Anyone still listening to LPs. I'll be doing it on the cheap this weekend! (1 Viewer)

[HankM]

I enjoy spinning my DCC Door's collection and my Classic Records Led Zeppelin releases on my Linn LP12. Vinyl don't get any better boys.

 

[greg_t]

One thing that I noticed is that I listen to CD's mainly in the car, and hence, I only know the songs by their track number. I don't even know the names of most of the songs on my newer CD's. With vinyl, I always knew the name of the songs. It's amazing the vinyl is as strong as it is what with the ability to take CD's anywhere and MP3 technology. Vinyl is just a much more intimate way of listening to music and I just don't get the same experience with CD.

 

[KeithH]

Saurav, I would be hesitant to buy a turntable used by mail. That's just me. One can't judge mechanical condition, although I would expect a Rega Planar 2 from the past year or two to be in good condition, but one never knows. For $500, I would rather buy either of the appropriate Music Hall or Rega models new. I noticed earlier tonight that www.amusicdirect.com has the Music Hall model for $450. They also sell the Rega Planar 2.
The problem I have in getting a new turntable is that I cannot place it anywhere near my NAD C 370 amp. I have no room to do so. As a result, a turntable with short, hardwired cables, which most turntables have, is out. I faced the same problem when I wanted to connect a turntable to my Sony STR-V444ES receiver in my old house. The Sony PS-LX350H turntable has detachable RCA cables, so I went with that model. I know that the audiophile way to do vinyl is to go with short cable runs, but I have no choice at present. So, it looks like I will be sticking with the Sony turntable for awhile. Ironically, I could buy a better turntable for my second system since I have room to put it right next to the NAD C 350 amp in there. However, I can't see putting a better turntable in the lesser system. If I could get a Music Hall or Rega turntable for the main system, then I would consider moving the Sony to the second system, or I would try to sell the Sony.
Thanks for the information on the Radio Shack phono pre-amp. For $25, I would consider giving it a try, but I don't want to deal with changing batteries.
I've heard good things about Bottlehead products. It sounds like your project will be fun. Hope it goes well. How involved are the Bottlehead projects? Do you have to be skilled with a soldering iron? Do they have products with varying levels of difficulty in terms of assembly?
------------------
My:
HT Pics ; Equipment List ; DVD Collection ; LD Collection
KeithH: Saving the Home Theater World Before Bedtime

 

[John Morris]

Hmmm, probably talking about the toughest audio stuff to replace may belong to my headphone amplification. My headphone is a STax which reqires a usual amp feed??? Anyone come up with an alternative in the meantime???
------------------
Take Care,
merc
----------------
Link Removed
God Bless America!!!

 

[KeithH]

Saurav, as an update, I now can place a turntable next to my NAD C 370 amp, so a better turntable with hardwired RCA cables is a consideration. I moved the sub from one side of my entertainment center to the other, which freed up space next to the amp for the turntable. The only potential problem is that the subwoofer is now closer to my SCD-777ES SACD player, which is on a bottom shelf in my entertainment center. I am concerned that the proximity of the subwoofer to the '777ES could cause disc tracking errors. I need to get a longer subwoofer cable today to check that out. In any event, if the '777ES doesn't show tracking problems, I am good to go and can consider a better turntable.
By the way, I am assuming that better turntables such as the Music Hall MMF-5 ($450) and Rega Planar 2 ($500) have hardwired cables. I actually find it interesting that many better turntables do. As you know, audiophiles love to try different cables with front-end equipment and pre-amp/power amp connections, etc., so why should one be restricted with hardwired cables?
------------------
My:
HT Pics ; Equipment List ; DVD Collection ; LD Collection
KeithH: Saving the Home Theater World Before Bedtime
[Edited last by KeithH on November 02, 2001 at 06:22 AM]

 

[PomingF]

Keith, Kimber does make after market cable for Rega's but for anything below the Planar 3 level, the cable itself will cost more than the TT and changing cable on those things aren't easy. The new MMF-7 supposingly is out to compete with the Planar 3 and come loaded with cartridge & everything. Take your time checking out dealers advertizing on Stereophile & Audiogon for there are deals to be made everywhere.
Saurav, I've had my Planar 25 for two years now and love what it does. Definitely put a cleaning machine on your budget it's a must for any descent vinyl playback system. I was using the Discwasher system on my LP's but ended up having more pops & clicks hence had to reclean ALL of them after getting the Record Doctor.
PF

