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Dennis Gallagher

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Have you seen both?

Do they look alike?

If not, and if there are differences, what are those differences?
Or have someone else restore it at a lower cost.

"Jury was ultimately done by UCLA utilizing 4K scans from the original 35mm camera negatives. The restoration budget well exceeded $150k.

Diamond Wizard was done by 3DFA from 2K scans of very problematic left/right 35mm fine grains. Our restoration budget was $12k."
One might hope there'd be a "sweet spot" between the old school preservationists with their (perceived) necessary big budgets and the "kickstarter boys" with their miniscule budgets working on home workstations. (I thought I posted this somewhere here before, but it seems that the combined effort of the Warner Archive and Dave Strohmaier and company on "The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm" was a good example of this kind of effort - but perhaps a most unique situation and very much a labor of love.) Side note: I've been following the comments about "I, the Jury" on both this forum and the "other one" with great interest and find it most disconcerting that there's such dissension within the archival/preservation community and very much a lack of clarity on the timeline of this film's 3D Blu-Ray release. I've always been very much in awe of everyone involved in film preservation and find it very sad that there seems to be a certain amount of bad blood here for reasons we'll probably never understand. (Just my two cents. I'm very much NOT an expert but I've donated money religiously to the National Film Preservation Foundation and The Film Foundation since the mid 90s - ...and once again, if I'd known these careers existed "back in the day" I'd hopefully be involved in the field somehow.) FWIW - I'm waiting for both "I, the Jury" and "The Diamond Wizard" to arrive shortly and am looking forward to watching both of them.
 

Robert Harris

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One might hope there'd be a "sweet spot" between the old school preservationists with their (perceived) necessary big budgets and the "kickstarter boys" with their miniscule budgets working on home workstations. (I thought I posted this somewhere here before, but it seems that the combined effort of the Warner Archive and Dave Strohmaier and company on "The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm" was a good example of this kind of effort - but perhaps a most unique situation and very much a labor of love.) Side note: I've been following the comments about "I, the Jury" on both this forum and the "other one" with great interest and find it most disconcerting that there's such dissension within the archival/preservation community and very much a lack of clarity on the timeline of this film's 3D Blu-Ray release. I've always been very much in awe of everyone involved in film preservation and find it very sad that there seems to be a certain amount of bad blood here for reasons we'll probably never understand. (Just my two cents. I'm very much NOT an expert but I've donated money religiously to the National Film Preservation Foundation and The Film Foundation since the mid 90s - ...and once again, if I'd known these careers existed "back in the day" I'd hopefully be involved in the field somehow.) FWIW - I'm waiting for both "I, the Jury" and "The Diamond Wizard" to arrive shortly and am looking forward to watching both of them.
There is no “bad blood” from these quarters. I believe that there’s a place for all groups and individuals that you call the “kickstarter boys.” This is not a single group or individual, but what they have in common is that it allows them to concurrently fund their passion, give them income, and concurrently provide a final project that pleases fans.

There are no “old school preservationists“ of which I’m aware. Everyone (at least those with whom I work) transitioned from the purely analogue world to the mix of analogue/digital/analogue about 20 years ago. I was in that mix around 1995-6.

There is a chasm however, between owned IP vs PD or films owned by smaller entities, even if the PD property is studio or otherwise owned.

This begins with full access to all elements held both by the IP owner as well as FIAF-related organizations, a proper budget allowing for (beyond basic needs) top quality 4k scans, all data transport, all digital work toward “pristine,” the ability to deal properly with Alien Layer Technology (where needed), color correction, and creation of all files necessary for digital distribution as well as records back to film as a prime long-term asset.

The general overriding rule is that no prime element is ever scanned at less than 4k.

This also relates to removing a prime element from a vault, and scanning ONLY toward the creation of all of these needs.

A major disrupter here is the concept of “restoring” for Blu-ray or streaming as a main purpose, as this does not fall into the category of Asset Protection. It’s simply using an element or elements to attend to a singular desire - and there is a place for that.

There are costs attached to every line of these budgets - I created one last week for a project, and the numbers for all tech work, and associated fees and expenses were almost equal. This is for a passion project that necessitates being on site at the post facility.

