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Disney - No Pirates or Cars on Blu-Ray in 2006


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#21 of 73 OFFLINE   Jerome Grate

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Posted August 10 2006 - 03:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
These are not Sony titles, but Disney ones.
Understood, guess I was ranting on the whole BD thing on how really bad it is out of the gate. Adding this problem with Disney in not releasing premium titles that would probably give BD a good push when it really needs one. Guess you can't blame them for holding back but if Disney or any other studio is not ready to jump on the HD-DVD bandwagon and produce discs for both formats, then you would think that they will pull out all the stops on their releases. Flip coin of that I guess is if Sony hasn't given their all, why submit material on a format somewhat sub-standard to the rival format. An unfortunate turn of events for BD.
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#22 of 73 OFFLINE   Miles

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Posted August 10 2006 - 04:17 AM

But, has Warner also said that they won't be releasing HP, BB, Superman on Blu-ray? They're already release some HD-DVD titles to Blu-ray...

Does Warner have a stake in the success of HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray? Or are they just out to sell the most high-def discs they can to make the $?

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#23 of 73 OFFLINE   Tim Glover

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Posted August 10 2006 - 06:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
I find most of the quotes from studio executives involved in this format war dubious at best. The real allegiance they have is to increase profits by selling more software. If and when, one of those formats exhibit a sustained advantage over the other in that regard, you will have studios jumping off one wagon and hitching a ride on the other.

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Double Amen Robert. Well said Posted Image

#24 of 73 OFFLINE   Sean Bryan

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Posted August 10 2006 - 07:59 AM

Quote:
...rewriting the spec would invalidate all of the PS3's. Tosh would only burn a few thousand people, people used to doing the early adopter thing.

Just to clarify, the consensus out there right now (based on info directly from NEC and Microsoft) is that the current NEC produced HD DVD drives in the players out there CAN read triple layer discs NOW.

If the specs were changed to put in TL45 ROM, all that should be required is a firmware upgrade.

So actually no one would be burned at all (unless this happens at a much later time when there are players out there based on different drives which for some reason may lack the capability of reading triple layer that the current drives have).
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#25 of 73 OFFLINE   Sean Bryan

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Posted August 10 2006 - 08:16 AM

Quote:
Common sense says BD should change the Mpeg 2 compression chip to Mpeg4.

Just to clarify, all BD players including the one currently available can play discs encoded in Mpeg 2, Mpeg4 (AVC), and VC-1. The codec used on any particular BD (or HD DVD) is entirely a choice of the studio releasing it. The exception, of course, is the fact that Sony had to author all initial BDs, and they did not initially have the ability to offer VC-1 or AVC encoding. But they are available now and are being used (at least we know that WB is currently encoding BDs using VC-1).
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#26 of 73 OFFLINE   Gekkou

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Posted August 10 2006 - 08:22 AM

Quote:
I'm sure alot of studios were "BR Only!" when it looked like PS3 would sell massive units and generate a tremedous installed base in a very short amount of time. Now that PS3's starting to look like the underdog, Studios may be starting to reconsider their stance on the HD market.
If you don't think the PS3 will sell out on day one, then you just aren't familiar with the game market. I also don't know what you mean by it being the underdog, it is one heck of a powerful system.

As for the original topic, this is indeed disappointing. Do we know if the first Pirates movie will make an appearance any time soon?

#27 of 73 OFFLINE   Sean Bryan

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Posted August 10 2006 - 08:31 AM

This is not great news for BD.

In one of those interviews with a BD executive (was it Andy Parsons?) that made it's way around here recently, when asked why consumers should pay $500 more for BD he said something along the lines of "well, if you want Fox and Disney movies they are only on BD".

I couldn't help thinking that at this early stage, the only significant relevance of studio exclusivity to consumer purchasing decisions is when these studios release big, popular titles to one format only. If a studio is exclusive, but they hold back on releasing big titles because they want a larger established base of players before they put these out, then the exclusiveness of the studio means MUCH less (if anything) to people who are looking at what titles are available for each format.

Then I read this and felt all smart and stuff. Posted Image

PS: This goes for HD DVD too. Universal HAS to get out big titles in order for their exclusivity to mean much. But they have put out some decent stuff so far, and the "word on the street" is that King Kong IS coming out this Fall.
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#28 of 73 OFFLINE   Brent M

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Posted August 10 2006 - 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gekkou
Do we know if the first Pirates movie will make an appearance any time soon?