 

[Philip Hamm]

Vinyl is great fun! I spin a Denon DP7F that I got for $300 about 7 years ago (has it been that long?). It's a nice enough table with an old Stanton L737 Cartridge with a new D74S stylus. Good stuff. All I can say is if I had it to do again I'd get whatever Technics is selling as a budget table. Nothing beats Technics on the low end. They know turntables. But my little Denon does OK. The hi-fi shop right around the corner from me sells Rega and the Planar 2 is incredibly tempting but I can't afford/justify it. I spent some quality time listening to it and came home happier with my little direct drive Denon than ever. My old (very old - circa 1980) Sanyo direct driver turntable is still going strong at my brother Andy's house.
A few comments:
Kevin C Brown wrote:

I had a $25 70's Pioneer PL-12D turntable with a $40 Grado Black cartridge (an excellent low-budget cartridge which I'm sure you've read about at AA) which was pretty good, and I was amazed at the improvement I got when I put the same cartridge in the the P3. I couldn't believe that the turntable could make such a difference.

The proprieter of my local high end shop "Gifted Listener" has the same philosophy. When asked for advice on vinyl he advocates putting the bulk of your money in the table, with the cartridge being the least important factor. He sells $35 Audio-Technica cartridges for his $500 Planar 2 tables.
------------------
Philip Hamm
AIM: PhilBiker

 

[Art Miller]

Just a comment on TT location and isolation. I used to have a non-suspended table (SOTA Comet) as are most of the tables under discussion here. I found that it helps a lot to isolate the table with a sandbox, or air suspension (bike inner tube sandwiched between 2 pieces of wood). This battles some of the vibrations that want to come back into the table and get to your cartridge. I currently have a table with a spring suspension (SOTA Star) that is less prone to this, but I found that placing the table onto a wall mounted stand (it fits into my cursed entertainment system and none is the wiser) goes a long way to preventing further vibration, skipping due to foot falls, etc. It also helps keep the TT stable and level. I use a linear tracking arm (Souther TQ1) that works best if level. Highly modded Moscode Super-it phono stage to a conrad johnson PV10. Cartridge is a clearaudio sigma--if anyone cares...
And to whoever seemed to imply that records were always expensive at stores-that is simply untrue. I have picked up lots of LPS at the "Princeton Record Exchange" for $1-5.00, with the majority in the $2-3 range in excellent to mint condition. Even bought new ones for this price. On the countrary, most of the crap that I see at garage sales and flea markets, is in piss-poor condition and the seller thinks it is worth much more than it is. It is unfortunate however, that new LP releases are pretty pricy ($20+), and I usually pass on them. I probably have 2000+ LPs and am still buying some. Lots of cheap good quality music!

 

[Charles Gurganus]

Kevin, I also have the Sony TA-E9000es and let me say the Creek OBH-8 phono stage makes a HUGE improvement over the noisy internal Sony stage. The one in the Sony really isn't very good IMO.
My next move will probably be to get the TA-P9000es analog bypass recently released and connect the Creek OBH-8 to that so as to bypass the TA-E9000es extra D/A conversion. However, it sounds pretty good as is and I am not trying to cut down your setup either. Just letting you know you CAN improve on the Sony internal stage pretty easily.
I use the Technics BD-22 table with a Shure V15VMR p mount.
For the poster asking about the ground. I would HOPE the phono stage you have (or are getting) would have a ground on that. The Creek does.

