A Few Words About A few words about...™ It's a Wonderful Life -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

Oz is one of the most beautiful Blu Rays ever made. But that doesn't take away from the fact. Again, give credit where due....Kudos to the studio for that. But how sad that a potentially permanent alteration was made because of an oversight. And how even sadder that the studio will take credit for the success but will not acknowledge the consumer when something goes wrong (my emails have been ignored.) And finally, how shocking that it has happened to some of the most prestigious titles in film history.

 

[Robert Harris]

Not shocking at all from my perspective. Someone who may not have known what they were approving... approved.

And what do we end up with Donna Reed and the Scarecrow with magnetic grain fleeing in all directions.

What we do have is the excised jitterbug sequence which appeared just after the angel arrives on the bridge.

Originally Posted by Eric Scott Richard /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Oz is one of the most beautiful Blu Rays ever made. But that doesn't take away from the fact. Again, give credit where due....Kudos to the studio for that. But how sad that a potentially permanent alteration was made because of an oversight. And how even sadder that the studio will take credit for the success but will not acknowledge the consumer when something goes wrong (my emails have been ignored.) And finally, how shocking that it has happened to some of the most prestigious titles in film history.

 

Originally Posted by Robert Harris
What we do have is the excised jitterbug sequence which appeared just after the angel arrives on the bridge.

At least we don't go home empty handed.

 

RAH, LOL. I love it! Maybe some elusive day, people who know what they are doing will approve only what they should be approving. And Clarence will tap his heels together three times and get his wings.

 

[Robert Harris]

We can only wish. Now you're in sync.
To be serious a moment, I find a huge difference between audio professionals and archivists making what I consider to be an honest error in judgment when (whilst) attempting to make something correct, and 187,200 botched frames of It's a Wonderful Life.

Originally Posted by Eric Scott Richard /img/forum/go_quote.gif
RAH, LOL. I love it! Maybe some elusive day, people who know what they are doing will approve only what they should be approving. And Clarence will tap his heels together three times and get his wings.

 

[Brian Husar]

RAH, I just read Bill Hunt's take on this on Digital Bits, and you and him are normally in agreement and know what your talking about, but he loved the disc. I normally pay attention to both you and him when it comes to buying the discs. I find it intreasting that the bothe of you have a diffren't take. I still will not buy it, and I won'y but it even more so because there are 2 diffrent opinions. Don't know if you had a chance to read his yet in Digital Bits.

 

I agree. The technicians who were working on Oz obviously gave it an honest effort and I still applaud them (although I would cry with joy if they would correct the few minor issues.) Botching an entire movie is different.

 

[Robert Harris]

I have, and we have not yet had a chance to discuss it. To make absolutely certain of what I'm seeing I've now viewed on three different systems, all with the same negative results.
The disc is highly flawed and should be recalled and replaced. As I've noted in other areas, the disc is pretty, clean and has good contrast, which may lead many people to approve of it, but the reality is that it has a highly flawed and fully digital image. It can and should look like film. The studio should be embarrassed even to have this in the marketplace. While this could be a matter of executive disinterest, I would still prefer to eventually find that it was caused by a number of internal safeguards all failing concurrently. There are some wonderful technical people at Paramount and they cannot be happy with this result.
From my perception the errors will be found with the selection of vendor and their inability to perform the work correctly and professionally.
RAH

Originally Posted by Brian Husar /img/forum/go_quote.gif
RAH, I just read Bill Hunt's take on this on Digital Bits, and you and him are normally in agreement and know what your talking about, but he loved the disc. I normally pay attention to both you and him when it comes to buying the discs. I find it intreasting that the bothe of you have a diffren't take. I still will not buy it, and I won'y but it even more so because there are 2 diffrent opinions. Don't know if you had a chance to read his yet in Digital Bits.

