3 Stooges Collection Vol. 7 - 1952-1954, November 10 (1 Viewer)

[Robert13]

That was their sister Birdie who was reincarnated in "Hoofs & Goofs" as a horse and returns for the sequel "Horsing Around". The parts with Benny Rubin in "Hoofs" are a riot with the fly-paper and the stairs bit. I've always loved these. But my favorite Joe Besser short is probably a tie between "Muscle Up A Little Closer" and "Oils Well That Ends Well". I am a Joe fan though so it's hard to pick just one favorite.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

I liked the Joe Besser shorts that were "all new", rather than retreads.

 

[Rob W]

Originally Posted by PJMTV
Someone mentioned the Warner Brothers cartoons of the 1950's not being letterboxed on DVD.
If you look at some 35mm prints of these cartoons, you will see that they are "windowboxed". This was done for theaters that would have masked the top & bottom for a wide-screen look. It allowed the picture to remain its intended 1:33-1 Acadamy ratio by putting black bars on the left & right sides.
Disney also did this with their cartoons up to "101 DALMATIONS".
So the Looney Tunes DVDs are presenting the cartoons in their proper screen ratio.

Any film collector who owns original 35mm prints of WB cartoons from the mid-fifties on can verify they were printed full-frame but designed to be matted for widescreen presentation. The 'windowboxed for 1:85' prints are later re-issue copies printed long after most theatres had the ability to run 1:33 correctly. If there are windowboxed reprints of the later shorts in circulation then someone who set up the reprinting program never bothered to research when the series went widescreen. There is also a great deal of doubt that 101 Dalmatians was ever projected 1:33 originally but I'm staying out of that one. Disney had already made several animated features in 2:35 so the idea that they didn't design for widescreen makes little sense for 1961.


Bob F, can you back me upon this ? You're my only hope.....

 

[WadeM]

Originally Posted by Rob W


Any film collector who owns original 35mm prints of WB cartoons from the mid-fifties on can verify they were printed full-frame but designed to be matted for widescreen presentation. The 'windowboxed for 1:85' prints are later re-issue copies printed long after most theatres had the ability to run 1:33 correctly. If there are windowboxed reprints of the later shorts in circulation then someone who set up the reprinting program never bothered to research when the series went widescreen. There is also a great deal of doubt that 101 Dalmatians was ever projected 1:33 originally but I'm staying out of that one. Disney had already made several animated features in 2:35 so the idea that they didn't design for widescreen makes little sense for 1961.


Bob F, can you back me upon this ? You're my only hope.....

The opening titles back up your statement, which is why I've wondered about it.

 

[PJMTV]

In the 1980's I projected a re-issue 35mm print of 101 DALMATIONS, it was windowboxed.

 

[ahollis]

With the success of WONDERFUL WORLD OF COLOR and all the other discussions about the proper ratio of many Disney films (that were not scope) from the 60's and 70's, I wonder if Disney did not film in 1:33, but composed for 1:85. This would allow any film to be show in perpetuate on television in a then correct ratio. The Disney people were smart and knew that except for certain classic animation, any films major life span would be lived out on television.

 

[PJMTV]

Originally Posted by ahollis

I wonder if Disney did not film in 1:33, but composed for 1:85. This would allow any film to be show in perpetuate on television in a then correct ratio.

Disney started doing this with JUNGLED BOOK, although there are still some framing issues when letterboxing that film. Some widescreen films, like TOOT WHISTLE PLUNK & BOOM were animated both ways, the objects & backgrounds in the widescreen version are composed differently than those in the full frame version - including the title cards.
The first Cinemascope Tom & Jerry Cartoon was also filmed both ways, 1:33-1 Acadamy ratio & 2:33-1 anamorphic Cinemascope. Aside form a few scenes, it appears the cartoon was just cropped for Cinemascope.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

I saw 101 DALMATIANS on its initial 1961 release and its first reissue in 1969.

I don't know what ratio it was, but I know what it wasn't, and it wasn't 1.33:1.

I had never seen a movie in that ratio in theaters, and it would have looked strange to me. It didn't look any different than all the other regular widescreen movies I saw in those days.

 

[Jack Theakston]

Original prints were not pillarboxed (set in a 1.85-1 frame, as opposed to "windowboxed" which is a video term to describe compensating for overscan) on either Disney or Warners films. That was an '80s phenomenon, as I recall, when the studios were actually concerned about aspect ratios. Back in the day, films old and new got run 1.85 in almost all US theaters whether the studio liked it or not.

The Disney animated features are well documented at the studio and they go by what is written. Some of these were oddball ratios like 1.66 and 1.75, but for the most part are 1.85-1. In many cases, if you run the films open matte, you'll see things you don't want to, like areas not colored in in the artwork and the top of the animation bench. In some rare instances, there are hard mattes in the films, too.

Regarding the WB's (and a couple of other studios') cartoons, while the opening titles are almost always blocked for 1.85-1, the cartoons themselves can be compromised at that ratio. Why that is I am still researching, but the only explanations I can figure is that either no one told the animators (doubtful), the animators figured upon the practice of running shorts Academy and changing over to widescreen for the feature (slightly more possible), or WB was releasing a back catalog of already-animated shorts (who knows?). I'll probably have my answer in the next month or so. In comparison, all of the MGM, UPA and Disney cartoons went widescreen right away. I haven't run anything more than later Lantz, but those seem to be widescreen, too.

