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Robert Harris

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Oliver, please kindly allow me to correct you. The German release is merely distributed by Universal, but it is a genuine Paramount release. It is the common European pressing, carrying the logos for Germany, the UK and Ireland. I presume it is the identical disc as released in the US.

It is a dual layer UHD with a size of exactly 62,11 GB, with the feature file being around 60 GB for the running time of 166 minutes. Using a triple layer disc, which is almost standard with UHD presentations now, there would have been plenty of extra space for a more healthy bitrate and more room to breathe for the 166 minutes, even with a decent intact grain structure.

Now what we see here is the difference between mediocracy and excellence. While I sure admit that most users may be happy with the release, it simply is far from excellence. And we all know the proverbial saying that excellence is the enemy of mediocracy. ;-)

No matter how other qualities of the scan may be, if the transfer is completely deprived of authentic film grain, it leads to a major devaluation of the whole presentation.
If you were presenting this film on 4k, how would you harvest and present grain?
 

OliverK

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Oliver, please kindly allow me to correct you. The German release is merely distributed by Universal, but it is a genuine Paramount release. It is the common European pressing, carrying the logos for Germany, the UK and Ireland. I presume it is the identical disc as released in the US.

It is a dual layer UHD with a size of exactly 62,11 GB, with the feature file being around 60 GB for the running time of 166 minutes. Using a triple layer disc, which is almost standard with UHD presentations now, there would have been plenty of extra space for a more healthy bitrate and more room to breathe for the 166 minutes, even with a decent intact grain structure.

Now what we see here is the difference between mediocracy and excellence. While I sure admit that most users may be happy with the release, it simply is far from excellence. And we all know the proverbial saying that excellence is the enemy of mediocracy. ;-)

No matter how other qualities of the scan may be, if the transfer is completely deprived of authentic film grain, it leads to a major devaluation of the whole presentation.

Thanks for the correction, looks like it was wishful thinking that the reviewer lists it as a BD-100:

1716420660667.png



There seems to be some kind of curse on the Leone movies as none of them has gotten a fully convincing UHD presentation.

Thank you also for your feedback for this release. I was not happy with Liberty Valance so I am pretty sure I would not be happy with this one. For now I will not buy and consider other options.
 

OliverK

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Somebody thankfully posted a comparison between the new UHD version and the old Blu-ray.


This looks a lot worse than I had expected.
 

Robert Harris

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Somebody thankfully posted a comparison between the new UHD version and the old Blu-ray.


This looks a lot worse than I had expected.
If those are accurate, the upscaled BD version of whatever the frames are taken from appear better than the UHD SDR tone-mapped frames.

With all frames having been processed to create the files, I’m not assured of the result, and will have to take another peek (with a nod to Mr. Kimmel) and see how close they are in action on screen in FM (Forensic Mode.)

Per these images, the films also have very different extractions and handling of x/y attributes. Very different imagery. Is either correct? Neither?
 
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titch

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I saw the Kino Lorber 4K UHD of High Noon yesterday. I kept thinking of the nod between the opening scene of Once Upon A Time In The West and the three baddies hanging out at the railway station in High Noon. Three baddies. Nervous stationmaster, with stationmaster cap, telegraph machine. The water tank. The view of the empty railway track. The main bad guy is called Frank.

At the same time, I kept thinking how much better High Noon looked, compared to the 4K UHD of Once Upon A Time In The West.
 

titch

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At times, after reading some posts, I think I’m watching different discs than some of you, smh.
The filtering and encoding issues of the 4K UHD of Once Upon A Time In The West are more noticeable, when projected onto a large screen.
 

OliverK

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If those are accurate, the upscaled BD version of whatever the frames are taken from appear better than the UHD SDR tone-mapped frames.

With all frames having been processed to create the files, I’m not assured of the result, and will have to take another peek (with a nod to Mr. Kimmel) and see how close they are in action on screen in FM (Forensic Mode.)

Per these images, the films also have very different extractions and handling of x/y attributes. Very different imagery. Is either correct? Neither?

Please have a look. The colors of the UHD are more like I remember them from theatrical screenings of all Leone westerns which were more warm and not cold but I am also very sure that those film prints also looked like film and not some video production.

So the Blu-ray caps look very much like my Blu-ray and like film but the color is off. The UHD seems to have more accurate colors but looking at them you would not really know that this movie was shot on film. I am very certain that at my seating distance of a bit more than 1 screen width away from a scope screen this will not work.

I also know from other releases like the Boetticher westerns mentioned above that there is no reason that I would have to sit farther back except for the now quite often recurring theme of studios and labels snatching defeat from the jaws of victory when it comes to UHD releases.
 

Robert Harris

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Please have a look. The colors of the UHD are more like I remember them from theatrical screenings of all Leone westerns which were more warm and not cold but I am also very sure that those film prints also looked like film and not some video production.

So the Blu-ray caps look very much like my Blu-ray and like film but the color is off. The UHD seems to have more accurate colors but looking at them you would not really know that this movie was shot on film. I am very certain that at my seating distance of a bit more than 1 screen width away from a scope screen this will not work.

I also know from other releases like the Boetticher westerns mentioned above that there is no reason that I would have to sit farther back except for the now quite often recurring theme of studios and labels snatching defeat from the jaws of victory when it comes to UHD releases.
The Leone westerns and the Boetticher films & High Noon are different technologies and should be handled slightly differently for home video, as they were for printing and projection.

They should not be conflated in the discussion.
 

Robert Harris

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Which is why I would never purchase a projector system. A 77-83” OLED is good enough for me.
I would suggest that you not filter your desire (or not) to use a projection system based upon a single (or several) films.

The visceral pleasure attained from viewing a perfectly represented film in projection is something devoutly to be wished.
 

OliverK

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The Leone westerns and the Boetticher films & High Noon are different technologies and should be handled slightly differently for home video, as they were for printing and projection.

They should not be conflated in the discussion.

I mentioned the Boetticher movies simply as they did not make me feel like I should move further away in order to not notice whatever filtering had gone on.
 

Peter Apruzzese

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Somebody thankfully posted a comparison between the new UHD version and the old Blu-ray.


This looks a lot worse than I had expected.
Which Blu-ray is in this comparison? The original release or the new one that's included with the UHD?
 

OliverK

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Have you watched this 4K/UHD?

No, only film prints and the old Blu-ray.

Currently waiting for information about an Italian release as I might get that one if it is from a different encode and with English sound.
As I am from Europe it should also be less costly than buying the US release.
 

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