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Mannix is Coming! (All things Mannix w/spoilers)

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#1821 of 2382 ONLINE   Harry-N

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Posted July 11 2013 - 04:36 PM

:) Smiley face

Mannix Italicized

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    [*]Bullet list
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      [*]Number 1
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      Looks like it's all working for me. Could it be a browser issue? A settings issue in your profile?

       

      [color=#ff0000;][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]harry-n[/color][/font]


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A fugitive moves on, through anguished tunnels of time, down dim streets, into dark corners. And each new day offers fear and frustration, tastes of honey and hemlock. But if there is a hazard, there is also hope. - Closing narration to THE FUGITIVE, "Death Is The Door Prize".

#1822 of 2382 OFFLINE   jompaul17

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Posted July 12 2013 - 07:22 AM

:) Smiley face
Mannix Italicized
Bold text
Underlined
Crossed-out
Subscript
Superscript


    [*]Bullet list
    [*]2nd item
    [*]third item
    [/list]

      [*]

      [*]Number 1
      [*]Number 2
      [*]Number 3
      [/list]Looks like it's all working for me. Could it be a browser issue? A settings issue in your profile?
       
      [color=rgb(255,0,0);][font="'times new roman', times, serif;"]harry-n[/color][/font]

Harry,

Take away the smiley face and the color text and this looks scarily similar to writing in my real job.

Well, as of now, I'm still having the issue. The editor is greyed out and html markup language appears in the edit box, which is filled only with plain text. Nothing was changed -- by me -- in my browser or profile. Of course, updates happen at will and browsers tend to interact with anti-virus programs in curious ways.

But, I do find it curious.

I guess I'll have to investigate on my own, in order to get my smiley face and bullets back...

#1823 of 2382 OFFLINE   jompaul17

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Posted July 12 2013 - 07:48 AM

Harry,

Take away the smiley face and the color text and this looks scarily similar to writing in my real job.

Well, as of now, I'm still having the issue. The editor is greyed out and html markup language appears in the edit box, which is filled only with plain text. Nothing was changed -- by me -- in my browser or profile. Of course, updates happen at will and browsers tend to interact with anti-virus programs in curious ways.

But, I do find it curious.

I guess I'll have to investigate on my own, in order to get my smiley face and bullets back...

 

Hmm...

 

I had to completely obliterate my browsing history, and the full editor came back.

 

Something must have gotten flagged and, since it happened right after I went to visit the YouTube link, I'm guessing my anti-virus software got a little too over-protective.

 


    [*] :)
    [*] ;)
    [*] :P
    [*] ^_^
    [*] :wacko:
    [*] :mellow:
    [*] :wacko:
    [*] :)
    [/list]

#1824 of 2382 OFFLINE   jompaul17

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Posted July 12 2013 - 07:50 AM

Not that simple -- the restrictions came back, right after I made that post.OK, so, something on this site is behaving badly, probably in the ads...

#1825 of 2382 OFFLINE   jompaul17

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Posted July 12 2013 - 08:02 AM

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.Someone posted a season 7 review on Amazon, claiming there are missing scenes on the DVDs, specifically in "Silent Target." He cites the disclaimer on the DVD box that says some scenes may be deleted and goes on to rant about the release of DVDs with missing scenes.I can't argue with the topic of the rant -- I fully agree with that.But, I just don't know of any deleted scenes on the DVDs.Further, the running time of the episodes seems both quite long and quite consistent -- and remarkably the same for all seasons but season 7.As previously discussed (and ranted) here, season 7 was affected by the packaging in that CBS Mystery Double Feature -- the one with the black cat, which first cut into the opening (in season 6) and then into the running time of season 7. Notice how the running time of the season 7 episodes is a full minute less than all of the other seasons, including season 8, when the packaging stopped and so the full running time came back.Now, one thing I do find odd is that the season 7 running times seem to be a bit less consistent than other seasons.But, not only do I not find any scenes missing in any of the episodes, why would they cut scenes from season 7 and no other?My guess is that this guy probably mis-remembered something about that particular episode. Because of the style of editing, it is easy -- very easy -- to reme3mber things that weren't there. The show was designed to make viewers fill in gaps, practically inviting us to use our imagination.But, if anyone has any other information, please do share it.

#1826 of 2382 ONLINE   Harry-N

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Posted July 12 2013 - 11:08 AM

From what I could observe of Season 7, it looked fully intact to me. As you say, the normal quick-edits in MANNIX could lead someone not familiar with the show to think that something is missing. The "some episodes may be edited..." notation is on virtually all CBS/Paramount product and is legal boilerplate.

 

My browser has been behaving properly. I use Google Chrome for the most part. On quick check of IE10, it's all fine too.

 

Harry


My DVD Collection

A fugitive moves on, through anguished tunnels of time, down dim streets, into dark corners. And each new day offers fear and frustration, tastes of honey and hemlock. But if there is a hazard, there is also hope. - Closing narration to THE FUGITIVE, "Death Is The Door Prize".

#1827 of 2382 ONLINE   Harry-N

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Posted July 12 2013 - 01:47 PM

My most recent MANNIX viewing was Season 8, Ep 4, "Walk On The Blind Side", and quite an entertaining episode it was, too. I was impressed at the long segments that *didn't* have Joe Mannix in them. Normally, he's in just about every scene of every episode, but this one focused a good amount of time on Peggy and her efforts to thwart her captors and get a message to Joe. That was refreshing, even though it could be classified as another "Peggy's kidnapped" episode.

 

Something I meant to mention before, but this thread sort of got quiet and I felt like I was talking to myself: I'm also enjoying the Season 8 version of the opening theme. Those opening bongos during the blue animation are new and different, and give the show a lift. The orchestra was also "on" when they recorded that version. It sounds tighter than it did in some of the earlier seasons.

 

Harry


My DVD Collection

A fugitive moves on, through anguished tunnels of time, down dim streets, into dark corners. And each new day offers fear and frustration, tastes of honey and hemlock. But if there is a hazard, there is also hope. - Closing narration to THE FUGITIVE, "Death Is The Door Prize".

