhaps a Herrmann acolyte like Danny Elfman?

Hasn't that already been done? I'm sure I even have a recording of it. As I think I stated earlier in this thread, I'm not a fan of Herrmann's score for TORN CURTAIN. I agree with Hitchcock that it is too heavy, and it's not at all what the film needed. The film needed a tighter script, and a more fleshed out character for Julie Andrews to play. Having said that, I like the film, just as it is, with the score it has.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

Hasn't that already been done? I'm sure I even have a recording of it..

Yes, twice:http://www.amazon.com/Curtain-Elmer-Bernstein-Philharmonic-Orchestra/dp/B006P8GM8Ahttp://www.amazon.com/Alfred-Hitchcocks-Torn-Curtain-Unused/dp/B000007OAH

 

[John Maher_289910]

Yes, the Joel McNeely CD is the one I have.

 

[Paul Rossen]

Yes, the Joel McNeely CD is the one I have.

Though his recording isn't complete the Bernstein recording imo is far superior than that of McNeely's(which I find boring).