 

[Josh Dial]

I think what I found most troubling with The Digital Bits' review of this disc is that the video scored *the same* as the video for The Clone Wars: Season One, and

Is it possible for there to be two different transfers floating around? (I'm being serious here, since Bill Hunt is a great guy, and his reviews are generally spot-on)

 

[Yorkshire]

At the risk of getting my backside kicked around...
Is this not a question of whether one's glass is half empty or half full?
The Blu-ray Disc is, on the one hand, substantially better than the DVD. But on the other hand it's not as good as it could have been.
If someone loves the film, wants it in the best version available, and doesn't feel like the number of $s (or in my case £s) asked is too much, then surely 'better' is...well, better, even if it's not the best of all possible worlds.
If you're a bit skint, then fair enough.
But if money isn't an issue, why would anyone sit at home and watch the DVD when they know that it's not as good as the Blu-ray Disc - which, irrespective of any deficiencies, it most certainly is. Isn't that almost a dictionary definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face?
How good it looks compared with how good it could look is a question we ask, and a reason we read RAH's excellent reviews.
Whether any improvement is worth it or not is not a matter for anyone else but ourselves and our wallets. I may receive comments saying I'm settling for second best, but logically aren't all those saying they'll stick with the DVD settling for third best?
Okay, start the kicking...
Steve W

 

[Cees Alons]

Steve,

Whether any improvement is worth it or not is not a matter for anyone else but ourselves and our wallets. I may receive comments saying I'm settling for second best, but logically aren't all those saying they'll stick with the DVD settling for third best?
Okay, start the kicking...
Steve W

No kicking. /img/vbsmilies/htf/smile.gif
If someone chose to buy the SDVD new instead and at roughly the same price, what you sketched might be true. But most of us already own the DVD, so the new release must be bought on top of that.
Anyone is free to decide to purchase (and enjoy) this new BD - or not. But most of us like to know the quality of the product we're purchasing beforehand. And then decide if it's worth the price asked.
And we're a bit disappointed when we learn that the quality is not what could be expected as standard. And also, we may be hoping that it won't happen too often again.
Or at all.
Cees

 

[Yorkshire]

 

[Steve Christou]

The big question Cees is would most of us have found anything wrong with the PQ of Capra's classic if we hadn't read RAH's review? And would it be wrong to admit to enjoying the blu-ray knowing there are deficiencies in the presentation? /img/vbsmilies/htf/smiley_wink.gif
I've had a look at some of the online reviews of the blu-ray and was surprised to discover many are calling it a "stunning transfer", "better than any BW transfer I've ever seen", "a stunning blu-ray presentation", the word "stunning" is used often. What the hell were they watching? Makes me even more curious to check this blu-ray out myself. I have a 42" Toshiba LCD.

 

[Robert Harris]

Cees,

Beautifully spoken.

Let's take it one small step further when it comes to expectations.

How many reading this thread would expect anything less than perfect, based upon extant film elements, from say Columbia (Sony), which has proven itself again and again in the ability to create a continuously superior product?

Or Warner Bros? What would the reaction be if Clark Gable's head in Gone with the Wind, while moving across a neutral background had a magnetic-like force field around it? Or Dorothy going up the yellow brick road? Or any of the other Warner classics?

Would I hesitate one moment before pre-ordering a Columbia disc?

No. Because I know that the quality will be intact, and that those who have created the discs take pride in their creation and stand behind them. Personally!

There is no longer a rationale or excuse for any Blu-ray disc that doesn't look like film.

When one is paying full price, second best doesn't cut it.

Whether using Cees analogy of moving into one's new house or my earlier concept of buying a car...

My point is that there is something monumentally wrong with driving a block away from a dealership and having one's brakes fail. No one would stand for this. And there is no difference between water leaks in a home, failed brakes, or an amateurishly produced Blu-ray disc coming from an entity that most would presume to still be one of the great studios.

And yet there are many out there who are willing to accept a second rate product simply because it may look better than what they had. The reality is that it doesn't. The old SDVD is a closer match to film to the new Blu-ray, as problems may remain hidden.

I'll repeat myself.

Blu-ray is not about quality. Blu-ray is merely a bucket that holds data that can have quality. For Blu-ray to succeed in the marketplace there must be an assumption of quality on behalf of the consuming public. History has taught us that products that do not live up to their perceived quality force an end to production, and on a larger scale companies out of business.

There is a reason why one doesn't see thousands of old Fiats on the road, and conversely why one cannot travel a block in traffic without seeing a Toyota, VW, Ford truck or Honda.

It's the end of 2009. Other studios have proven both their concern for the quality of what they release to the public and their ability to create superior products. They respect the consumer, while Paramount Home Video is building the Blu-ray equivalent of a old Fiat.

RAH

Originally Posted by Cees Alons /img/forum/go_quote.gif">

Steve,

This is not about a second, or third, or next best.