You certainly won't see it anytime in the year 2006.
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#29 of 73 OFFLINE   Jerome Grate

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Posted August 10 2006 - 01:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bryan
Just to clarify, all BD players including the one currently available can play discs encoded in Mpeg 2, Mpeg4 (AVC), and VC-1. The codec used on any particular BD (or HD DVD) is entirely a choice of the studio releasing it. The exception, of course, is the fact that Sony had to author all initial BDs, and they did not initially have the ability to offer VC-1 or AVC encoding. But they are available now and are being used (at least we know that WB is currently encoding BDs using VC-1).
Thanks for the clarification, very helpful. So I'm clear the compression used on the disc can be Mpeg 2, Mpeg4 and VC-1.
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#30 of 73 OFFLINE   Sean Bryan

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Posted August 10 2006 - 02:03 PM

Quote:
So I'm clear the compression used on the disc can be Mpeg 2, Mpeg4 and VC-1.

Yep.

Sony seems to stuck on Mpeg 2, though, so I'd expect their titles to keep using that for a while.

Warner Brothers seems very committed to VC-1. Their first few releases on BD had to be in Mpeg-2 because that was all that could be done at the time they were authored, but titles being authored now are using VC-1 (as per a WB compressionist).

Not sure if Lion's Gate will use Mpeg-4 (AVC) or VC-1 any time soon.

For their HD DVD releases, Paramount used AVC for one title and then switched to VC-1 for the rest. If they release these same titles on BD, it is likely that they will use the same encodings (just as WB will likely be using the same encodings they made for HD DVD on their BD releases)

I'm not sure where Fox and Disney stand on their codec preference. I think Joe Kane was recently quoted in an interview saying that he knew that Disney was going to be using VC-1.
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#31 of 73 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

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Posted August 10 2006 - 02:08 PM

This concerns me as it most likely does others here at HTF. Sony has totaly botched Blu-ray and the longer they put off VC-1 encoded discs and better titles. The worse it looks for Blu-ray, this is not to say that Toshiba has not had its share of blunders and lack luster titles as well.

Sony also needs to get dual layer discs to market, as this is also something that could hurt Blu-ray. I have also will not be buying top releases on dvd any longer. Basically because I can not afford to buy the dvd then turn around within a years time a buy it again in HD. That means I will not be buying Pirates 2 on DVD until ether it comes out in HD or both formats fail and I end up having to buy it on dvd. This is not the only title I will be holding off on till an HD version comes out.

I agree that if ether format wants people to get out and purchase players, its all about available software titles. If people see a weak selection of titles and inferior releases. Then why would someone spend $500 - $1000 on a new format? Especially when idiots like SONY are using MPEG2! I still plan on getting an HD-DVD player in September. How ever while I am saving up for a Blu-ray player I will try and keep up with title and hardware news.

If the Sony Blu-ray player ends up sucking and VC-1 titles are not where in site by November. I may have to put off buying the Blu-ray player until March or June of 07'. If Sony really messes up I may just buy NO Blu-ray player and use that money towards a new receiver so I can buy a really nice one. Sony must realize and accept that they are playing russian roulette with Blu-ray. Sony needs to get off there butts and act like a top notch company that wants to see Blu-ray be successful. Instead of acting like incompetent idiots that have no idea how to run a company. I really want Blu-ray but I feel that most people will get tired of this and ether just buy HD-DVD. Or both formats may both end up going down in flames, hard to tell what will happen at this point. Needless to say that as long as Blu-ray is using MPEG2 encoding, there will be no sale on disc and maybe no sale on Sony's player!
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#32 of 73 OFFLINE   Ryan-G

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Posted August 10 2006 - 05:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gekkou
If you don't think the PS3 will sell out on day one, then you just aren't familiar with the game market. I also don't know what you mean by it being the underdog, it is one heck of a powerful system.

Sure PS3 will sell out on Day 1, because they cannot supply sufficient units to meet the Die-hard fan demand. At the yields they're getting on Cell, they aren't going to ship significant quantity for a long time.

I also doubt PS3's power, considering it's demo's at E3 were reportedly no better than Xbox 360's. It's ability is crippled by it's difficulty in programming, topped off with a ridiculous price tag. Developers are better served working on other platforms, and it's already shown as support is fairly weak already.

I also think you overestimate the penetration a $500-600 box with a tiny handfull of games is going to get. Consoles thrive on their cost, and this is over the line. If $500-600 for a game machine was justifiable to most people, they'd already be using PC's and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

PS3 will not yield much penetration, it won't be a factor in the war. PS3 isn't going to sell in large numbers until late 2007 at best, and that's only if developers stick it out on PS3. Which is doubtfull if it sells weakly in it's first 4 quarters.

