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Complaint to Studios: INCLUDE THE ORIGINAL SOUND MIX!


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43 replies to this topic

#1 of 44 DavidS

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Posted January 30 2008 - 08:43 AM

There seem to be very many discs being released lately without their original sound mix. I was reading a review of the Blu-Ray disc of Life of Brian on a website today, and while it mentions the lackluster quality of the 5.1 mix, there was no mention of the complete lack of the original mix on the disc, even though there's a Hungarian 5.1 track (!) on there.

Now, in this day and age, with larger disc capacities and room for many versions of a soundtrack, there is no excuse for NOT putting the original mix on there. This is a thoroughly annoying trend that started on DVD and is now making its way to the HD formats. I'm not saying the powers that be should spring for a lossless or uncompressed original soundtrack on every title, although it would be nice. I just want it to be included, as closely as is possible to its original speaker configuration.

With people talking about replicating the film experience as closely as possible at home (isn't that what HTF is all about?), I thought people would be more passionate on this issue. I know some of you might not be agreement, but including the original sound mix of a film should be just as important as proper visual presentation.
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#2 of 44 PaulDA

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Posted January 30 2008 - 09:56 AM

Whiile I sample newer mixes, I ALWAYS watch films (at least once, usually as the default choice) with the original sound mix when available. If I prefer the newer mix, I will select it after having gone with the original, but I too wish that the original was available more often.
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#3 of 44 justinslot

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Posted January 30 2008 - 10:03 AM

I'm right there with you on this--even if you feel like you have to add a 5.1 track so people will buy it so it'll sound nice on their systems (even if it won't sound like it did in the theater) what's stopping studios from slapping the original soundtrack on there? Kubrick did his movies in mono for a reason, dagnabbit.

#4 of 44 DavidS

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Posted January 30 2008 - 11:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinslot
Kubrick did his movies in mono for a reason, dagnabbit.

Right. If Kubrick liked them so much, WHY aren't they included on the DVD or HD media?
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#5 of 44 DavidS

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Posted January 30 2008 - 11:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulDA
While I sample newer mixes, I ALWAYS watch films (at least once, usually as the default choice) with the original sound mix when available. If I prefer the newer mix, I will select it after having gone with the original, but I too wish that the original was available more often.

I think that's what annoys me... We should always be given a CHOICE, and it's not as if the studio doesn't have the available materials to give us the option.
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#6 of 44 TravisR

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Posted January 30 2008 - 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulDA
Whiile I sample newer mixes, I ALWAYS watch films (at least once, usually as the default choice) with the original sound mix when available. If I prefer the newer mix, I will select it after having gone with the original, but I too wish that the original was available more often.
Same here.

#7 of 44 Paul Arnette

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Posted January 30 2008 - 01:05 PM

Amen!
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#8 of 44 Jim_K

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Posted January 30 2008 - 11:51 PM

Ditto.
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#9 of 44 Jari K

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Posted January 31 2008 - 01:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidS
We should always be given a CHOICE..

I agree. Adding that e.g. Mono-track takes very little space, but gives that "option" for many. I personally listen the 5.1-track in 80% of the time, but when I re-watch the film, I can then choose "original Mono" etc.

But yes, I agree, we should always have that option at least, even when many 5.1-remixes are very good when it comes to "bigger studios".

The problem is even more serious in Europe, where many times the Mono-track is dropped from the R1-release (SD DVD) to make room for these totally, utterly useless dub-tracks. It´s very sad. One reason why I import most of my DVDs (and HD-titles).

#10 of 44 Garrett Lundy

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Posted January 31 2008 - 03:44 AM

Indeed. a mono or stereo mix in "mere" CD quality would be just fine. Not everyone with an HDTV has a surround-sound system.
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#11 of 44 ManW_TheUncool

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Posted January 31 2008 - 05:40 AM

Agreed. I'm not as hardcore as some, but I usually prefer to watch a film w/ its original soundtrack as well. Often times, it just doesn't feel/sound right at all to have a (fake-sounding) pumped up 5.1 mix, particularly for older films -- and that's somewhat besides the matter of having a faithful (re)presentation of the films.

To some extent, it's almost like the colorization thing w/ old B&W films.

