A Few Words About A few words about...™ Daddy Long Legs -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Bob Cashill]

There's an excellent new stage version of this material that's now touring after a successful Off Broadway run. A simple two-hander, lovely music, no dancing. Recommended.

 

[PMF]

[...] We're ahead with multi-channel enabled hardware, but we are badly let down when it comes to software. Unless the 4.0 audio is lost or damaged, there is simply no excuse for it not to be on the disc.

Are these flaws committed by Kino Lorber due to finances, laziness or an all-out ignorance of a films technical history?

 

[B-ROLL]

Are these flaws committed by Kino Lorber due to finances, laziness or an all-out ignorance of a films technical history?

They take the transfers they get ...

 

[PMF]

They take the transfers they get ...

All right, then, answer me this...
Are those on the receiving end at all aware of the technical stats of what a transfer should actually be?
And if so, then why not send it back to the sender?

 

[B-ROLL]

All right, then, answer me this...
Are those on the receiving end at all aware of the technical stats of what a transfer should actually be?
And if so, then why not send it back to the sender?

TT has indicated they have done so ...

 

[PMF]

TT has indicated they have done so ...

Then let us hope that Kino Lorber will follow Twilight Time's example in the very nearest of futures.
Meanwhile, here's to TT and all others for providing the higher standard.

 

[Stephen PI]

Are these flaws committed by Kino Lorber due to finances, laziness or an all-out ignorance of a films technical history?

Kino Lorber have no part in that aspect you mention.

Before digital technology made it possible to allow multi-channel audio in the homes, 2-channel was the limit. In the '80's and '90's Beta, VHS and Laserdisc all could only contain 2-channel sound. Consequently, all theatrical stereo soundtracks that were multi-track, mostly 4 and 6-track, had to be mixed to 2-track for home video. All the standard definition masters contained 2-track mixes. In the late '90's when Dolby and DTS created the technology to enable discrete multi-track on home video, the studios slowly started to re-master the stereo soundtracks in multi-track (standard format 5.1) which importantly retained the LCR discrete front-stage channels.

The problem that has persisted to this day is that 'most' of the HD masters of films from the pre-Dolby era (1977?) ranging back to the early fifties, contain 2-track mixes by default. It is, as a result, that period in home video history, which is responsible for the position we are now in. Studios, largely due to lack of knowledge (I would consider laziness too harsh) and in certain cases financially with certain titles, go to the trouble and, or expense of pulling the original multi-track stereo element, re-transferring at an audio facility and laying the created audio file back to the HD master, or alternatively, stored in inventory.

It is not Kino's fault that they lack the knowledge of film history to know what titles should be 4.0 or 5.1. They, including all the other companies that license titles from studios, think that theatrically, 2-track was the standard sound format, which apart from the Dolby 2-track matrix, is inaccurate. It is up to the studio to make sure that they have employees that have sufficient knowledge to know what is the correct audio format and to ensure their masters are up to date. At the moment the ignorance of the releasing company and the studios' reluctance to do this results in us, the consumer to suffer. We pay big dollars for these releases and we expect the best picture and sound whether or not it is noticed.

Not all titles are victim to this issue. However there are titles that are released incorrectly. 'Master of the World" from Shout Factory, is a typical case of lack of knowledge and the studios not going the extra mile to see that they get the correct audio format.

 

[Stephen PI]

TT has indicated they have done so ...

I agree and I praise them for it.

 

[Virgoan]

Wow! I've seen all 3 versions of this story on the big screen. I'm pretty certain that I saw the Pickford in 35mm; the Gaynor I saw in 16mm; the Astaire I saw for the first time during its original run. All 3 are quite charming; none offensive.

Actually, there was a Shirley Temple take on the story in the film "Curly Top".

 

[B-ROLL]

I agree and I praise them for it.

Criterion has the ability to do "their own" scans if necessary.
Their relationship with Janus also helps in this matter as many of the "classic" films not released by the studios I saw in "film study" in high school were 16mm prints from Janus

 

[bujaki]

Actually, there was a Shirley Temple take on the story in the film "Curly Top".

You mean the muppet Temple marrying an older man? Now THAT is offensive! Anyway, I'm with Graham Greene: I've always found wee Temple and her relationships with older men a bit off putting, reminiscent of Nabokov. However, I like her as a teen.

 

[Robin9]

You mean the muppet Temple marrying an older man? Now THAT is offensive! Anyway, I'm with Graham Greene: I've always found wee Temple and her relationships with older men a bit off putting, reminiscent of Nabokov. However, I like her as a teen.

I once saw a truly objectionable photo of Shirley Temple sitting on Edgar J. Hoover's lap. Obscene, to my sensibilties, just obscene.

 

[Virgoan]

You mean the muppet Temple marrying an older man? Now THAT is offensive! Anyway, I'm with Graham Greene: I've always found wee Temple and her relationships with older men a bit off putting, reminiscent of Nabokov. However, I like her as a teen.

Nevertheless, "Curly Top" was based upon "Daddy Long Legs".

 

[bujaki]

Nevertheless, "Curly Top" was based upon "Daddy Long Legs".

And I've seen that version as well. That makes 4. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Keith Cobby]

Really looking forward to this blu-ray and interested in how it compares with the Region B releases (I have the French). Happy to double-dip for one of my favourite musicals.

May be wrong but it looks to me like the same transfer. Had to get this for the commentary and different extras from the French release. Thanks Kino.

This is in my top 3 Fred Astaire films and, slightly disagreeing with RAH, I think Leslie Caron looks quite wonderful here.

 

[rdimucci]

The problem that has persisted to this day is that 'most' of the HD masters of films from the pre-Dolby era (1977?) ranging back to the early fifties, contain 2-track mixes by default.

So how, exactly, did a film that had a 4.0 audio mix on DVD suddenly "default" to a 2.0 mix when transferred to HD?

 

[Jimbo64]

It was the same story with Compulsion, I swear I had to ask at least a dozen times in 3 different threads if the 2.0 sound was stereo matrix or mono. That also had 4.0 discrete on the DVD and a downmix on the blu.... It makes no sense to me

 

[Stephen PI]

So how, exactly, did a film that had a 4.0 audio mix on DVD suddenly "default" to a 2.0 mix when transferred to HD?

The only explanation I have for this is that for the DVD somebody made an effort and accessed the 4.0 from a different inventory just for that release. The 2.0 was most likely already on the master used for the dvd and for the blu ray that 'default' 2.0 track was used instead of the route taken for the dvd.
The 2.0 mixes were probably done years ago, due to the limitation of the technology at the time, and are still used for convenience when it is of the opinion in many cases that the difference between a discrete and a mixed-down track is not enough of an improvement to go to the time and expense of retrieving the original and transferring it.

 

[benbess]

Watching this now. Nice picture and sound quality. Very interesting audio commentary.

Wonderful production design....

Art Direction by
John DeCuir ... (as John De Cuir)
Lyle R. Wheeler ... (as Lyle Wheeler)