Complaint to Studios: INCLUDE THE ORIGINAL SOUND MIX! (1 Viewer)

[DavidS]

Precisely what I'm getting at.

 

[DavidS]

Now that Universal (one of the biggest offenders in this arena) has decided to release on Blu-Ray, let's hope they do a little better with their audio as well.

 

[ZackR]

I cannot stress enough how important original audio is to me. It took nine years into the DVD format before I got one of my all-time favorites with original audio (Superman: The Movie in 2006). I don't want that happening again.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE release titles with the original audio as an option!

 

[Roogs Benoit]

Why is it that we have to ask the studios to give us the original audio mix as an option?
The new mix is the one that should be the option!
The original mix should always be there.

When Di$ney put out The Lion King with their DEHT mix, I believe that the original mix was the default track and the DEHT was the optional track.
I don't have it currently to verify this, but I feel that, that's how it should always be done.

These "new updated mixes" should be an option...not the original track.

Roogs

 

[Dr Griffin]

Thought this thread could use a timely resurrection, after getting a little insider info from Twilight Time in another thread. It seems that the days of home video versions of the original sound mixes and formats is considered obsolete by the studios. According to Twilight Time, all "the new 4K masters generally only contain the newest track." It looks like this has gone from trend to common practice. Don't sell or throw away those LDs, DVDs etc collectors, because you may be throwing away history. If a film was originally released in mono, that track, at the very least, should also be included with any revisionist track. If a Dolby Stereo (surround) track won an Academy Award, don't you at least want the option of being able to hear it!? I've seen Oscar winning Dolby soundtracks appear on Blu-ray in DTS 5.1(!), and this is not even getting into some original tracks' directional dialog and sound effects being lazily adapted or totally ignored in the revisionist version. I can't agree with this philosophy. No doubt lossless audio is an improvement, and if the new lossless track strictly adheres to the original directional sound where applicable, there is no reason to deride it as revisionist, but again, at least some of these original soundtracks, where awards have been given, or the inability to produce an original experience via new lossless mix (mono to DTS 5.1 as an extreme), should include both tracks.

End of rant.

 

[Tony Bensley]

While in general, I love the restoration work done on last year's Criterion Blu-ray/DVD combo of A HARD DAY'S NIGHT: 50th Anniversary Edition, I do wish the original non-revised soundtrack had been included, along with the revisionist version that was requested by Director Richard Lester. Yes, I do love the screams in the opening sequence (Among Richard Lester's requests for inclusion in the Criterion release, and apparently was part of his original "vision" for the film!), which I mistakenly assumed were in the original sound mix (They were not!), and the "new" soundtrack in my opinion, has a nice naturalness on the mono soundtrack, but it isn't original!


CHEERS!

 

[moviebuff75]

I guess we will never hear The Wizard of oz and Willy Wonka in their original versions without any alterations.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

While in general, I love the restoration work done on last year's Criterion Blu-ray/DVD combo of A HARD DAY'S NIGHT: 50th Anniversary Edition, I do wish the original non-revised soundtrack had been included, along with the revisionist version that was requested by Director Richard Lester. Yes, I do love the screams in the opening sequence (Among Richard Lester's requests for inclusion in the Criterion release, and apparently was part of his original "vision" for the film!), which I mistakenly assumed were in the original sound mix (They were not!), and the "new" soundtrack in my opinion, has a nice naturalness on the mono soundtrack, but it isn't original!


CHEERS!

In the original mono, listen closely for when Ringo sets his high-hats during the If I Fell number. There is a bit of Foley work there.


(1:13 mark)

 

[Dr Griffin]

While in general, I love the restoration work done on last year's Criterion Blu-ray/DVD combo of A HARD DAY'S NIGHT: 50th Anniversary Edition, I do wish the original non-revised soundtrack had been included, along with the revisionist version that was requested by Director Richard Lester. Yes, I do love the screams in the opening sequence (Among Richard Lester's requests for inclusion in the Criterion release, and apparently was part of his original "vision" for the film!), which I mistakenly assumed were in the original sound mix (They were not!), and the "new" soundtrack in my opinion, has a nice naturalness on the mono soundtrack, but it isn't original!


CHEERS!

Criterion is usually the exception to this new rule. I love their work on the Perspecta 3-track releases - Sanjuro/Yojimbo for instance.

 

[turtledove]

I generally like new surround mixes for most films. Some films don't need them but I think when they do a new mix they shouldn't mess about adding or subtracting what was originally there.

Generally I love the Bond mixes but YOLT has new sound effects that ruin it for me and OHMSS has the music mixed too low in the surround mix.

Why make these changes? Surely its possible to create surround without annoying people.

Here in the UK many discs have foreign tracks so original audio is often missing , as on several of the Bond movies but surround mixes can be good.


The worst example is the Lionsgate release of The Avengers series 5. No mono and only an appalling 5.1 mix that does nothing extra that pressing the "7 channel surround" button on the amp won't do.

If original audio is left off is it so difficult to make a surround track that is decent?

 

[Brent Reid]

Here are a couple of pertinent threads readers of this one may have missed:

• You've lost that mono feeling, now it's gone, gone, gone.
• Original Mono Soundtracks Missing on Blu-ray

 

[MatthewA]

I guess we will never hear The Wizard of oz and Willy Wonka in their original versions without any alterations.