#1828 of 2382 OFFLINE   jompaul17

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Posted July 13 2013 - 07:09 AM

From what I could observe of Season 7, it looked fully intact to me. As you say, the normal quick-edits in MANNIX could lead someone not familiar with the show to think that something is missing. The "some episodes may be edited..." notation is on virtually all CBS/Paramount product and is legal boilerplate. My browser has been behaving properly. I use Google Chrome for the most part. On quick check of IE10, it's all fine too. Harry

Harry,I agree with you -- not only does the disclaimer seem entirely boilerplate, but I just don't see any evidence of missing scenes. There are not abrupt music cut-offs, all of the grids that lead into and out of commercial breaks are original (they made fake ones for syndication -- but you can tell by the process they used back then that the originals are all there), and those running times are dead-on consistent -- and generally almost unbelievably long (compared to today's standards). Once again, this is true for all but season 7, which was affected by that cat... But, there is no reason to believe that edits were made only for season 7. I do wonder why the running times of those season 7 episodes varies more than for other seasons, but the episodes seem entirely intact.Overall, in terms of that, music rights, video quality, menus -- I remain grateful for these wonderful DVDs.And, I am still having difficulty with the editor, still working in plaintext with the markup language. Maybe for the next post I will clear my browser history, just to get the icons back.I might change to google chrome -- I keep uninstalling it each time it is installed with an Adobe Flash update. But, maybe I'll start to use it. Not that it will fix the problem. I bet that comes from my anti-virus software... a real pain...

#1829 of 2382 OFFLINE   jompaul17

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Posted July 13 2013 - 08:19 AM

My most recent MANNIX viewing was Season 8, Ep 4, "Walk On The Blind Side", and quite an entertaining episode it was, too. I was impressed at the long segments that *didn't* have Joe Mannix in them. Normally, he's in just about every scene of every episode, but this one focused a good amount of time on Peggy and her efforts to thwart her captors and get a message to Joe. That was refreshing, even though it could be classified as another "Peggy's kidnapped" episode.

 

Something I meant to mention before, but this thread sort of got quiet and I felt like I was talking to myself: I'm also enjoying the Season 8 version of the opening theme. Those opening bongos during the blue animation are new and different, and give the show a lift. The orchestra was also "on" when they recorded that version. It sounds tighter than it did in some of the earlier seasons.

 

Harry

Harry,

 

Cleared the browsing history and the editor is back... for the moment...

 

First, regarding your last comment -- I'm not sure if you meant me or not, but I look forward to your posts! I've never been entirely sure if it is a good thing for me to respond to them all, or very fast, since I've wanted this thread to be an ongoing discussion about Mannix among all sorts of fans of the series.  Towards that end, I often sit back and hope others will join the fun -- and start to interact with each other. Sometimes this is combined with becoming to busy to answer some posts in the depth they deserve. But, I do not plan to abandon this thread so long as it exists and my fingers can still press the keys down in some kind of orderly way. 

 

But, I think that people do read this thread, so, you are not talking to yourself.  And, heck, so what if you are?  I've talked to myself on this thread quite a bit, at times.  The older we get, the better company we make for ourselves.

 

And hey -- if you are on "Walk on the Blind Side" already -- what happened to your comments about the rest of the episodes of season 7, and even the first few of season 8???  I was actually waiting for those, so that I could respond to them!!! What about Robert Reed's last episode, "Trap for a Pigeon" or MC strung out as a heroin addict in "The Ragged Edge" ???

 

Comment on those, and nothing will prevent me from responding!!!

 

As for "Walk on the Blind Side" -- that episode is yet another that holds a special place in my heart.

 

I have such an incredibly clear memory of watching it first-run. It is a specific episode I waited for, and the first one I watched when season 8 finally -- finally -- made it into my hands on DVD, all these years later.

 

It is one of the very few disappointments of the DVD releases that the video quality is not up to par with the others -- and there seems to be no consensus as to whether that is due to a lack of re-mastering or degradation of the master.  Either way, it is a shame.

 

Now, to put the episode into context, keep in mind that in 1974 we did not have series like Remmington Steele, Moonlighting, or any of the modern-day (cheap?) relationships between men and women, one or more of which are playing heroic roles. The whole Joe-Peggy thing, it was tantalizing, so utterly different -- and, as life turns out, so realistic at its core.  

 

How many people out there have had chemistry with a co-worker of the opposite sex, chemistry that was always there, but never fulfilled, for one reason or another?  That chemistry is only intensified by having a common purpose -- a contribution to humanity -- that supercedes personal desire.

 

From the early part of season 3, to the first part of season 4 (up until "The World Between"), there was this emergence of more and more closeness between these two.   If you think about the end of "The Sound of Darkness" you think things are going to build from there.

 

But they never do.

 

And, the end of season 7 has them seemingly more separate again. The best example of this is "The Dark Hours" where you can see that closeness -- that chemistry and intensity -- come through in just a couple of scenes.  But, then there is that ending, with discussion of Joe's closet... Their relationship waxes and wanes, even as in real life.

 

OK, so where was this series going to go in season 8?

 

"Walk on the Blind" side has this nice interplay in the office when Joe comes back from SF.  Some gentle, playful closeness is established.  Then, after Peggy is kidnapped, and then presumed dead, you see this very adult reaction. Joe does not go to pieces -- he never goes to pieces.  It affects him in an adult way. That's reality.  Few of us go to pieces in a Hollywood kind of way when something horrible happens -- it affects us more deeply than that.  Peggy does the same thing when Joe is hurt -- you can see it all over her face, but she does not go to pieces.

 

Then, after Joe discovers the writing in the jacket, some tremendous scenes happen.

 

We have Joe, posing as Rudy the Real Estate Agent, approach the house where Peggy is being held.  He is right on top of Peggy, and does not know it. And, not only that, but MC is great when he is Joe playing someone else -- he is somehow never more in character than when he is Joe in some extreme situation or playing someone else -- because he is still so much in there, as Joe.

 

And so, when the kidnapper comes back down to Peggy, after Joe leaves, when they are both having tea -- such a great scene happens.

 

Peggy is asked "What does he look like?" 

 

She has no idea what is going on and says, "Who?"