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#12 of 44 DavidS

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Posted January 31 2008 - 07:15 AM

Another annoying thing about this is, as some of you have been saying, what if you don't LIKE the new mix? For example, a new DVD of Groundhog Day was released this week, and only includes a 5.1 track. I'm not fond of the mix on this disc, as I think the music overpowers the dialogue in some scenes. On the previous special edition, at least they included the original 2.0 track, and while not wonderful in quality, at least it was there. On the new disc, it's conspicuously absent. Guess I'm holding on to the old disc instead.
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#13 of 44 Jeff Adkins

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Posted January 31 2008 - 08:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidS
Right. If Kubrick liked them so much, WHY aren't they included on the DVD or HD media?
Quite frankly, because he is dead. Prior to his death, all DVDs, LDs and VHS of his films included the original sound mix to the best of my knowledge.

There's no reason a TrueHD 2.0 track can't be included as an option with all the bandwidth available.

#14 of 44 DavidS

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Posted January 31 2008 - 11:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Adkins
Quite frankly, because he is dead. Prior to his death, all DVDs, LDs and VHS of his films included the original sound mix to the best of my knowledge.

There's no reason a TrueHD 2.0 track can't be included as an option with all the bandwidth available.

His death should be no excuse. And I agree with you on the second part. No reason or excuse.
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#15 of 44 DavidS

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Posted February 01 2008 - 01:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
To some extent, it's almost like the colorization thing w/ old B&W films.

I completely agree. By the way, are there any admins on HTF who agree with me?
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#16 of 44 DaViD Boulet

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Posted February 01 2008 - 08:50 AM

Allow me to emphasize that not only should the original mix be provided, but it should be provided in LOSSLESS quality.

I watched "20 million miles from earth" on Blu-ray the other night (Ray Harryhousen). It's a 1950's film with all the obvious limitaions of the source material, but Sony actually provides the 2.0 original sound mix in lossless TrueHD.

Posted Image

And yes, even with "compromised" material like this, you can still hear the more open/natural sound of the lossless mix compared to the lossy Dolby core.

I have it on good authority that Disney is (fingers crossed) going to give us the orignal sound mix in lossless for Sleeping Beauty as well.
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#17 of 44 DavidS

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Posted February 01 2008 - 09:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
I have it on good authority that Disney is (fingers crossed) going to give us the orignal sound mix in lossless for Sleeping Beauty as well.

I hope so... when I heard the disc was going to have a 7.1 mix, I rolled my eyes in annoyance.
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#18 of 44 Douglas Monce

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Posted February 01 2008 - 09:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidS
I hope so... when I heard the disc was going to have a 7.1 mix, I rolled my eyes in annoyance.

Sleeping Beauty was a Super Technirama 70 film and as such would have had six track magnetic stereophonic sound. They may have added a subwoofer channel to the standard 6 channel mix. Also the original 6 channel mix would have to be remixed to account for modern speaker placement.

I don't have a problem with remixing an old sound track even a mono soundtrack into multi channel 5.1 or the like, as long as the original sound stems are used, or an attempt is made to find the original library sounds that were used for the film. As long as the sounds used are the originals a stereo mix doesn't bother me. Its when newly recorded effects are mixed with vintage sound that it bugs me. A perfect example is Vertigo. The sounds used for the cars are so obviously a new digital recording that it pulls me out of the movie.

Doug
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#19 of 44 DavidS

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Posted February 01 2008 - 10:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Sleeping Beauty was a Super Technirama 70 film and as such would have had six track magnetic stereophonic sound. They may have added a subwoofer channel to the standard 6 channel mix. Also the original 6 channel mix would have to be remixed to account for modern speaker placement.

I figured that might be the case, but as far as i know, 6-track mag never had a discrete rear center surround channel. I don't mind them including 7.1, but if they're going to do that, a separate mix as close as possible to the source would be fine. If it was originally a 5/1.0 presentation, a mixed-down 3/1.0 presentation would please me, as it's the closest you can get with our modern sound formats.
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#20 of 44 Douglas Monce

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Posted February 01 2008 - 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidS
I figured that might be the case, but as far as i know, 6-track mag never had a discrete rear center surround channel. I don't mind them including 7.1, but if they're going to do that, a separate mix as close as possible to the source would be fine. If it was originally a 5/1.0 presentation, a mixed-down 3/1.0 presentation would please me, as it's the closest you can get with our modern sound formats.


As far as I know, you are correct, they never had a rear center channel. In fact the speaker placement for most stereophonic films from the 50s and 60s are different from modern films and would have to be re-mixed to take that into account. I agree they should try to recreate the original intent of the sound mix as closely as possible.

Doug
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