Complaint to Studios: INCLUDE THE ORIGINAL SOUND MIX!

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by DavidS, Jan 30, 2008.

  1. DavidS

    DavidS Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    0
    There seem to be very many discs being released lately without their original sound mix. I was reading a review of the Blu-Ray disc of Life of Brian on a website today, and while it mentions the lackluster quality of the 5.1 mix, there was no mention of the complete lack of the original mix on the disc, even though there's a Hungarian 5.1 track (!) on there.

    Now, in this day and age, with larger disc capacities and room for many versions of a soundtrack, there is no excuse for NOT putting the original mix on there. This is a thoroughly annoying trend that started on DVD and is now making its way to the HD formats. I'm not saying the powers that be should spring for a lossless or uncompressed original soundtrack on every title, although it would be nice. I just want it to be included, as closely as is possible to its original speaker configuration.

    With people talking about replicating the film experience as closely as possible at home (isn't that what HTF is all about?), I thought people would be more passionate on this issue. I know some of you might not be agreement, but including the original sound mix of a film should be just as important as proper visual presentation.
     
  2. PaulDA

    PaulDA Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,693
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    St. Hubert, Quebec, Canada
    Real Name:
    Paul
    Whiile I sample newer mixes, I ALWAYS watch films (at least once, usually as the default choice) with the original sound mix when available. If I prefer the newer mix, I will select it after having gone with the original, but I too wish that the original was available more often.
     
  3. justinslot

    justinslot Agent

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm right there with you on this--even if you feel like you have to add a 5.1 track so people will buy it so it'll sound nice on their systems (even if it won't sound like it did in the theater) what's stopping studios from slapping the original soundtrack on there? Kubrick did his movies in mono for a reason, dagnabbit.
     
  4. DavidS

    DavidS Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    0

    Right. If Kubrick liked them so much, WHY aren't they included on the DVD or HD media?
     
  5. DavidS

    DavidS Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    0

    I think that's what annoys me... We should always be given a CHOICE, and it's not as if the studio doesn't have the available materials to give us the option.
     
  6. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    26,659
    Likes Received:
    3,822
    Location:
    The basement of the FBI building
    Same here.
     
  7. Paul Arnette

    Paul Arnette Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Messages:
    2,616
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen!
     
  8. Jim_K

    Jim_K Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,090
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ditto.
     
  9. Jari K

    Jari K Producer

    Joined:
    May 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3,292
    Likes Received:
    250

    I agree. Adding that e.g. Mono-track takes very little space, but gives that "option" for many. I personally listen the 5.1-track in 80% of the time, but when I re-watch the film, I can then choose "original Mono" etc.

    But yes, I agree, we should always have that option at least, even when many 5.1-remixes are very good when it comes to "bigger studios".

    The problem is even more serious in Europe, where many times the Mono-track is dropped from the R1-release (SD DVD) to make room for these totally, utterly useless dub-tracks. It´s very sad. One reason why I import most of my DVDs (and HD-titles).
     
  10. Garrett Lundy

    Garrett Lundy Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Messages:
    3,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Indeed. a mono or stereo mix in "mere" CD quality would be just fine. Not everyone with an HDTV has a surround-sound system.
     
  11. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2001
    Messages:
    5,980
    Likes Received:
    33
    Location:
    The BK
    Real Name:
    ManW
    Agreed. I'm not as hardcore as some, but I usually prefer to watch a film w/ its original soundtrack as well. Often times, it just doesn't feel/sound right at all to have a (fake-sounding) pumped up 5.1 mix, particularly for older films -- and that's somewhat besides the matter of having a faithful (re)presentation of the films.

    To some extent, it's almost like the colorization thing w/ old B&W films.

    _Man_
     
  12. DavidS

    DavidS Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    0
    Another annoying thing about this is, as some of you have been saying, what if you don't LIKE the new mix? For example, a new DVD of Groundhog Day was released this week, and only includes a 5.1 track. I'm not fond of the mix on this disc, as I think the music overpowers the dialogue in some scenes. On the previous special edition, at least they included the original 2.0 track, and while not wonderful in quality, at least it was there. On the new disc, it's conspicuously absent. Guess I'm holding on to the old disc instead.
     
  13. Jeff Adkins

    Jeff Adkins Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 1998
    Messages:
    1,771
    Likes Received:
    15
    Real Name:
    Jeff Adkins
    Quite frankly, because he is dead. Prior to his death, all DVDs, LDs and VHS of his films included the original sound mix to the best of my knowledge.

    There's no reason a TrueHD 2.0 track can't be included as an option with all the bandwidth available.
     
  14. DavidS

    DavidS Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    0

    His death should be no excuse. And I agree with you on the second part. No reason or excuse.
     
  15. DavidS

    DavidS Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    0

    I completely agree. By the way, are there any admins on HTF who agree with me?
     
  16. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,800
    Likes Received:
    3
    Allow me to emphasize that not only should the original mix be provided, but it should be provided in LOSSLESS quality.

    I watched "20 million miles from earth" on Blu-ray the other night (Ray Harryhousen). It's a 1950's film with all the obvious limitaions of the source material, but Sony actually provides the 2.0 original sound mix in lossless TrueHD.

    [​IMG]

    And yes, even with "compromised" material like this, you can still hear the more open/natural sound of the lossless mix compared to the lossy Dolby core.

    I have it on good authority that Disney is (fingers crossed) going to give us the orignal sound mix in lossless for Sleeping Beauty as well.
     
  17. DavidS

    DavidS Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    0

    I hope so... when I heard the disc was going to have a 7.1 mix, I rolled my eyes in annoyance.
     
  18. Douglas Monce

    Douglas Monce Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    5,514
    Likes Received:
    12

    Sleeping Beauty was a Super Technirama 70 film and as such would have had six track magnetic stereophonic sound. They may have added a subwoofer channel to the standard 6 channel mix. Also the original 6 channel mix would have to be remixed to account for modern speaker placement.

    I don't have a problem with remixing an old sound track even a mono soundtrack into multi channel 5.1 or the like, as long as the original sound stems are used, or an attempt is made to find the original library sounds that were used for the film. As long as the sounds used are the originals a stereo mix doesn't bother me. Its when newly recorded effects are mixed with vintage sound that it bugs me. A perfect example is Vertigo. The sounds used for the cars are so obviously a new digital recording that it pulls me out of the movie.

    Doug
     
  19. DavidS

    DavidS Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    0

    I figured that might be the case, but as far as i know, 6-track mag never had a discrete rear center surround channel. I don't mind them including 7.1, but if they're going to do that, a separate mix as close as possible to the source would be fine. If it was originally a 5/1.0 presentation, a mixed-down 3/1.0 presentation would please me, as it's the closest you can get with our modern sound formats.
     
  20. Douglas Monce

    Douglas Monce Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    5,514
    Likes Received:
    12


    As far as I know, you are correct, they never had a rear center channel. In fact the speaker placement for most stereophonic films from the 50s and 60s are different from modern films and would have to be re-mixed to take that into account. I agree they should try to recreate the original intent of the sound mix as closely as possible.

    Doug
     

Share This Page