 

[KeithH]

This continues to be a very good discussion. Thanks everyone.
PomingF, I am going to have my Sony PS-LX350H turntable set up tonight, and it will be interesting to judge its performance. The last time I used it, I had it connected to my Sony STR-V444ES receiver (with internal phono stage) and Energy e:XL 16 bookshelf speakers. Tonight, I will connect it to the NAD PP-1/NAD C 370 combo with Totem Arro speakers. I'm definitely using a better system around the turntable now, but I am not going to expect a miracle from the Sony.
I appreciate your suggestions on turntables. In looking through Audiogon earlier today, I came across a dealer in Pittsburgh called Northern Audio & Video (the name is familiar) that is selling the Music Hall MMF-5 turntable for $450 delivered. It looks like a very nice turntable. It has a glass platter, and from the picture, appears to have a stabilizer that you place on the LP. Again, it looks very nice, especially for $450. Music Direct has the MMF-5 for $450, but I believe shipping and insurance is extra. I don't know if there are better deals to be had on the MMF-5 brand new. Anyway, it's definitely something to consider if I really get into vinyl and do find the Sony turntable to be lacking.
CORRECTION: Music Direct has the Music Hall MMF-5 turntable for $500, not $450.
------------------
My:
HT Pics ; Equipment List ; DVD Collection ; LD Collection
KeithH: Saving the Home Theater World Before Bedtime
[Edited last by KeithH on November 02, 2001 at 09:10 AM]

 

[Saurav]

Keith,
Some responses:

When asked for advice on vinyl he advocates putting the bulk of your money in the table, with the cartridge being the least important factor.

I'd heard people saying that and I thought it only applied at the very highest level of equipment, i.e. once you were past a certain quality standard. I wasn't expecting it to be true down in the $25 range too, that's what surprised me.
Art Miller, that's a great setup. I'm envious

 

[george kaplan]

george kaplan wrote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a lot of vinyl, but it's all rare Beatles stuff that I'd never actually play.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hell, it's meant to be played. If you won't play it, sell it!

Well, while it was meant to be played at one time, at this point, all of the music on, for example, Yesterday...And Today, I have on cd. So why would I play a mint copy of the Butcher cover that's worth hundreds of dollars as is. My vinyl is to collect, not play.
------------------
13-time NBA world champion Lakers: 1949, 1950, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1972, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988, 2000, 2001

 

[Rutledge]

All this talk about vinyl has me thinking about heading up into the attic.
I haven't used my turntable in 15 years.
I have a technics SL-D2 from 1980. Direct drive with a Grado F1+ cartridge.
I guess I will be hooking it up to the NAD 3020 Integrated amp and my Spica TC-50's.
I feel really old right now.

 

[Saurav]

Keith,
There's a "new in box" MMF-5 on audioweb.com for $439. I don't know if the guy's a dealer or not (i.e., warranty issues) or if it's still available, but I thought you might be interested. I don't know if you're planning on buying a new table anytime soon.
Edit: I looked at the seller's ID, and I think he is a dealer. I've seen analog-related listings by him on rec.audio.marketplace too, if I'm not mistaken.
[Edited last by Saurav on November 02, 2001 at 03:13 PM]

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I also have the problem of not having space near my rack for my turntable. I just use "extension" RCA cords on the end of the stock cords. Works "well enough"!
OK, maybe I will have to crank up my search for a suitable phono preamp to try with the TA-E9000ES. The Sony sounds "good enough", but maybe there is some improvement to be had there. (I have my heart set on a Creek OBH-8SE, just have to find one for the "right price" ...)
DAT: I got my Tascam DA-40 for ... $425 on ebay. Had about 160 hrs on it. Beautiful deck. Before I *settled* for this one, I had a Sony PCM-R300, ZA5ES, and a PCM-R500. Had the R300 for 3 years and absolutely loved it. Just wanted to move up to a 4 motor deck (the R300 is a 3 motor deck). The ZA5ES and R500 use the same 4 motor mechanism, I found out. Makes a loud "clicking" noise when switching functions on the deck, the tapes come out too hot, and no access to the error counter (unless you drill a hole in the remote to get to a secret button). The Tascam has none of these problems. Just wish it had SBM...
I do have a Sony MDS-JA333ES MD deck. Just that I prefer the length convenience of DAT (120 min vs 80 max), and with DAT, I at least can rationalize that I'm not "throwing any of the sound away" vs MD.
I do keep the vinyl, of course! Just use DAT for replaying.
Hey, how many of you have gotten rid of lps over the years, that now you wish you had kept?
My maximum was about 1200 in the mid 80's. Had dropped down to maybe 600 early '90's. I'm probably back up in the 800 range now. Check out www.GEMM.com for a really excellent place to surf for used/new/unopened lps.
Oh, yes, the Shure V-15 Type V-MR does exist. Again. Shure didn't offer it for a long time, and just recently brought it back out. Still one of the highest rated cartridges by Stereophile. Actually, I just bought a replacement stylus for mine!
Link Removed
www.amusicdirect.com
www.garage-a-records.com
I have found are all cool places to surf vinyl. Needle Doctor has the best web site, but Garage has the best prices.
------------------