 

[PJMTV]

I admit I can not confirm what the 1950's & 1960's Warner Brothers prints looked like. I ran the cartoons in the 1970's & 1980's and they were windowboxed then (not pillarboxed). Some were pillarboxed to look anamorphic when being sent with an anamorphic feature, when stretched out they looked 1:33-1. The Pillarboxed prints had no black on the top & bottom, just on the sides.

One weird thing we did with the Depatie-Freling United Artists Cartoons was to show them with an anamorphic lens to stretch out the picture over the wide screen, even if we were not showing an anamorphic feature. We were instructed to do this to fill out the screen, but not crop off the top & bottom. I don't recall doing this with any other studio.
The MGM cartoons reverted back to masking the picture for 1:85-1 in the 1960's, and they were shown that way. The Walter Lantz Cartoons were never windowboxed, they were matted for 1:85-1 framing from 1954 on. Even when I ran them in the 1970's.
Paramount's cartoons, including Popeye were intended to be shown 1:85-1 from 1954 on.
There was an ID Band on the films with the intended aspect ratio checked off. Some of the older theaters I worked at were able to show all aspect ratios, so I changed the projector plates to fit that film.

 

[PJMTV]

We have strayed so far from the original topic of the Three Stooges that I wanted to bring it back to them. In the 1980's there was a re-issue of the Three Stooges in 35mm to theaters, we ran them before the feature. They were marked on the film band as 1:85-1 ratio & we ran them this way. Polarized copies of the 3-D shorts were also included in this release. We ran SPOOKS & PARDON MY BACKFIRE in Polarized 3D back to back using two syncronized projectors with platters. Then we broke for an intermission while we re-set the projectors for the 2-D feature that followed.
One funny incident had a new print from Columbia including the full leaders for the end of reel 1 & beginning of reel 2 intact in the middle of the film. It was projected this way in the first run.

In the 1970's the Marx Brothers were popular & we had Monday & Tuesday Night showings of their films. Unfortunately this was at a multiplex theater which only had the capability of showing 1:85-1 or 2:33-1 and Universal did not windowbox the prints, it was a mess trying to keep important events on the screen.

 

[WadeM]

Originally Posted by PJMTV /forum/thread/291784/3-stooges-collection-vol-7-1952-1954-november-10/120#post_3641244

 

[Jack Theakston]

You take your prime lens off of your 'scope lens and either cut a new aperture plate or fudge the 'scope one with foil tape. Problem solved.

 

[MatthewA]

Originally Posted by PJMTV ">[/url]

We have strayed so far from the original topic of the Three Stooges that I wanted to bring it back to them. In the 1980's there was a re-issue of the Three Stooges in 35mm to theaters, we ran them before the feature. They were marked on the film band as 1:85-1 ratio & we ran them this way. Polarized copies of the 3-D shorts were also included in this release. We ran SPOOKS & PARDON MY BACKFIRE in Polarized 3D back to back using two syncronized projectors with platters. Then we broke for an intermission while we re-set the projectors for the 2-D feature that followed.
One funny incident had a new print from Columbia including the full leaders for the end of reel 1 & beginning of reel 2 intact in the middle of the film. It was projected this way in the first run.

In the 1970's the Marx Brothers were popular & we had Monday & Tuesday Night showings of their films. Unfortunately this was at a multiplex theater which only had the capability of showing 1:85-1 or 2:33-1 and Universal did not windowbox the prints, it was a mess trying to keep important events on the screen.


That still happens. A local theater showed "Miracle on 34th Street" this past month in a full-frame 35mm print and cropped it to 1.85:1 because they told me they do not have the height to cover the 1.33:1 ratio.
Originally Posted by [b]Jack Theakston[/b] [url=/forum/thread/291784/3-stooges-collection-vol-7-1952-1954-november-10/120#post_3642719]

 

[Jack Theakston]

It depends on if the theater's 'scope lens is integrated or not. Older lenses use a regular flat lens with an anamorphic attachment. Some newer lenses have it all in one. If the screen is common height, the prime lens can be de-attached and with a little masking on the top and bottom, an acceptable 1.37 image can be had.

 

[Rob W]

I remember doing exactly what Jack describes about 25 years ago when we ran an all-Curly Stooges program in a regular theatre that had never been set up for 1:37.

 

[Robert13]

I just read on The 3 Stooges forum that Sony is not planning on continuing this collection. With one more volume, how can they do this? Is this true? Can anyone deny or confirm this? If this is true, this is a horrible thing for Sony to do.

 

[mdnitoil]

Originally Posted by Robert13

I just read on The 3 Stooges forum that Sony is not planning on continuing this collection. With one more volume, how can they do this? Is this true? Can anyone deny or confirm this? If this is true, this is a horrible thing for Sony to do.

Not for nothing, but there has been no official word on this. The last statement we've seen from anyone remotely connected with Sony is that it will take a little longer for this last volume as none of the shorts have ever been released in any home video format and will need extra work done. Personally, I would be taking the doom and gloom poster on the other board to task for his sources before I went around panicking.

 

[Ockeghem]

Robert,

I really hope this is non-factual. I just picked up vol. 7 (1952-1954), and I am really looking forward to the Bessers.

 

[Robert13]

I hope he is wrong and the set is being planned. I thought it was an official word from Sony since I had heard this set had the most question of being released for whatever reason. Hopefully, it sees the light of day. Would be a shame if it didn't since it has remained on the best-seller lists of all the online dvd stores.