 

The kidnapper is forced to say "The guy you work for, Mannix."

 

Peggy, in an offhand way, starts to describe Joe's physical features!  And, when she does, you can see the look on her face slowly change.  She is almost out of her dilemma, feeling better, a much more pleasant place -- just for thinking about and describing Joe!

 

This is the hero motif at its very -- very -- best.

 

That wonderful look on GF's face -- I'd love to see that a bit clearer.  It breaks my heart that this is the one episode of season 8 that is not entirely clear...

 

After describing his height and weight, the kidnapper asks the color of Joe's eyes.  Peggy responds, "Brown." Then, without being asked, she adds, "Brown hair."  She seems to do this just because she wants to.  When she does, she gives a pleasant nod.  She is somewhere else, for a moment.

 

So subtle.  So sweet.

 

Just pay attention and you will be rewarded.

 

After being asked what kind of car Joe drives, Peggy starts to come out of her small moment of bliss to catch on to what is really happening.  When she does, a moment of pure recognition is all over her face.

 

This guy has to be asking for a reason!

 

Her change in describing Joe's car color is not enough, so that when the kidnapper realizes it was Joe that visited and tells Peggy, "Well, he was here," GF practically explodes in recognition, "Oh, he knows I'm alive!"

 

And that, my viewer friends, is the culmination of a seven year relationship not only between Joe and Peggy, but between Mannix and Mannix fans.  Because Peggy conveys, in a pure instant, a Mannix moment -- and what that means.

 

She knows Joe.  And we know Joe.

 

Those two reinforce each other -- they always have.

 

She knows and we know that if Joe got that close, he the odds are extremely good that he going to find her.

 

He might be too late -- is almost too late, the way these episodes go.

 

But, in an instant, she knows she is not only no longer alone, but has hope -- great hope, the hope of the hero who will not stop short of anything to come through to find you.

 

She can now almost picture what Joe is up to while she is being held there.

 

And like real life, people who know each other so well and have that chemistry and appreciation for each other are never closer than when they are apart.

 

And Peggy knows Joe will stop at nothing to find her.

 

Notice the look of relief on Peggy's face after the kidnapper is called back upstairs.

 

This is the hero motif at its very -- very -- best.

 

There are still more shots of Peggy with this immense relief on her face.  Notice when she asks the kidnapper, "Who is it?" in almost an annoyed fashion -- she expected it to be Joe.

 

This scene culminates years of relationship, all around -- between Joe and Peggy, series and fans.  It is nothing short of brilliant -- writing, acting, editing.

 

Then, we get to the end -- ah, that end!

 

Ever since "The Sound of Darkness" we wanted to see Joe and Peggy embrace again -- actually embrace fully, since we never did see that in "The Sound of Darkness," since it was still 1969 then.  But, we see it in "Walk on the Blind Side." 

 

And it is not cheap, not put there in a soap opera kind of way, not just moving from one human relationship twitter feed to the next.

 

Mannix gave viewers the credit for taking the time to pay attention -- and rewarded them for so doing.

 

Mannix always seem to have an awareness that the viewers were following this guy through eight real years, with the backstory of leaving Intertect and going out on his own, with only Peggy -- which was enough. But, the focus was never on relationship so much as contributing, being a hero in the real world.  The deeds came first, the relationship came second.

 

And that made the relationship between Joe and Peggy so much more intense, so much more meaningful, so much more poignant.  These were adults living out responsibility to humankind first, and passion way second. They did not accomplish things "by accident."  Consider, in contrast, how modern day "heroes" first prize relationships with each other or have all sorts of personal problems -- and accomplish their deeds in an almost accidental (child-like) way.   (I'm so special I can do this stuff without really trying....).

 

And, as a result of that responsibility, Joe and Peggy got hurt and were placed in all sorts of peril.

 

But that made the relationship between them matter all the more -- one of the many paradoxes of life.

 

Go back to season 2, then watch "Walk on the Blind Side."  Notice how Peggy gets to know Joe through the years, how she evolves as a result, and not only in this episode, but throughout the series, to "get him."  Getting him is getting the classic heroic motif in something more than a cartoonish kind of way.

 

And so you get the beauty of the responsible hero motif as well -- through her eyes.

 

Such sweet -- sweet -- reward.

 

Say what you will, but I do not think the basic elements of a classic hero motif were ever pulled off in anything better than in Mannix -- things just came together in that series, in no small part because it was a series (not a movie, or a few movies, or a book) -- a series done in the true golden age of television, and when we just still cared about heroes more than anti-heroes.

 

And heroes matter to who we are and what we can be and do well beyond mere entertainment.



#1830 of 2382 ONLINE   Harry-N

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Posted July 13 2013 - 10:11 AM

Some brief comments on some end-of-season 7 episodes:

 

"Mask For A Charade" - I was so looking forward to the final Sutton Roley episode, yet I could barely manage to keep my eyes open on this one. I started it at least three times, but I don't think I managed to ever finish it. I must have seen the scene with Malcolm and the other cop visiting Claude Akins for the first time about five times. I just didn't have the wherewithal to start it yet again, so I moved on. I'll go back to it someday.

 

"A Question Of Murder" - I liked this one. Joe again comes to the aid of a kid who wants to prove that his boxing hero was murdered. The dynamics between Joe and the kid provide those extra glimpses into how the character of Joe Mannix is so masterful at dealing with all kinds of clients, the young, the old, whatever. He always knows just how to handle everyone.

 

"Trap For A Pigeon" - I think I missed this one. I must have gotten so tired of looking at that last disc that I forgot about it. Now that I realize it's the last Tobias episode, I'll have to go back and give it a look-see.

 

"The Ragged Edge" - This must be the one that caused my confusion into thinking I was moving on to S8. I'd watched this one a long time ago, back when I was watching S4 or 5, I wanted a look at the future of Joe Mannix, so I skipped ahead to the last episode of the last season released at that point. I'm sure my comments are somewhere back in this thread. I recall it was an excellent episode with acting kudos to Mike Connors.