And although Disney thought the theatrical cut of Bedknobs and Broomsticks was the only one worthy of a Blu-ray release, that consideration didn't extend to the film's original mono mix!

 

[Dr Griffin]

I generally like new surround mixes for most films. Some films don't need them but I think when they do a new mix they shouldn't mess about adding or subtracting what was originally there.

Generally I love the Bond mixes but YOLT has new sound effects that ruin it for me and OHMSS has the music mixed too low in the surround mix.

Why make these changes? Surely its possible to create surround without annoying people.

Here in the UK many discs have foreign tracks so original audio is often missing , as on several of the Bond movies but surround mixes can be good.


The worst example is the Lionsgate release of The Avengers series 5. No mono and only an appalling 5.1 mix that does nothing extra that pressing the "7 channel surround" button on the amp won't do.

If original audio is left off is it so difficult to make a surround track that is decent?

No doubt that techology in sound should not stand still just to preserve originality. Along with improvements to the picture, the new lossless soundtracks should be featured as the default track. I would just like to see the original mixes and formats remain an option. I will not get my wish, because even Dolby wants to do away with ProLogic, and I believe it will not be included in any future receivers. Dolby, Dolby Stereo and Dolby SR etc was limited to a 7000 Hz high end, if I remember correctly, and I can understand the decision, but I'm hanging onto those older releases that included a true home video version of the original sound. My DVD of Far From Heaven includes both Dolby and DTS versions of the soundtracks.

 

[schan1269]

No doubt that techology in sound should not stand still just to preserve originality. Along with improvements to the picture, the new lossless soundtracks should be featured as the default track. I would just like to see the original mixes and formats remain an option. I will not get my wish, because even Dolby wants to do away with ProLogic, and I believe it will not be included in any future receivers. Dolby, Dolby Stereo and Dolby SR etc was limited to a 7000 Hz high end, if I remember correctly, and I can understand the decision, but I'm hanging onto those older releases that included a true home video version of the original sound. My DVD of Far From Heaven includes both Dolby and DTS versions of the soundtracks.

IMG_5138.JPG

Lossless, or not, has nothing to do with "original audio".

And where did you hear DPL is disappearing?

 

[Dr Griffin]

Lossless, or not, has nothing to do with "original audio".

And where did you hear DPL is disappearing?

Well, I know I didn't hear it in lossless in the theater 30 years ago. It was most likely Dolby with the high end cap. I remember reading that Dolby wants to use Atmos to downmix moving forward. I don't have a link, but it may have been in their own Atmos literature.

My main concern is that any newly created tracks don't screw with directional sounds and dialogue, but it would also be nice to be able to have the option to hear it in its original format, limitations and all. If a film had Dolby Stereo with mono surrounds, that should be an option to a 5 or 7.1 track.

 

[schan1269]

Well, I know I didn't hear it in lossless in the theater 30 years ago. It was most likely Dolby with the high end cap. I remember reading that Dolby wants to use Atmos to downmix moving forward. I don't have a link, but it may have been in their own Atmos literature.
My main concern is that any newly created tracks don't screw with directional sounds and dialogue, but it would also be nice to be able to have the option to hear it in its original format, limitations and all. If a film had Dolby Stereo with mono surrounds, that should be an option to a lossless 5 or 7.1 track.

Redoing audio "lossless" doesn't add anything...that wasn't there 30 years ago.

 

[Patrick McCart]

While in general, I love the restoration work done on last year's Criterion Blu-ray/DVD combo of A HARD DAY'S NIGHT: 50th Anniversary Edition, I do wish the original non-revised soundtrack had been included, along with the revisionist version that was requested by Director Richard Lester. Yes, I do love the screams in the opening sequence (Among Richard Lester's requests for inclusion in the Criterion release, and apparently was part of his original "vision" for the film!), which I mistakenly assumed were in the original sound mix (They were not!), and the "new" soundtrack in my opinion, has a nice naturalness on the mono soundtrack, but it isn't original!


CHEERS!

It's possible that it was supposed to be in the final mix and for one reason or another it was omitted. The booklet specifically notes that reel one's soundtrack came from an archival print from BFI. I recall that the track without the screams has a strange fade-out at the end of the title song as opposed to the smooth transition on the newer mono track.

 

[Dr Griffin]

Redoing audio "lossless" doesn't add anything...that wasn't there 30 years ago.

This isn't about lossless vs lossy. It's about revisionism.

 

[schan1269]

This isn't about lossless vs lossy. It's about revisionism.

I'm not the one confused here...

The package...

Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD-MA, DD, DTS and PCM...

Is different than the audio format...

1.0, 2.0, 4.0, 4.1 and 5.1...and so on.

 

[FoxyMulder]

While including the original audio mix would be nice many here are forgetting that the studio's are messing with the dynamic range of many films when they hit the home markets, as an example it may say lossless on the back cover but that means nothing if the audio has had its dynamic range reduced because people are complaining about the audio mix and "we can't hear the dialogue" etc etc.


It's all in the mix, don't mess with the dynamic range, televisions and AV Receivers have built in features to limit dynamic range, you can therefore fix it yourself if you want less headroom between dialogue, music and sound effects but you cannot fix the problem of a soundtrack having it's dynamic range altered specifically for the blu ray or dvd, too late once the damage is done.