Axioms versus Paradigms

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by MikeLG, May 11, 2004.

  1. MikeLG

    MikeLG Auditioning

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    Yeah, its another one of these "which speakers are better" threads. Well, I know its entirely subjective, but I need some opinions/input.

    I'm currently torn between two sets:

    1) Paradigm Titans for fronts, ADP70s for surrounds and a CC-170 coupled with a HSU STF-2 sub. I auditioned this setup at my dealer and was impressed.

    2) Axiom Epic Master or Grand Master sets. Advantage with the Axioms is the lack of an 8.25% sales tax that I'd have to pay on the Paradigms, thus making the Axiom set cheaper. Disadvantage: I can't audition them first, so I have no way to compare them to the speakers I've been listening to locally. I have read plenty of great things about Axiom, so I'm wondering if there's anyone that has compared these to the Paradigm Titan set above.

    Also, how does the Axiom EP-175 sub sound? Is it decent, or would I be better off with a STF-2?

    I would love to get the Axioms in a medium cherry finish, because the Boston Cherry just looks too dark and the Beech appears too light. Has anyone gotten a custom finish from Axiom, and if so how do they turn out?

    Thanks everyone!

    Mike
     
  2. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    The M3Ti is better than the Titan by far, though it lacks some of the bass extension of the Titan. I would say in terms of bass, it is closer to the Atom. To my ears, the M3 actually sounds slightly better than the Mini Monitors (compared all of them in my own system). The ADP 170s would be the appropriate surrounds, but Atoms or another set ot Titans would work well.

    IMO, I'd still get the STF-2 with the Axioms.
     
  3. Kevin G.

    Kevin G. Second Unit

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    Did you check with your dealer about a discount?
    Most Paradigm dealers can move a little on te price...
    In the end, for me, it was the same question, Axiom, or Paradigm, I chose the 'dimes, (I just didn't want to go through the hassle of auditioning the Axioms, and the return if I didn't care for them.)
     
  4. MikeLG

    MikeLG Auditioning

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    No I didn't ask the dealer yet for a discount. Though I imagine if I were to buy a whole system from them, including speaker stands, they might be willing to flex a bit on pricing. How much of a discount should I be looking for on a $1200-$1500 Paradigm purchase? 10%? 15%?
     
  5. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    If you were to purchace a complete system, I would expect them to be willing to do at least 10%. More than that will depend on the dealer. I've gotten as much as 20% off a single item purchase at my dealer, but I am a repeat customer and I have spent a lot there, as well as sent them quite a bit of business.

    Note also that most Paradigm dealers also offer a trade up policy - Usually within 1yr, as long as the item is a current model, up to 100% trade in value (not always, my dealer gives 80%) towards another purchase (a more expensive model). It's worth asking about.
     
  6. Owen Bartley

    Owen Bartley Second Unit

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    Always go for the discount when buying electronics, there's almost never a good reason to pay the ticket price. I usually aim for 10 - 15% (tax here in Ontario). If you buy the whole package at once, I would go for 15% at least. Are there several Paradigm retailers near you? If there are, go and check both out, and do the usual. Go to the store you like better, tell the guy you'd rather buy from him, but he's got to beat x price. Usually works for me!
     
  7. Joey_V

    Joey_V Second Unit

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    the m22s beat the titans hands down (i think the m22s round off the epic grand master package, right?). i have the 22s - and i cannot emphasize what a great speaker it is. clear, transparent, clean, non-colored, balanced it sounds. these speakers are closer to the paradigm ref 20s or 40s. if u can afford to step up to the ref 20s/40s - then do so.
     
  8. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    The M22s are about 2x the price of Titans, so I would expect them to sound better... They will certainly be clearer than the Titans or Minis. And I would not say the M22 is really that close to the Studio 40s. Better than the Monitors yes, but not quite as good as Studios. The M3 also costs somewhat more than the Titan, slightly less than the Minis, and IMO worth the price.

    FYI forum rules state that you not list your gear in your signature.
     
