A Few Thoughts About....Blu-ray/DVD FLIPPER DISCS (2 Viewers)

[Ronald Epstein]

KMR,

Just continuing to play devil's advocate here.

As far as I know Universal has never used this type
of format to release multiple sets.

Thus far, the use of "flippers" has been used solely
for the purpose of a single disc release.

So, for the moment, your argument is not based
on anything I am aware has been done yet.

 

[Felix Martinez]

Thanks for the info. Were these were tested on the PS3 (slot loading player), or other slot-loading devices (i.e. playing the DVD side in car DVD players)?

 

[Adam Gregorich]

Thanks for the info Adam. Any possibility of adding a PS3 to your suite of test players?

Sure...Want to send me one /img/vbsmilies/htf/smiley_wink.gif. I don't have one because it doesn't play nice with universal remotes and all my friends were on XBL. Kevin our regular Universal BD reviewer does have a PS3 (non-slim) and will try these out in the next day or so and confirm that they work issue free.

 

[Adam Gregorich]

Yes. I tested on two seperate slot load DVD players and a slot load BD player (not a PS3 which I don't have). The equipment I used is in my first post in this thread.

 

[Scott-S]

Even if I am willing to accept the discs will work flawlessly, and accept that I will easily be able to figure out what side is what, I have heard nothing to alleviate my fears that the discs will be scratch and fingerprint magnets. I hate having to treat a disc like it is radioactive. Pretty soon someone will market special Blu-ray handling gloves.

I do have a few questions:

1. If I want to watch the Blu-ray version of a movie, does the blue ring go up, or down when inserting into a player?
2. Is the color actually on the opposite side as the Blu-ray version?
3. Will they be able to have BD50 storage? OR are we stuck with BD25s?
4. It sounds like the two sides are fabricated separately, then glued together. If this is true, than how is this less expensive than the 2 disc approach?
5. Can you please add Blu-ray to your spell checker!!!!!!!! LOL

 

[RickER]

OK, where start.

Let me just say i was one of the people that had been burned by DVD-18s more than once. And, in at least one case the burn came a few years after i bought the set.
When i bought Adam-12 season 1 on DVD, the set played fine. I watched it all with no problems. But about 2 or 3 years later when i revisited it, side 2 of one of the discs froze up at what seemed to be the layer change. When i took the disc out i could see the outer edge of that disc was purple.

Clearly the disc rotted on the shelf.
I don't trust that this wont happen to any double sided disc. To many layers and to much glue is never a good thing!

I had other times that i bought new DVD-18 TV sets that ALL the discs were heavily scratched. Of course i returned them. I might or might not have been able to buy the set in question. I don't buy new discs that look like a kid has skated them across the floor. True, the Blu-ray has a scratch coat, but will the "flippers" have them?

Will the Blu-ray side be safe if the DVD side is scratched?

Has Universal ever checked to see if some of the movies and TV shows that were problem discs, were poor sellers because they were poor discs? Just read Amazon you will find many reviews for movies and TV shows that were a problem on DVD-18s. I know i stopped buying any flippers, because of Universal DVD-18s.

I don't hate the idea of 2 sided discs. I owned an LD player for 20 years, and they had rot too! But i hate the idea of spending my money, and being left to dry when the discs fail. At least in the days of LD, Pioneer made it right. They would send me replacements, or other titles if the one in question was out of print.

My last question. Why do i care to have the DVD side? I own a Blu-ray player. I wont use the other side, and i don't want to pay extra for it. If i ever wanted to watch a movie on my iPhone, and i don't, I could just download it. Oh yea, i throw those digital copy discs away.

Oh yea, Universal. Please if you ever put the classic, and original Battlestar Galactica (1978 series) on Blu, could it be single sided discs.

Thank you for your time, and letting me vent my random thoughts.