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I have also found audio asylum's web site to be pretty useful.
(That's where I 1st found the "correction values" for Radio Shack SPL meters. Which actually points to a link on HTF!)
But I personally don't like their forum software.

(Hey, maybe someone could suggest to Parker or Ron to make a new entry for vinyl here? Philip? You're an "admin", right? )
------------------

 

[KeithH]

Saurav, thanks for the tip to the dealer on audioweb.com. Northern Audio & Video and Elusive Disc sell the Music Hall MMF-5 for $450, which is close enough if I were to pull the trigger. I've bought from Elusive Disc and feel good about ordering from them. I haven't decided what to do. A colleague of mine is willing to buy my Sony turntable for $150, which isn't bad considering it was $200 new. The ability to sell the Sony turntable would make me feel better about upgrading. I don't need two turntables in the house. I am going to think about it this weekend.
------------------
My:
HT Pics ; Equipment List ; DVD Collection ; LD Collection
KeithH: Saving the Home Theater World Before Bedtime

 

[PomingF]

Keith, when I said Audiogon dealers I meant those listed on it's front page link as well as many others in the classified ad's only. Your best bet is go through the last few days TT listing (anything older still around usually is not a good buy) and check out the ones that catch your eyes. Who knows some of those sellers could be dealers. That's how I found my P-1A/P-3A/Monolithic Sound combo bargain from a CA dealer who doesn't belong to the Audiogon dealer list.
AudioAdvisor would have 10% off sale for Stereophile subscribers every so often (~2x/yr) if you are interested next time I get the notice I'll give you a buzz. Toys from The Attic (tfta.com) had a demo MMF-5 on the current Stereophile ad for $399 plus some pretty good prices on Rega's you may want to check them out as well.
PF

 

[KeithH]

PomingF, thanks again for the info. I will consider all of the sources mentioned here when and if I decide to get a new turntable. I spoke to someone at Music Direct this evening about the Music Hall MMF-5 and Rega Planar 2 (they sell both), and the gentleman I talked to spoke highly of both turntables, but suggested I get the MMF-5. His feeling, and that of many others it seems, is that the MMF-5 gives better bang for the buck since it comes with a cartridge, and a very good so I'm told. The Planar 2, of course, does not come with a cartridge. So, I would have to spend more to get set up with the Planar 2.
Besides being a good value, the person at Music Direct simply said the MMF-5 is a very good turntable. That said, he suggested that if I could stretch my budget, I get the MMF-7 for $900. He said he just set one up in the store the other day and was astounded by the sound quality. Of course, the MMF-7 is twice as expensive as the MMF-5.
I just got my Sony PS-LX350H turntable set up a couple of hours ago, and I am quite pleased with the sound. I have no doubts that the MMF-5 or Planar 2 are better turntables, but the Sony sounds quite good in my set-up. As a result, I am going to stick with the Sony for now. Rather than spending $450 or so on a turntable, I could buy some LPs, CDs, SACDs, groceries ( ), etc. Also, $450 gets me the Sony TA-P9000ES multi-channel pre-amp, which has two sets of multi-channel inputs to accommodate DVD-Audio and multi-channel SACD. I could use that.
------------------
My:
HT Pics ; Equipment List ; DVD Collection ; LD Collection
KeithH: Saving the Home Theater World Before Bedtime

 

[Derek Duncan]

Does anyone know where to get needles online. I have a Sony PS-LX150H turntable, and have searched, but cannot find a needle for it. It is only 7 years old. My needle is very worn down. Listen to vinyl at least once a day.
Derek