  9. MikeLG

    MikeLG Auditioning

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    There's only one local dealer (that I know of) that carries Paradigm. I practically auditioned the entire Paradigm line there, including the Studio 20s. Honestly if there was any possible way I could afford a Paradigm Reference system, I would have done it by now! Even my girlfriend was wowed by the Studio 20s and almost let me buy them (with the money I don't have, hehe!).

    Based on the comments I've heard elsewhere and in this thread, the Axiom M3 speakers appear to be very competitive, if not slightly better, than the Titans. If my dealer won't bend on price, I may go Axiom. But I need to pay them a visit again and see what they can do for me.

    Thanks everyone for the comments. Keep 'em coming.
     
  10. DavidNighorn

    DavidNighorn Stunt Coordinator

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    Seriously consider the Axiom M22ti's. I spent most of today watching the clock, waiting for the moment when I could go home and listen to them some more!

    David
     
  11. MikeLG

    MikeLG Auditioning

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    David, are the M22tis that much better than the M3tis?
     
  12. DavidNighorn

    DavidNighorn Stunt Coordinator

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    I can't say that for sure because I haven't heard the 3's. From what I've read on the forum and in reviews, I'd have to say yes. All I can tell you is that I don't miss my B&W Cdm7's when I am away from home. (The m22's are at my corporate apartment.)

    David
     
  13. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    If you can swing M22s and a VP150 for the front, I would recommend them. The M22 is the M3 on steroids. It uses smaller drivers, but still pushes more air. The higher sensitivity allows it to make better use of the power you feed it with.
     
  14. JamieS

    JamieS Stunt Coordinator

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    Definitley DO NOT get the Axiom sub.
     
  15. MikeLG

    MikeLG Auditioning

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    John, so you're recommending going with the VP150 (versus the smaller and cheaper VP100) with the M22s? What's the real difference between these 2 center channels? The reason I ask is because on Axiom's site they bundle the VP100 with the M22s and QS8s in their "Epic Grand Master" package. I just want to make sure that spending the extra cash on the larger center channel is definitely worth it.

    Also, if I do put more money into the fronts and center with a VP150 and M22s, can I still get away with the smaller QS4s or are the 8s a better match for these larger speakers in the front? My home theater room is about 11' x 14', but because of the open floor plan it flows right into the kitchen on the left side.

    And Jamie, I've pretty much already decided on an HSU sub. [​IMG]
     
  16. Ed_A

    Ed_A Stunt Coordinator

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    John Garcia,
    Mike, I don't mean to change the thread topic but just a quick question for John... How do you compare the M3ti to the NHT SB-2? (straight comparison for music, no sub)
    Thanks.
     
  17. Joey_V

    Joey_V Second Unit

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    Never heard the M3s but according to Alan Lofft, the head CS guy at axiom (when i called in regards to my buying of m22s), he said that the M3s have a basshump around 110-150hz ... meaning that the M3s are colored and less transparent in comparison to the M22s. In my opinion, the M22s are the best bookshelves in the current axiom line - and the most successful as well. The m22s have more midrange clarity than either m2s or m3s, more bass than the m2s (slightly less than the m3s due to the hump), and due to cabinet size have a fuller sound perfect for larger rooms.

    try for the m22s, u certainly wont be disappointed.
     
  18. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I'm sure the VP100 will work with the M22s, but if budget allows, I'd opt for the 150 (not trying to spend your money, just giving an opinion). I feel your funds are well spent on a great front stage and sub, and acceptable rear stage. You can always upgrade the rears later.

    Between the SB-2 and the M3, I'd probably choose the SB-2 because it is a little cleaner in the lower midrange and has a much nicer cabinet, but IMO, it is pretty close between the two. The lower sensitivity (sealed design) of the SB-2 means it will want more power, but both seem to handle a lot of power well.
     
  19. Mark^Faust

    Mark^Faust Agent

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    My friend has Titans up front and likes them very much...
    Never heard an Axiom before so I cant compare

    Mark
     

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