 

Comments on early S8 episodes this far:

 

"Portrait In Blues" - It was fun seeing Larry Storch in something other than F-Troop. Stanley Adams who played Cyrano Jones in the famous tribbles episode of STAR TREK reprises the Alby character. The musician angle had been used before but is always a welcome diversion for me. I love how Joe always manages to just go right into studios while people are filming/recording. I don't think it's that easy in real life, but then again, Joe knows a lot of people.

 

"Game Plan" - James Olson guests. He had starred in one of my favorite early 70's movies, THE ANDROMEDA STRAIN. Here he plays the father of a kidnapped girl who happens to be Joe's goddaughter. Joe gets to drive a dune buggy in this one, and Rue McClanahan plays the estranged wife.

 

"A Fine Day For Dying" - Another one where the sleepies got to me. I recall the coma-girl getting shot at and not much past that. Alan Fudge always looks to me like James Olson, who was in the last episode. Loved the bit about Peggy trying to straighten Joe's desk, and reporting on his car repairs. This is another I need to go back to someday to finish - it looked good. 

 

Harry

...fighting off the sleepies a lot more these days...


My DVD Collection

A fugitive moves on, through anguished tunnels of time, down dim streets, into dark corners. And each new day offers fear and frustration, tastes of honey and hemlock. But if there is a hazard, there is also hope. - Closing narration to THE FUGITIVE, "Death Is The Door Prize".

#1831 of 2382 OFFLINE   jompaul17

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Posted July 13 2013 - 11:10 AM

Some brief comments on some end-of-season 7 episodes:

 

"Mask For A Charade" - I was so looking forward to the final Sutton Roley episode, yet I could barely manage to keep my eyes open on this one. I started it at least three times, but I don't think I managed to ever finish it. I must have seen the scene with Malcolm and the other cop visiting Claude Akins for the first time about five times. I just didn't have the wherewithal to start it yet again, so I moved on. I'll go back to it someday.

 

"A Question Of Murder" - I liked this one. Joe again comes to the aid of a kid who wants to prove that his boxing hero was murdered. The dynamics between Joe and the kid provide those extra glimpses into how the character of Joe Mannix is so masterful at dealing with all kinds of clients, the young, the old, whatever. He always knows just how to handle everyone.

 

"Trap For A Pigeon" - I think I missed this one. I must have gotten so tired of looking at that last disc that I forgot about it. Now that I realize it's the last Tobias episode, I'll have to go back and give it a look-see.

 

"The Ragged Edge" - This must be the one that caused my confusion into thinking I was moving on to S8. I'd watched this one a long time ago, back when I was watching S4 or 5, I wanted a look at the future of Joe Mannix, so I skipped ahead to the last episode of the last season released at that point. I'm sure my comments are somewhere back in this thread. I recall it was an excellent episode with acting kudos to Mike Connors.

 

Comments on early S8 episodes this far:

 

"Portrait In Blues" - It was fun seeing Larry Storch in something other than F-Troop. Stanley Adams who played Cyrano Jones in the famous tribbles episode of STAR TREK reprises the Alby character. The musician angle had been used before but is always a welcome diversion for me. I love how Joe always manages to just go right into studios while people are filming/recording. I don't think it's that easy in real life, but then again, Joe knows a lot of people.

 

"Game Plan" - James Olson guests. He had starred in one of my favorite early 70's movies, THE ANDROMEDA STRAIN. Here he plays the father of a kidnapped girl who happens to be Joe's goddaughter. Joe gets to drive a dune buggy in this one, and Rue McClanahan plays the estranged wife.

 

"A Fine Day For Dying" - Another one where the sleepies got to me. I recall the coma-girl getting shot at and not much past that. Alan Fudge always looks to me like James Olson, who was in the last episode. Loved the bit about Peggy trying to straighten Joe's desk, and reporting on his car repairs. This is another I need to go back to someday to finish - it looked good. 

 

Harry

...fighting off the sleepies a lot more these days...

Harry,

 

OK, a lot of posting today, and so a lot of cleaning out of the browser history...

 

None of these episodes come up to the level, for me, of a "Walk on the Blind Side," which earlier today made for one of my larger posts.  But they all bear some discussion -- they all, at the very minimum, still have their "Mannix moments."

 

"Mask For A Charade" - No question, this is the least of the Sutton Roley directed episodes. But, you have to admit that the story was ahead of its time. A cop was put in a bad position because he wife got Alzheimer's and he could not pay for the care he felt she deserved.  And Joe, true to form, was initially suckered, only to eventually discover the truth. In a series that tackled everything from gambling addition to drug abuse to race relations, it should be no surprise that it took on the dilemma of what to do with someone who gets Alzheimer's -- being faced with a kind of similar situation (and yet highly unique in its own right), but from the perspective of a child instead of a spouse and for a span of over four decades, I know how something like that can tear you apart.  But, something about the episode feels somehow off.  Honestly, I think it is because Claude Akins was wrong for the part.  They were trying to go for the tough guy with a tender side scenario, but you never did quite develop enough sympathy for Akins. And so it winds up being a good story and good director wasted.  But, that happens a lot even in the movies, and it is surprising it does not happen in a series like Mannix more.  Having said that, Sutton Roley did leave us with his characteristic some anger -- he, more than any other director, seemed to want the actors to play angry.  Notice the scene where Art Malcolm bursts into Joe's office, blowing past Peggy, yells at Joe, and storms out.  That's not Art being Jack Webb -- Art, here, is very unlike your earlier impression of him.  Roley liked people playing angry in virtually all of his episodes -- and that scene saves the entire episode. Joe had his moment being angry too, at Aiken's house, when the dog is barking. If you like Roley, get all angry and yell at someone today. :)

 

"A Question Of Murder" - Yes, that is one episode I thought you might like. It has a great opening sequence at the Paseo (but note how the green 'cuda is there, since they used footage taped for (but never quite used in) s6's "Carol Lockwood, Past Tense," even to the point of putting Peggy in the same outfit, but, alas there was nothing they could to about the car.  Even the old license plate came back, suggesting Joe had a garage somewhere and kept his previous vehicles.  But, the scenes with Joe struggling with what to do about the kid are great.  Joe is, after all, a Knight, he helps all who need help, who deserve help.  When you have that kind of relationship with people, that kind of mission, you get along with more people.  I also love the small scene where Joe goes to call Art Malcolm and Peggy repeats to Joe what the kid told her, "You're OK, you know that."  Now, there's just a line on a piece of paper, a line that could be delivered with virtually infinite nuance.  If it is off, even just a little, it looks stupid.  But, if it hits, it is wonderful.  And it hits.