For PD or films owned by small closely held entities, and for the purpose of creating data files for specific non-archival needs, the “kickstarter boys,” as you call the concept - and there are numerous kickstarter entities working toward creating useful digital files toward home theater as well as DCP needs - can do a commendable job that fits the specific purpose, and I applaud all these groups and individuals for their abilities and passion.

We live in very different worlds, and there is a need and opportunity for both.

While I’m aware of enough of the background of the I, The Jury situation, I’ll not get into it in public as there is neither need nor purpose, but the most important factor is that the final product was most satisfactory to both the IP owner as well as fans.

A final point. Brothers Grimm was NOT an inexpensive proposition. It was fully funded by the two owners, with work provided by vetted outside pros as a very special passion project, and does not fit into any kickstarter funded modus operandi of which I’m aware.

Two very different concepts with differing goals and budgets.
 
Last edited:

RobertMG

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There is no “bad blood” from these quarters. I believe that there’s a place for all groups and individuals that you call the “kickstarter boys.” This is not a single group or individual, but what they have in common is that it allows them to concurrently fund their passion, give them income, and concurrently provide a final project that pleases fans.

There are no “old school preservationists“ of which I’m aware. Everyone (at least those with whom I work) transitioned from the purely analogue world to the mix of analogue/digital/analogue about 20 years ago. I was in that mix around 1995-6.

There is a chasm however, between owned IP vs PD or films owned by smaller entities, even if the PD property is studio or otherwise owned.

This begins with full access to all elements held both by the IP owner as well as FIAF-related organizations, a proper budget allowing for (beyond basic needs) top quality 4k scans, all data transport, all digital work toward “pristine,” the ability to deal properly with Alien Layer Technology (where needed), color correction, and creation of all files necessary for digital distribution as well as records back to film as a prime long-term asset.

The general overriding rule is that no prime element is ever scanned at less than 4k.

This also relates to removing a prime element from a vault, and scanning ONLY toward the creation of all of these needs.

A major disrupter here is the concept of “restoring” for Blu-ray or streaming as a main purpose, as this does not fall into the category of Asset Protection. It’s simply using an element or elements to attend to a singular desire - and there is a place for that.

There are costs attached to every line of these budgets - I created one last week for a project, and the numbers for all tech work, and associated fees and expenses were almost equal. This is for a passion project that necessitates being on site at the post facility.

For PD or films owned by small closely held entities, and for the purpose of creating data files for specific non-archival needs, the “kickstarter boys,” as you call the concept - and there are numerous kickstarter entities working toward creating useful digital files toward home theater as well as DCP needs - can do a commendable job that fits the specific purpose, and I applaud all these groups and individuals for their abilities and passion.

We live in very different worlds, and there is a need and opportunity for both.

While I’m aware of enough of the background of the I, The Jury situation, I’ll not get into it in public as there is neither need nor purpose, but the most important factor is that the final product was most satisfactory to both the IP owner as well as fans.

A final point. Brothers Grimm was NOT an inexpensive proposition. It was fully funded by the two owners, with work provided by vetted outside pros as a very special passion project, and does not fit into any kickstarter funded modus operandi of which I’m aware.

Two very different concepts with differing goals and budgets.
150K aint hay as they say --- meaning thank heavens for firms like classicflix and all the others willing to save these films!
 

RobertMG

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Anyone know where the 150 number came from?
"Jury was ultimately done by UCLA utilizing 4K scans from the original 35mm camera negatives. The restoration budget well exceeded $150k.

Diamond Wizard was done by 3DFA from 2K scans of very problematic left/right 35mm fine grains. Our restoration budget was $12k."
 

Robert Harris

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"Jury was ultimately done by UCLA utilizing 4K scans from the original 35mm camera negatives. The restoration budget well exceeded $150k.

Diamond Wizard was done by 3DFA from 2K scans of very problematic left/right 35mm fine grains. Our restoration budget was $12k."
All well and good.

Where did those words come from? Origination? Who noted a budget?
 

RobertMG

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All well and good.

