Apple Silicon (ARM based) Macs buyers and owners thread (1 Viewer)

[Sam Posten]

Pixelmator Pro 2.0 Launches With All-New Design and Native Apple M1 Support

Popular image editor app Pixelmator Pro has released version 2.0 ahead of schedule, bringing an all-new design for macOS Big Sur and native support...

www.macrumors.com

 

[Sam Posten]

 

[Carlo_M]

Sam. Thanks for that. Clearly the M chip (and optimized native apps) is justifying Apple’s move away from Intel. The speed at which they did it kind of hinted at how confident they were of this new architecture’s performance and capabilities.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

That's a great video, Sam, and I will include another video this morning that really had me buzzing

I have one computer. A 16" i9 MBP. I use it as a laptop and plug it into my desktop.

Potentially, this new Mini will outperform my 16" MBP. So, I can permanently use it on my desk (where I do my more intense video work) and not have to constantly swap a laptop in and out.

This is so perfect except for the 16GB ram limitation. I know, I have been harping on this relentlessly.

The one question nobody can seem to answer -- and I have been asking on many forums and YouTube reviewer pages -- is whether 16GB is the new 32GB when working with an M1 device.

With all the background programs running, my Intel would choke at 16GB. However, reviews seem to point at (but don't necessarily confirm) that we should be thinking of memory capacity in new terms when it comes to these machines.

 

[Carlo_M]

@Ronald Epstein This is a good writeup which may contain some answers you're looking for:

With M1 Macs, memory just isn't what it used to be

Apple has changed the way RAM is used in a computer. And it's time to change our thinking.

www.macworld.com

But to be honest, watching that video Sam had with the guy flying around 4K video editing is all the answer I need...for native apps. And maybe for universal binaries too. Not sure what you use for video editing, but if it's not a native app you may feel it more acutely, but I've seen my fair share of Final Cut editing, and what that video shows me is nothing short of impressive. And the fact that it's the base build is honestly jaw dropping.

Unless I'm trying to render the next Pixar film, I'd have no issues going with the base Mac Mini. The only reason I don't right now is that my Mac needs are fully taken care of by my two MBPs and my desktop/gaming PC still kicks much a$$ so that would just be like me buying a tenth guitar. Hmm...that does sound appealing...the guitar.

EDIT - fixed the link, lol that was the other article about gyms I meant to send to my friend

 

[Carlo_M]

And here's ARS Technica's writeup. They do say in "the bad" section that RAM and port options are limited...but that's just a statement of fact (i.e. you can't upgrade it past 16GB like you can on "other computers"). If you look at all the benchmarks, what you see is a machine that is punching well above it's price point, and challenging still-current machines that cost more money.

Mac mini and Apple Silicon M1 review: Not so crazy after all

The M1 is amazingly fast. More importantly, it's a compatibility slam dunk.

arstechnica.com

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Carlo,

Thanks for both those articles. I read both.

I am getting the impression that 16GB may be the new 32GB. In other words, this is a totally different animal and since everything is working off the same chip, how we measure software congestion according to memory may have very well changed.

For $1k, I don't mind experimenting with this. I have 30 days to try it out. The problem is, nobody stocks the 16GB/512SSD models yet.

 

[JohnRice]

Clearly my initial impression of unified memory in general was mistaken.

Here's my speculation. Several years ago I reassessed my concept of storage, when I installed SSDs in all my Minis. I use the internal storage for OS and Apps. Nothing else. I store all my files on external drive(s) At that time it was because SSDs were expensive. They've gotten cheaper, but now Apple's moved on to NVME SSDs and they are smaller again, but blistering fast. So, I still put all non OS/App on a separate drive. Currently, on the Minis I have THIS very slick and inexpensive little dock, with a 2.5" SSD installed as my supplemental storage.

Where I'm going with this is, I speculate that possibly RAM will be split in two. Part will be unified for OS and other rapid access functions, with regular socketed RAM for management of files and less demanding things. I'm probably wrong, but it seems that it might be necessary, since I don't see unified RAM being capable of handling the demands of some users.

Then again, some people might have to give up the habit of having every app on their machine running all the time.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

John,

You are probably not off on this. This is a great rountable discussion (without the round table) and they get into the RAM situation and possible future of it. It starts at the 3:42 point and continues for a minute or two. Very interesting.

 

[Sam Posten]

Then again, some people might have to give up the habit of having every app on their machine running all the time.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/e69cb42ef75b0f9d48b03bed9a19cfb8/tenor.gif

Sorry Ron but the reasonable solution is to use these machines the way they are designed to be used and not insist on loading every app into memory at the start. There is no reasonable justification for working like that.

 

[JohnRice]

Sorry Ron but the reasonable solution is to use these machines the way they are designed to be used and not insist on loading every app into memory at the start. There is no reasonable justification for working like that.

And then there's the Dock...

 

[Ronald Epstein]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/e69cb42ef75b0f9d48b03bed9a19cfb8/tenor.gif

Sorry Ron but the reasonable solution is to use these machines the way they are designed to be used and not insist on loading every app into memory at the start. There is no reasonable justification for working like that.