 

[Adam Gregorich]

I do have a few questions:If I want to watch the Blu-ray version of a movie, does the blue ring go up, or down when inserting into a player?Is the color actually on the opposite side as the Blu-ray version?Will they be able to have BD50 storage? OR are we stuck with BD25s?It sounds like the two sides are fabricated separately, then glued together. If this is true, than how is this less expensive than the 2 disc approach?Can you please add Blu-ray to your spell checker!!!!!!!! LOL

The blue ring goes up. The disc is just marked on the one side. There are two rings. The larger is sky blue and says something along the lines of this side up for Blu-ray. There is a smaller black ring that essentially says turn over for DVD.

Not sure what you mean. I think yes. The blue ring is on the opposite side so if you put the disc in a typical tray and see the blue ring facing up then you are watching the Blu-ray side.

Both of these discs are BD50

I believe so. Not sure as I'm not familiar with the costs. There must be a business case otherwise they wouldn't do something that costs more (assuming it does).

LOL along with HTF, HDMI, DTS, etc. I'm with you on that one!

 

[Douglas Monce]

Thanks to Ron and Adam for the real world test.

I know that my own experience is only anecdotal, however as a big collector of TV shows, and Universal in particular, I have LOTS of DVD-18s. My guess is close to 60 or 70 of them. I've never had one fail, and I do go back and watch these shows from time to time. In fact I've had far more DVD-9 discs stop working than flippers. I also have 8 or 9 HD-DVD combos and have had no trouble with them. At this point I've had more blu-rays fail (3) than HD-DVD combos.

Getting into middle age I share the concern about being able to read the labels, but the blue ring on the blu-ray side makes that a non-issue for all but the possibility of TV show sets.

Doug

 

[Edwin-S]

Who needs this? I have Bourne on DVD already. I don't need another DVD copy welded to the back of my BD copy. I wish they would stop wasting money on useless crap and endless re-releases. Start putting more films, new and old, on BD and use the money to ensure that the masters and transfers are of the highest quality. They think welding a DVD copy to the BD is going to boost sales? All it does is delay the adoption of BD, because the people they are trying to attract will just play the DVD copy and never use the BD side.

If they want people to switch to BD then lower the damn prices on BD discs in order to actually make them competitve to DVDs. I was looking at MOON and the retail price was 38 bucks Canadian. The DVD was 28. If the average person was going to buy that film which do you think they'd choose? It seems obvious to me, but it seems to be escaping the people running these studios. Also, manufacturers need to stop manufacturing DVD players, especially upscaling players. At this point in time the only players that should be being produced is Blu-ray players with backwards compatability for DVD.

 

[CraigF]

^ LOL. Well, I wouldn't go as far as you. I also have the DVDs, and would like the BDs at a reasonable price, what's currently real-market-acceptable pricing for catalog titles. And I'd like my BDs uncompromised. Proven uncompromised, not maybe-OK-uncompromised. It takes ZERO effort to continue to not own the Bourne BDs. I don't really get all the people making kissy-nice with the way it's going to be, and overlooking the question of why the titles couldn't have been released as-is, individually. Less effort for Universal and less whiny-typing for everybody.

Edit: as I said before: does some GE subsidiary have a patent etc. on this disc-gluey thing? Gotta be more to this than meets the eye, it refuses to die.

 

[Adam Gregorich]

Regardless of if they use this or the 2 disc approach, I really like getting a copy on DVD with the Blu-ray. We have a couple of rooms that don't have BD yet and we spend a week or two out of town at places that only have DVD players. Its nice to have the flexibility to still be able to watch our movies using DVD players when needed.

 

[David Coleman]

In reality, all disc based material needs to be one-sided. Two-sided just doesn't work. For catalog titles, there's be no need. For new titles it would only work as a way of phasing out DVD by only releasing a BD/DVD title.

 

[Douglas Monce]

I have to agree with Adam. I like having a DVD copy of a movie for compatibility reasons. Right now that means I have to buy two copies of the movie, one on blu-ray and one on DVD. As long as there are going to be two formats, either having a dvd and a blu-ray in the package, or having a flipper is the way to go.