It's about a rotten job, done without either the necessary skills or the necessary interest, for which they ask you a full price. A cash-in for the Holidays.

This is about your new home, where you handed over the agreed price to the contractor - only to find out later that there are leaks all through the place, the foundation is starting to do funny things, and some of the supposed wood is really plastic. Not to mention the ominous creaking during the night.

But hey, it's better than your previous apartment, isn't it? And why only settle for the best? Isn't second best acceptable anymore?
No kicking.

 

[Cees Alons]

Originally Posted by Yorkshire /forum/thread/294790/a-few-words-about-it-s-a-wonderful-life-in-blu-ray/90#post_3627701
This is a little different, because there is no other, good apartment available.
My current one is a death trap. This one has a leaky roof. I either stay in this awful apartment, move to the better one (which admittedly shouldn't have a leaky roof), or make myself homeless.

If your current situaton is that bad, you certainly have a right to take whatever you can find and which is reasonable enough to you! /img/vbsmilies/htf/smile.gif
(But that contractor still stinks.)

Originally Posted by Steve Christou /forum/thread/294790/a-few-words-about-it-s-a-wonderful-life-in-blu-ray/90#post_3627702
The big question Cees is would most of us have found anything wrong with the PQ of Capra's classic if we hadn't read RAH's review? And would it be wrong to admit to enjoying the blu-ray knowing there are deficiencies in the presentation? /img/vbsmilies/htf/smiley_wink.gif
I've had a look at some of the online reviews of the blu-ray and was surprised to discover many are calling it a "stunning transfer", "better than any BW transfer I've ever seen", "a stunning blu-ray presentation", the word "stunning" is used often. What the hell were they watching? Makes me even more curious to check this blu-ray out myself. I have a 42" Toshiba LCD.

Though question.
(But it should never be a reason for him to keep silent!)
Mine arrived yesterday, ordered before I could read the review, and I promise to watch it on a 46" Samsung to see how good/bad it really is to my humble eyes and on a smaller screen. I'll tell you my findings, but you have to wait, because I scheduled the new Christmas Carol BD first now.
Cees

 

[Mike Frezon]

I, for one, will be especially interested to hear the reports back from Mr. Steve "New-to-Blu" Christou and Mr. Cees "Sim-before-Stewart" Alons. /img/vbsmilies/htf/biggrin.gif

 

[Michael Reuben]

Originally Posted by Steve Christou /forum/thread/294790/a-few-words-about-it-s-a-wonderful-life-in-blu-ray/90#post_3627702
The big question Cees is would most of us have found anything wrong with the PQ of Capra's classic if we hadn't read RAH's review?

I did.

/forum/thread/294790/a-few-words-about-it-s-a-wonderful-life-in-blu-ray/90#post_3627702
I've had a look at some of the online reviews of the blu-ray and was surprised to discover many are calling it a "stunning transfer", "better than any BW transfer I've ever seen", "a stunning blu-ray presentation", the word "stunning" is used often. What the hell were they watching?

I'm sure it comes as no surprise to anyone here that online reviewers frequently disagree. A lot of them praised Patton. Many of them slammed True Romance (which, if you actually know the film, is a fine Blu-ray).

 

[Steve Christou]

Michael, as you know I just got into blu-ray recently and I asked a friend to recommend some blu-ray films, Patton was one of them, "you won't believe how clear it looks" he told me. He also recommended The Longest Day and Zulu.
Mike, Cees has a bigger tv he'll notice more flaws. /img/vbsmilies/htf/smiley_wink.gif

 

[Mike Frezon]

Originally Posted by Steve Christou /forum/thread/294790/a-few-words-about-it-s-a-wonderful-life-in-blu-ray/90#post_3627716
Mike, Cees has a bigger tv he'll notice more flaws.

A clear-cut case of TV-envy.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Originally Posted by Steve Christou /forum/thread/294790/a-few-words-about-it-s-a-wonderful-life-in-blu-ray/90#post_3627716
Michael, as you know I just got into blu-ray recently and I asked a friend to recommend some blu-ray films, Patton was one of them, "you won't believe how clear it looks" he told me. He also recommended The Longest Day and Zulu.

Get a new friend. /img/vbsmilies/htf/smiley_wink.gif
Seriously, if you want to see what Blu-ray can do, get The Godfather trilogy. Or The Professionals.