It works for me, been doing it forever and I'm going to buy the computer that best works under those conditions.

 

[Carlo_M]

Let's also not forget that Apple has some of the fastest transfer speeds for their onboard SSD out there. So the "cache to HDD" penalty from RAM is not anything remotely similar to what it was in the 5400RPM spinning hard drive days. In fact I'd argue that one wouldn't notice it.

Again, that video Sam shared, the guy was editing and then encoding 4K .264 and .265 files. If it can handle those tasks with aplomb, it should be able to handle what most users have to throw at it.

Now I've never returned a computer before, but doesn't Apple have a pretty lenient return policy within 14 days? Unless you've literally got money burning a hole in your pocket and you absolutely need to spring for the higher one, why not just get the entry level one and see if it can handle what you throw at it? Either it will or it won't, and to be honest if it doesn't, another 8GB of RAM would have only hidden the problem for a short while. If you're like me, you don't want to be buying a system where 8GB of RAM makes all the difference in the world, because that means the horsepower just isn't there in the machine. But meanwhile, if the entry level machine meets, or exceeds, your needs, you know you can always install another 8GB later.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Thanks, Carlo.

Again, the impression I am getting is that you can't compare 16GB of M1 to Intel. More and more statements that are being made about these machines are coming with "we have to recalculate the way we think about memory." With everything being on a single chip, there is no handing off of information across the computer platform.

These may be called "entry-level" products but they outperform Pro level products in many aspects.

Listen, I know my methods of running my desktop is not in line with what everyone says it should be. However, I gladly pay the price for that by maxing out my computers. This is the way I enjoy using my computer. Give me credit for not buying a Mac Pro. That's truly overkilling for what I need.

Carlo, your advice is good, however, I wouldn't take the chance on only buying an 8GB version and then finding out at some point that I'm continually maxing out my available memory as I slowly add software.

I haven't decided what I am going to do yet. It's good that the configurations I want aren't in stock otherwise I'd be typing on them now.

I have so many "wants" in the fire right now including a new WiFi 6 mesh system. However, at the same time, I fully realize that a year from now there will be M1 PRO models released (not sure about the Mini) and WiFi 6E will be the new "buzzword."

 

[JohnRice]

Let's also not forget that Apple has some of the fastest transfer speeds for their onboard SSD out there.

As in, >3,000GB reads and writes over 2,800GB. That's gigaBYTES, not bits. That is freaking fast.

Even NVME drives are getting cheaper. I got a "slow" 2GB PCIe NVME drive and the new OWC TB3 bus powered enclosure. Total cost of about $265 and it gives me reads of 1,450GB and writes of nearly 1,300 GB. I use it for Photoshop, and saves are virtually instant, not to mention opening 500MB images.

 

[Carlo_M]

Honestly I was one of the loudest complainers that they priced their Mac Pros in the many thousands, bemoaning the long gone days of entry Mac Pros at under three grand.

Now with the M1 chip, and the performance of the Mac Mini...obviously it won't compare to an M-class Mac Pro...but now I'm glad I didn't spring 5K for a new Mac Pro when it seems like in a year or so I'll be able to get a machine that will fit all of my photography, video, and music creation needs at a fraction of the price.

That's just more money for that tenth guitar.

 

[Carlo_M]

Ron you misunderstood my recommendation about getting the low end. I'm saying this establishes the baseline as to whether or not the overall architecture will support your needs.

Either it will or it won't at 8GB.

If you waited until the 16GB build came out and it "seemed" to fit your needs, but in reality it was only because of that additional 8GB of RAM...well that green curtain would get pulled back relatively quickly and you'd find out that the extra 8GB of RAM was simply a band-aid that hid a gaping wound.

But I'm betting it's the latter. That because of the new SoC architecture, and the blazing fast SSD transfer speeds, that you wouldn't notice a difference at all, even with all your programs open.

The one important caveat if you do pull the trigger on an M-class purchase: be aware that non native apps will not run as well as native apps. Now I'm not sure that means they'll run poorly, but if you rely mostly on non-native apps you may rush to judgment that this machine doesn't perform up to expectations, a conclusion that shouldn't be drawn until native versions are out for testing.

 

[Citizen87645]

If the behavior of native apps on an M1 is akin to what I see when Safari opens on my 2018 Mini, the difference at least when the app launches will be stark. I'm still surprised by how instantaneous Safari opens in comparison to Chrome.

 

[Carlo_M]

Watch Apple's M1 MacBook Pro Obliterate 2020 Intel MacBook Pro in Speed Tests

Apple's first M1 Macs have defied expectations and are more powerful than anyone expected, handily beating out many other Intel Macs that Apple...

www.macrumors.com

Ron watch this video. At least the first minute. It’s your use case.

I won’t lie, that video is increasing my likelihood of purchasing one. Especially with the thermal improvement. I hate when my Mac fans spin up super loud. Which with my workload, happens often.

 

[DaveF]

In the latest Upgrade podcast, Jason Snell discusses how the M1 mini out performs his IMac Pro for 4K video editing.