 

"Trap For A Pigeon" - This is actually quite a good episode -- and so I'll wait for your comments on it. 

 

"The Ragged Edge" - I can't remember discussion of this -- I do remember you saying you took a peek at it, but don't remember you saying you watched it.  For me, the whole episode is the first part, where MC plays strung out.  Amazing.  The rest of the story structure is only OK, not up to, for example, "Death is the Fifth Gear"  which was wall to wall solid.  But, notice how Peggy is in on Joe's undercover caper this time, thus departing from her being left out of the loop in s4's "One for the Lady." 

 

"Portrait In Blues" - I found it curious that they picked this for the opening episode of s8.  I still wonder why.  And before I forget, it's curious that you noticed the bongo drums in the opening.  They represent a serious departure from the full orchestra used in seasons 1-3!  But, that theme is so robust, it seems to work with so many arrangements.  Notice how they also updated the opening -- with two new action shots in the m-a-n-n-I-x grid.  Actually, I might be repeating myself, but no two seasons have exactly the same opening -- something changes about them, even if it is the inclusion of "mannix" in gold letters between seasons 3 and 4.  The only exception would seem to be seasons 6 and 7 -- the opening on the DVDs is the same -- but that is because season 7 had no full opening!.  But, why did you have to bring that cat up again???  :blink:  Notice how this episode was about music -- and it was written by none other than Mel Torme!  He wrote three episodes of series TV (according to his IMDb page), and Mannix is the last one.  Presumably they were all written while chestnuts were roasting on an open fire.

 

"Game Plan" - This was actually an interesting story, but not way, way up there for me as a favorite.  The whole "plane flying overhead at a certain time" thing was pretty clever, and something viable in those days in an area with little air traffic. Mannix had a love affair with the airplane that seemed to continue even after Bruce Geller left.  Also, notice how they made Joe someone's Godfather -- the series never seemed to run from connections to religion, but they kept those connections artfully tasteful and were never in your face.  But, then again, that is more the way we used to be. 

 

"A Fine Day For Dying" -  This is not one of my favorite either, and when season 8 started, I was pretty concerned for awhile.  But, it gets better.  A few of the episodes to come include a mastery of what the character is all about. Now, I'm not prepared to say that they are wall to wall solid, some of them are not.  But, they have some great scenes. It's almost as if the writers, producers and actors were giving a nod to the media -- we have to fill air time, there has to be a story, and the story will be entertaining.  But, we're going to make it worth your while for having invested in this character because character is what this series is all about. 

 

Did you also miss "Rage to a Kill?" FanCollector commented on it, about a year ago, but I don't remember your take on it.  Note the ending.



#1832 of 2382 ONLINE   Harry-N

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Posted July 13 2013 - 02:01 PM

 

Did you also miss "Rage to a Kill?" FanCollector commented on it, about a year ago, but I don't remember your take on it.  Note the ending.

 

It must have been another victim of the sleepies I'm afraid. I do recall the beginning; I remember Ramon Bieri, and the psychiatrist angle. I remember the music recording studio, but I cannot recall the ending.

 

Harry


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A fugitive moves on, through anguished tunnels of time, down dim streets, into dark corners. And each new day offers fear and frustration, tastes of honey and hemlock. But if there is a hazard, there is also hope. - Closing narration to THE FUGITIVE, "Death Is The Door Prize".

#1833 of 2382 ONLINE   Harry-N

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Posted July 14 2013 - 06:27 AM

 

It is one of the very few disappointments of the DVD releases that the video quality is not up to par with the others -- and there seems to be no consensus as to whether that is due to a lack of re-mastering or degradation of the master.  Either way, it is a shame.

 

 

I meant to comment on this too. While watching "Walk On The Blind Side", I did notice the increased amount of dirt in the film, leading me to think that the episode might have been mastered from a lesser-quality source.

 

[humor mode on]

The episode was so dirty that even Joe paid a visit to the cleaners!

 

vlcsnap-2013-07-14-10h22m50s27.jpg

 

And how about that jacket, huh? Ahhh, the 70s. :) [/humor mode off]

 

Actually it was no where near as bad as "The Deady Madonna" and I'm on record as saying THAT wasn't too bad. CBS/Paramount at least went the extra mile to present decent, playable, color-corrected versions of these episodes, and not some dismal syndication print. (Yes, I realize that this episode was never syndicated.)

 

So in reality, what I'm trying to say is that if this episode is of lesser video quality than most, then it's only slightly lesser in quality. Not a big deal - but I did want to comment on it.

 

Harry


Edited by Harry-N, July 14 2013 - 06:28 AM.

My DVD Collection

A fugitive moves on, through anguished tunnels of time, down dim streets, into dark corners. And each new day offers fear and frustration, tastes of honey and hemlock. But if there is a hazard, there is also hope. - Closing narration to THE FUGITIVE, "Death Is The Door Prize".

#1834 of 2382 OFFLINE   jompaul17

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Posted July 14 2013 - 10:11 AM

It must have been another victim of the sleepies I'm afraid. I do recall the beginning; I remember Ramon Bieri, and the psychiatrist angle. I remember the music recording studio, but I cannot recall the ending.

 

Harry

Harry,

 

MC does a nice job in the ending, capturing, in a completely non-verbal way, his feelings when gazing upon the kid.

 

In microcosm, that is the beauty of Mannix -- all sorts of non-verbal conveyance of emotion.  Both MC and GF were tremendous at doing that in all sorts of situations when it was not supposed to even be the point of plot-driven story -- together, they were in a category by themselves. 

 

Back to the "sleepies," which, as I recall, was something you said in our very earliest exchanges, there is no question that Mannix has that kind of comfort.  Now that I am, shall we say, somewhat familiar with all of the episodes, I find that I can put on an episode of Mannix and find it relaxing, calming -- and it really does help me sleep. 