Where did those words come from? Origination? Who noted a budget?
Someone posted it a few posts but it is missing the info when u expand the post I am searching to find where it came from Seems to have been removed but it was supposed to be here

Golden Age 3-D Features - Page 215 - Blu-ray Forum

Oct 27, 2022 · The restoration budget well exceeded $150k. Diamond Wizard was done by 3DFA from 2K scans of very problematic left/right 35mm fine grains. Our restoration budget was …
 

Robert Harris

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Someone posted it a few posts but it is missing the info when u expand the post I am searching to find where it came from Seems to have been removed but it was supposed to be here

Golden Age 3-D Features - Page 215 - Blu-ray Forum

Oct 27, 2022 · The restoration budget well exceeded $150k. Diamond Wizard was done by 3DFA from 2K scans of very problematic left/right 35mm fine grains. Our restoration budget was …
But who said it? I don’t know if it’s a real number.
 

Ronald Epstein

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This forum is not to be used as a battlefield for disagreements concerning personal opinions on 3D restoration.

Furthermore, any disagreements that occur outside of HTF including postings on social media platforms will not be discussed on HTF.

I have already removed a few posts and more removals are being considered.
 

Keith Cobby

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Received mine today and it is as good as everyone says. I have watched the 4k disc twice (second time with the excellent Max Allan Collins commentary), and sampled the 3-D. It's such an unexpected pleasure to have this film in such great condition, my thanks to all concerned.
 

bobclampett

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I have the UK 3D release. Inferno is hands down the best 3D movie I own. Good story, terrific location work, and Robert Ryan never disappoints. Outside of the classic 1950's 3D movies, the 3D animated movies from Illumination (Universal) and others are great fun. The problem with 3D not having greater popularity is not for a lack of entertaining 3D movies, it was the hardware. LCD TV's, the most popular display technology delivered exceedingly poor 3D due to ghosting issues and display size. Even some expensive projectors from Sony, JVC, and Epson struggled with 3D. DLP projectors have always nailed 3D due to the single DMD (Digital Micromirror Device) configuration used in consumer DLP projectors.
 

cda1143

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Received mine today and it is as good as everyone says. I have watched the 4k disc twice (second time with the excellent Max Allan Collins commentary), and sampled the 3-D. It's such an unexpected pleasure to have this film in such great condition, my thanks to all concerned.
Could not agree more, nor could I agree more with RAH's sentiments in the first post. I'm far from a 3-D die-hard, and this is hardly the greatest noir ever filmed, (no oscars for the leads here) but for any film lover, this is a total delight! I'm with RAH - this is perhaps the finest and the best use of 3D ever. John Alton is an absolute genius! Combined with the genius of Franz Waxman, and some superb character roles, this is a joy for any classic film lover. Both the video and the audio have been superbly restored. Huge thanks to all those involved in this release!
 

sbjork

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I watched mine a couple of days ago, and it's definitely one of the best uses of 3D from any of the "first wave" films. I thought that it was dash clever of Essex to use the flat 2D Christmas cards as interstitials, because every time that it dissolved from one of those into the 3D scene that followed, it made the depth seem even more dramatic in comparison.
 

cda1143

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I watched mine a couple of days ago, and it's definitely one of the best uses of 3D from any of the "first wave" films. I thought that it was dash clever of Essex to use the flat 2D Christmas cards as interstitials, because every time that it dissolved from one of those into the 3D scene that followed, it made the depth seem even more dramatic in comparison.
Good point. Would make a great double bill with Lady on the Lake.
 

aPhil

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I purchased “I, The Jury” as a blind buy, and seeing this excellent restoration in 3D was a visual treat.

I was hoping that I would find the criticism of Biff Elliot’s performance to be excessive, but I’m afraid I agree with just about every negative thing I had read about his performance. He (or was it the screenplay) kept me lost as to everything except that he was trying to solve a murder (which we knew in the first few minutes).

But it is an excellent disc. My only recommendation would be for every 3D release to also include an Anaglyph version simply to interest those who are not 3D equipped.

Now I look forward to purchasing Classic Flix’s upcoming Blu-ray of “The Human Monster."
 

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