Doug

 

[RickER]

But, like whats already been said, if its a catalog title, i probably already have it on DVD.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Regardless of if they use this or the 2 disc approach, I really like getting a copy on DVD with the Blu-ray. We have a couple of rooms that don't have BD yet and we spend a week or two out of town at places that only have DVD players. Its nice to have the flexibility to still be able to watch our movies using DVD players when needed.

I don't like it, if I have to pay extra money for having a release with both formats on it. If they're not going to charge extra for having both formats then I don't have a problem with it.
Crawdaddy

 

[Joe Karlosi]

What I don't understand about this is, who does this benefit?

1.) If you're a person who prefers and only wants a Blu-ray version, what is the point of having the DVD version on the same disc? Why would you ever need the DVD version?

2.) If you're a DVD fan who is not interested in Blu-ray at all, and who doesn't even own a BD player so he may sample the boosted quality difference, why would you need a Blu-ray version, and how could you even play the thing on your standard machine?

IF standard DVD machines accomodated all Blu discs, then I could see how a Joe Six Pack DVD Fan might be swayed to convert to Blu. But if they can't play the BD side anyway?

 

[Scott Merryfield]

I have to agree with those members who feel this is a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist. Personally, I have no need for the SD-DVD version. In fact, I sold my DVD copies of Bourne when I purchased the BD trilogy from the U.K. While we do occasionally take DVD's with us when we travel, I have more than enough SD-DVD material already in my library for those trips. I can survive without watching a film that I only own on BD when we travel.
If Universal feels the need to offer backwards compatibility, other studios have already devised a perfectly acceptable solution -- simply include both types of single-sided discs in the package.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

It's my opinion that perhaps some of you are looking at this
backwards.

Yes, the studios are including a DVD copy in their BD releases
so that everyone has the opportunity to use it in every player
in their home. Play it on your BD player and then in your portable
DVD player.

But they are also attempting to lure consumers who still have
not embraced the BD format. By giving them a copy of a BD
in addition to the DVD title they purchased they now are lured
into upgrading to the HD format.

I also feel, as one person already pointed out, Universal doesn't
want to give away DVDs. I can understand the fear that by
including a secondary DVD disc it may be given away and thus
a lost sale for the studio. Doesn't seem to matter to Warner and
Disney.

 

[Jesse Skeen]

The blue ring goes up. The disc is just marked on the one side. There are two rings. The larger is sky blue and says something along the lines of this side up for Blu-ray. There is a smaller black ring that essentially says turn over for DVD.

See, that's just wrong. If you're playing the DVD side, you've got nothing. If you hit Eject, a label-less disc comes out. What's so hard about printing a label on BOTH sides, the early DVDs had them?
I've got a couple Warner double-feature discs that are just ridiculous- they have printing just on side A, and have text crammed together saying "NAME OF MOVIE 1/ NAME OF MOVIE 2, REVERSE SIDE ADDITIONAL CONTENT." There should be printing on BOTH sides, with just the title on whatever you're going to get with that labeled side facing up, put in "This side up for" if need be, I've got a couple dollar-store discs that have that.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein /forum/thread/297010/a-few-thoughts-about-blu-ray-dvd-flipper-discs/30#post_3649393

It's my opinion that perhaps some of you are looking at this
backwards.

Yes, the studios are including a DVD copy in their BD releases
so that everyone has the opportunity to use it in every player
in their home. Play it on your BD player and then in your portable
DVD player.

But they are also attempting to lure consumers who still have
not embraced the BD format. By giving them a copy of a BDin addition to the DVD title they purchased they now are lured
into upgrading to the HD format.

I also feel, as one person already pointed out, Universal doesn't
want to give away DVDs. I can understand the fear that by
including a secondary DVD disc it may be given away and thus
a lost sale for the studio. Doesn't seem to matter to Warner and
Disney.

Ron, part of the issue is that this is a Blu-ray forum, so you are getting opinions from BD owners and enthusiasts. If Universal's target market for these discs is current non-BD owners, then you are asking the wrong audience for feedback.