 

There is a reason for this paradox -- that a show that is seemingly about violence is calming. 

 

The presence of certain kinds of heroes among us, as a part of our story, is incredibly calming -- and lets us know that no matter what happens to us, the hero in us can respond as well.  That's comforting as well.



#1835 of 2382 OFFLINE   jompaul17

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Posted July 14 2013 - 10:33 AM

I meant to comment on this too. While watching "Walk On The Blind Side", I did notice the increased amount of dirt in the film, leading me to think that the episode might have been mastered from a lesser-quality source.

 

[humor mode on]

The episode was so dirty that even Joe paid a visit to the cleaners!

 

Posted Imagevlcsnap-2013-07-14-10h22m50s27.jpg

 

And how about that jacket, huh? Ahhh, the 70s. :) [/humor mode off]

 

Actually it was no where near as bad as "The Deady Madonna" and I'm on record as saying THAT wasn't too bad. CBS/Paramount at least went the extra mile to present decent, playable, color-corrected versions of these episodes, and not some dismal syndication print. (Yes, I realize that this episode was never syndicated.)

 

So in reality, what I'm trying to say is that if this episode is of lesser video quality than most, then it's only slightly lesser in quality. Not a big deal - but I did want to comment on it.

 

Harry

Harry,

 

That is WAY, WAY up there as one of my all-time favorite Mannix jackets!!! Oh, I love it -- it first appeared in "Walk a Double Line" (from s7) and, in addition to figuring prominently in this episode, also figures prominently in s8's "The Survivor Who Wasn't" -- which is an episode that includes some great scenes that particular drive home the character of Joe Mannix.  That episode, perhaps not coincidentally, was written by Ben Roberts. 

 

That, and the brown jacket with the flaps and band in the back (which figured heavily in seasons 4 and 5, only to disappear and then make a re-appearance in season 8, after presumably requiring two years worth of repair due to bullet holes and other scrapes) are a couple of the definitive Mannix jackets. 

 

I agree with you about the restoration of these two episodes.

 

When I saw "The Deadly Madonna" I had hoped that was the only affected episode (other than a part of "Figures in a Landscape" which seemed to have gone bad). I could have easily lived with that.   And so, to see that "Walk on the Blind Side" was also affected, well, it did hurt, because I love that episode so much and wanted to see those scenes that were committed to my memory as clearly as possible. 

 

But, even these 2.5 affected episodes are better than the horror stories I read about regarding other series. 

 

All in all, these eight seasons worth of Mannix still, to this day, feel like an incredible gift to have back again.   Those restored episodes have restored me. And, for a lot of reasons, I don't expect that feeling to wear off any time soon, and probably never.

 

Also, I found out more about the Amazon reviewer who said there was a deleted scene from "Silent Target."  I've now seen his argument, and, for a collection of reasons not worth going into, in my opinion, it simply does not hold water. But, he is clearly a Mannix fan, and so there is no reason to dump on  his passion.

 

Mannix, unlike so many other series of its day, assumed passion was a good thing. Mike Connors, Gail Fisher, Sutton Roley, and presumably Ivan Goff and Ben Roberts all understood this -- and gave that to us, right in a classic hero motif.

 

Oh and, notice how Joe starts to say "hell" in season 8.  He got close, in season 6's "A Matter of Principle" where he says the bomb planted was designed to make "a helluva..." before he corrects himself in front of the shocked old ladies. Then, the whole hell thing disappears -- but he says it several times in season 8, including in his office, to Art, in "A Walk on the Blind Side." 



#1836 of 2382 ONLINE   Harry-N

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Posted July 17 2013 - 04:08 AM

I managed to watch "The Green Men" over a couple of viewing sessions (Where does the time go?) and liked the storyline about counterfeiting. Some good guest stars here too, with Elisha Cook, Scatman Crothers, Scott Marlowe, and Russell Johnson providing the familiar faces. The Scatman is always a treat.

 

Harry


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A fugitive moves on, through anguished tunnels of time, down dim streets, into dark corners. And each new day offers fear and frustration, tastes of honey and hemlock. But if there is a hazard, there is also hope. - Closing narration to THE FUGITIVE, "Death Is The Door Prize".

#1837 of 2382 OFFLINE   jompaul17

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Posted July 17 2013 - 09:32 AM

I managed to watch "The Green Men" over a couple of viewing sessions (Where does the time go?) and liked the storyline about counterfeiting. Some good guest stars here too, with Elisha Cook, Scatman Crothers, Scott Marlowe, and Russell Johnson providing the familiar faces. The Scatman is always a treat.

 

Harry

Harry,

 

Not too much to add about "The Green Men" -- it seemed, to me, to be a solid enough episode. Notice how the one scene with Joe in the alley (fighting the guy who left the bar) wound up in the opening.  Notice also how they filmed some scenes in a glider, at the end. I used to think Bruce Geller was responsible for all of the flying in Mannix, but, after he supposedly left the show, sometime around the beginning of season 4 (due to a budgetary dispute about Mission: Impossible), the flying stayed in there. I have to think that wasn't cheap.  And, notice how the flying was just there, just integrated with the episode in a seamless way -- it wasn't all about flying. And yet, they spent quite a few bucks filming it anyway -- so cool.

 

Also, if memory serves, this episode also has the scene where Joe discovers the "cheesebox" on the phone. Changes in technology make this interesting -- but there is also something else.  When Joe discovers this he says it is illegal.  And, when he leaves his office, after putting some small tools in his pocket, Peggy says something to the effect that, "Why do I have the feeling what you're about to do is illegal as well."  And Joe sort of waves his hand in reply.

 

Joseph Campbell says there are three phases to a good life, roughly, (1) learn the rules, (2) follow the rules, (3) use the rules. His point is that we first have to find a way to both survive and fit into society, first contributing in a widely accepted way.  So, we first have to learn the rules in order to do that, then we do it, supposedly earning acceptance and possibly some money.  But, after awhile, those things should not be enough -- for true adults anyway.   True adults are true individuals -- and that means deciding for oneself what is right, being a mere follower and seeking conventional forms of success no longer satisfies a true adult.  Of course, some people grow up earlier than others. Still other people never really grow up.  But, heroes facilitate this process -- and, the whole point of writing here is that some heroes do that better than others. For one thing, using the rules places a person in peril and so often in a position to be completely alone, except for their heroes.

 

The Baby Boomers are the era of the "gifted child" -- the goal is to be a person society values, a kind of perpetual adolescence.  Other eras had heroes who understood that being "valued" by society was as much a curse as a "blessing." They prized thinking for themselves more than we do now, on the whole.  And their heroes reflected this.

 

On an unrelated note, did you watch "Trap for a pigeon" yet?



#1838 of 2382 ONLINE   Harry-N

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Posted July 22 2013 - 01:06 PM

Today's episode was "Death Has No Face" (8.06) and I decided to do something a little different. Since my new 60" TV is capable of 3-D, it has a setting for simulated 3-D, which will take any image and render some depth when viewed with the included passive 3-D glasses. I'm not usually one for such gimmicks - and did not set out to buy a 3-D TV. It just came with that feature. From what I've read, many 3-D TVs are actually exceptionally good 2-D TVs.

 

In looking over the description of the episode beforehand, I thought it might make a decent test for watching something in fake 3-D, since there would probably be a lot of outdoor location shots, and I was right. And we actually got a good start to the episode with some scenes of Joe's booby-trapped office. Early on, I could see that the TV was showing me that Joe's desk telephone was in the foreground and his Colonel Sanders bucket lamp was farther away. The explosion sequence was nicely rendered in this simulated 3-D too.

 

Once we get on the road, we can see the rolling hills of the town area's topography. As Joe drives up and down, we can peek over hills at vistas beyond. It was kind of neat. The interior sets of the town, the diner, the police station, the ranch, the hotel, were all interesting to look at with this 3-D effect on. Since it's not true 3-D, occasionally things looked a little odd. Like hair. Ever now and again, a head would be in close-up, and you'd get the sense that hair protruding from above the forehead was sticking out way farther than it should have been. A few noses looked a little closer too, as did some of the ladies' "figures".

 

The episode was a mishmash of prior MANNIX scenarios: the mysterious crazed person after Joe, the small town with a secret, Joe being set up, and Joe as fugitive. And there was room for some car stunts and even some Peggy scenes - an oddity when Joe's out of town.

 

Strangely, I notice that two episodes hence is something called "Enter Tami Okada", which turns out to be the only MANNIX that had any real 3-D photography - for the Viewmaster people. The way these worked is that the producers would give an OK to the Viewmaster people, who'd bring their stereoscopic cameras to the set, and while scenes were being blocked/rehearsed with the actors, they'd take their shots. That accounts for the fact that in most cases, a Viewmaster shot of a scene is slightly different from the one that's televised. Either an angle is slightly different, or an actor is in a slightly different position. 

 

I don't own the MANNIX set - or any reels. I see one on eBay at the moment:

 

Viewmaster.JPG

 

I have a viewer that I bought when after 30-odd years of waiting, I finally obtained the Viewmaster set for THE TIME TUNNEL.

 

Anyone reading this thread with the MANNIX Viewmaster reels or set?

 

Harry


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A fugitive moves on, through anguished tunnels of time, down dim streets, into dark corners. And each new day offers fear and frustration, tastes of honey and hemlock. But if there is a hazard, there is also hope. - Closing narration to THE FUGITIVE, "Death Is The Door Prize".

#1839 of 2382 OFFLINE   jompaul17

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Posted July 24 2013 - 08:12 AM

Today's episode was "Death Has No Face" (8.06) and I decided to do something a little different. Since my new 60" TV is capable of 3-D, it has a setting for simulated 3-D, which will take any image and render some depth when viewed with the included passive 3-D glasses. I'm not usually one for such gimmicks - and did not set out to buy a 3-D TV. It just came with that feature. From what I've read, many 3-D TVs are actually exceptionally good 2-D TVs.

 

In looking over the description of the episode beforehand, I thought it might make a decent test for watching something in fake 3-D, since there would probably be a lot of outdoor location shots, and I was right. And we actually got a good start to the episode with some scenes of Joe's booby-trapped office. Early on, I could see that the TV was showing me that Joe's desk telephone was in the foreground and his Colonel Sanders bucket lamp was farther away. The explosion sequence was nicely rendered in this simulated 3-D too.

 

Once we get on the road, we can see the rolling hills of the town area's topography. As Joe drives up and down, we can peek over hills at vistas beyond. It was kind of neat. The interior sets of the town, the diner, the police station, the ranch, the hotel, were all interesting to look at with this 3-D effect on. Since it's not true 3-D, occasionally things looked a little odd. Like hair. Ever now and again, a head would be in close-up, and you'd get the sense that hair protruding from above the forehead was sticking out way farther than it should have been. A few noses looked a little closer too, as did some of the ladies' "figures".

 

The episode was a mishmash of prior MANNIX scenarios: the mysterious crazed person after Joe, the small town with a secret, Joe being set up, and Joe as fugitive. And there was room for some car stunts and even some Peggy scenes - an oddity when Joe's out of town.

 

Strangely, I notice that two episodes hence is something called "Enter Tami Okada", which turns out to be the only MANNIX that had any real 3-D photography - for the Viewmaster people. The way these worked is that the producers would give an OK to the Viewmaster people, who'd bring their stereoscopic cameras to the set, and while scenes were being blocked/rehearsed with the actors, they'd take their shots. That accounts for the fact that in most cases, a Viewmaster shot of a scene is slightly different from the one that's televised. Either an angle is slightly different, or an actor is in a slightly different position. 

 

I don't own the MANNIX set - or any reels. I see one on eBay at the moment:

 

Posted ImageViewmaster.JPG

 

I have a viewer that I bought when after 30-odd years of waiting, I finally obtained the Viewmaster set for THE TIME TUNNEL.

 

Anyone reading this thread with the MANNIX Viewmaster reels or set?

 

Harry

Harry,

 

I'm still trying to contemplate Mannix in 60" 3D...

 

Putting jealousy aside, I'm not sure I even have room for a 60" TV -- and have resisted 3D until now, although I admit I did not know there was such a thing as simulated 3D.   I'd be interested in how it holds up for other episodes.

 

I'm one of those people who thinks 3D will not last.  At the risk of not being forward-looking, some technologies do, indeed, amount to flashes in the pan -- and 3D is not new technology by any means, just new for TV sets. It never did stick in the movies. Now, sports could be the game changer for TV, but that remains to be seen.

 

I do wonder though, how the presence of 3D might have changed the filming of a TV show such as Mannix.  Would there have been more emphasis on action, and less time spent on close-ups of faces? Mannix was a great mix of those two, an unusual mix of those two, actually.  How would Sutton Roley's subtle framing of shots have been affected?

 

On the other hand, Mannix is a show that definitely benefitted from being in color. It used its locations well, and the brightness of color (if memory serves, the sets had to be lit with brighter light) helps the faces.   Mannix is not a show about darkness -- it is a show about overcoming darkness by being engaged. Towards that end, it takes film noir and other dark stories to the next level -- the white knight as hero who consistently overcomes the darkness of the forest. And, it just worked so well.  It's curious to think how technology can affect story.

 

For some odd reason, I never really knew before that those Viewmasters were 3D pictures -- it makes sense, but, never having had one, I simply assumed they were just ordinary stills. You are going to make me want to get that Mannix set, which I have seen on eBay before, but kept avoiding...

 

Not only "Death Has No Face" but quite a few episodes of season 8 use that "mishmash" of previously separate Mannix entities.  That comes across so strongly in the season that I seem to recall even posting it here before, a long time ago, well before season 8 was released. I'm not sure why they did that. But, a few episodes would start out in Joe's office, and have some strong scenes there, only to wind up with Joe alone in a small town.   I once read where the original plans were for Mannix to "hit the road" a lot in season 8 -- to include having Joe visit other countries, even Australia.  They must have decided otherwise, but used the existing scripts anyway, so that Joe wound up going to a combination of unknown places as well as some not too exotic places like Albuquerque and San Francisco.  

 

But, they needed to keep Joe the LA-based PI (thankfully!) so they included some scenes with Peggy, up-front. 

 

Now, not all episodes are like this, and, actually, there are some pretty great (in my opinion) more traditional LA-based episodes in season 8 -- a few are actually among the best in the series, again, in my opinion. But, those that have this "opening in the Paseo only to see Joe hit the road" are pretty much all in seasons 7 and 8.

 

The series kept trying things, really exploring the whole white knight theme where trouble comes to him and he encounters trouble, along the way. The unifying theme -- he never runs from trouble.  Instead, he seeks to engage, as an individual -- a huge, huge thing.

 

The first part of "Death Has No Face" has some pretty great lines in there. I love the line where Joe compares the life of a PI to a towel in a public washroom -- something that seems like a throw-away line (but not a throw-away towel!), but is really one great line that drives home what the character is all about.

 

How many people, these days, would identify their lives that way -- even be, well, sort of proud their lives can be described that way, as if they chose to be that way on purpose?

 

Such a pity we do not see that as noble anymore -- such a pity.

 

How great are such mythical heroes.


Edited by jompaul17, July 24 2013 - 08:29 AM.


#1840 of 2382 ONLINE   Harry-N

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Posted July 24 2013 - 01:31 PM

I'm still trying to contemplate Mannix in 60" 3D... Putting jealousy aside, I'm not sure I even have room for a 60" TV -- and have resisted 3D until now, although I admit I did not know there was such a thing as simulated 3D.   I'd be interested in how it holds up for other episodes.

If it makes you feel any better, we only increased the size of the TV by 5". We had a 55" before this. 

I'm one of those people who thinks 3D will not last.  At the risk of not being forward-looking, some technologies do, indeed, amount to flashes in the pan -- and 3D is not new technology by any means, just new for TV sets. It never did stick in the movies. Now, sports could be the game changer for TV, but that remains to be seen.

I'm in the same camp. I didn't intend to buy a 3-D TV - it was just the best one in the right size and price range and just happens to include 3-D. Since the 3-D "fad" returned to theaters with the popularity of the AVATAR film, we've only gone to see one film in 3-D. It was a promotional deal at an IMAX theater up in Pennsylvania when Disney's A CHRISTMAS CAROL premiered. My wife got her usual headache, and we both felt that the 3-D was gimmicky and unnecessary.Having the ability to casually look at something on one's home TV makes the prospect just a little more enticing, but I assure you I won't be going out of my way to get much in the way of 3-D movies or software. It's just not for me. One or two, as a trial, maybe - but that's about it. 

I do wonder though, how the presence of 3D might have changed the filming of a TV show such as Mannix.  Would there have been more emphasis on action, and less time spent on close-ups of faces? Mannix was a great mix of those two, an unusual mix of those two, actually.  How would Sutton Roley's subtle framing of shots have been affected?  On the other hand, Mannix is a show that definitely benefitted from being in color.

I'm fairly certain that a 3-D gimmick would have altered the filming of any show, certainly initially, just as it did with color. After a time, if 3-D had become the norm, the gimmicks would have subsided in most cases.I'm a person who loves and appreciates good black & white, but whenever I attempt to remove the color from MANNIX, it just looks wrong. It definitely used color properly within the bounds of its storytelling. I think I did mention one show a few seasons ago that was very film-noirish and might have looked cool in black & white. Can't recall which episode without digging through the thread.I do hope that someone with the MANNIX Viewmaster set will chime in here with some info about it. As far as I know, all Viewmaster reels were 3-D. That was their reason for being (though the company did manufacture Viewmaster projectors that were of course 2-D, using just one half of the images on a reel).Harry


Edited by Harry-N, July 24 2013 - 02:29 PM.

My DVD Collection

A fugitive moves on, through anguished tunnels of time, down dim streets, into dark corners. And each new day offers fear and frustration, tastes of honey and hemlock. But if there is a hazard, there is also hope. - Closing narration to THE FUGITIVE, "Death Is The Door Prize".





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