This war will be won/lost by the Studios or by Universal Players. If the studios shift to HD-DVD support as well as BR, BR's going to lose all it's ground. Especially if 45 gig HD-DVD's show up. If the support is there for HD-DVD, or if 45 gig HD-DVD's show up, the next factor is cost. BR is double HD-DVD, why pay twice as much money for the same thing as the competition?

If Universal Players show up, the war moves into the backrooms and we don't have to care.

One of those two things will come to pass at this point, Uni tech is present, Studios may choose to jump ship for HD-DVD.

But PS3 won't be a deciding factor, Sony's going to have it's hands full just trying to sell PS3's. Put simply, PS3 doesn't have a single thing worth paying $500-600 dollars for, especially just a box with 1 controller and no games. With gas prices at record highs, and many people stuck with gas guzzling SUV's and Trucks, cost is becoming increasingly important to consumers, and that price won't be acceptable to many parents when the 360 is available for half that price.

The game market has no tolerance for overly-expensive boxes with a handfull of titles, regardless of what name you put on it. Not at twice the price of your nearest competitor. Especially when the majority of the titles will also ship for said competitor's system.

#33 of 73 OFFLINE   AaronSCH

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Posted August 11 2006 - 09:55 AM

I agree with all you stated Ryan-G, but I still feel that even if the PS3 had higher penetration by the end of 2006 it wouldn't be a threat. i just don't see people using a gaming device to play movies but occasionally. Toshiba still needs to convince other hardware manufacturers to get on board.

#34 of 73 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted August 11 2006 - 02:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan-G
Sure PS3 will sell out on Day 1, because they cannot supply sufficient units to meet the Die-hard fan demand. At the yields they're getting on Cell, they aren't going to ship significant quantity for a long time.

I also doubt PS3's power, considering it's demo's at E3 were reportedly no better than Xbox 360's. It's ability is crippled by it's difficulty in programming, topped off with a ridiculous price tag. Developers are better served working on other platforms, and it's already shown as support is fairly weak already.

I also think you overestimate the penetration a $500-600 box with a tiny handfull of games is going to get. Consoles thrive on their cost, and this is over the line. If $500-600 for a game machine was justifiable to most people, they'd already be using PC's and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

PS3 will not yield much penetration, it won't be a factor in the war. PS3 isn't going to sell in large numbers until late 2007 at best, and that's only if developers stick it out on PS3. Which is doubtfull if it sells weakly in it's first 4 quarters.

This war will be won/lost by the Studios or by Universal Players. If the studios shift to HD-DVD support as well as BR, BR's going to lose all it's ground. Especially if 45 gig HD-DVD's show up. If the support is there for HD-DVD, or if 45 gig HD-DVD's show up, the next factor is cost. BR is double HD-DVD, why pay twice as much money for the same thing as the competition?

If Universal Players show up, the war moves into the backrooms and we don't have to care.

One of those two things will come to pass at this point, Uni tech is present, Studios may choose to jump ship for HD-DVD.
But PS3 won't be a deciding factor, Sony's going to have it's hands full just trying to sell PS3's. Put simply, PS3 doesn't have a single thing worth paying $500-600 dollars for, especially just a box with 1 controller and no games. With gas prices at record highs, and many people stuck with gas guzzling SUV's and Trucks, cost is becoming increasingly important to consumers, and that price won't be acceptable to many parents when the 360 is available for half that price.

Honestly, what does the price of gas have to do with whether someone purchases a game system or not? Yeah, I can just see it now......."I sure would like to buy a PS3 but, goddamn, I can barely fill the tank on my SUV". The whole notion is ridiculous. People are not going to be worrying about whether they will be able to fill their vehicles when making a decision to buy a non-essential consumer item.....whether it is an XBOX360 or a PS3. In fact, I would hazard to guess that if they are going to be worrying about where the money is coming from to fill their tank then they are unlikely to purchase any gaming system regardless of how cheap it is.
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#35 of 73 OFFLINE   Chris Will

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Posted August 12 2006 - 07:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
The titles that are out right now, if you consider as part of a
studios huge catalog, are pretty lame. For anyone considering
either format, there isn't much here right now to get excited about...
As a HD-DVD owner, I agree with you on this point. Out of the 7 HD-DVDs I own, I was only really excited about one of them (which was Apollo 13).

#36 of 73 OFFLINE   Terri Chu

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Posted August 14 2006 - 03:32 AM

I have to disagree, Aeon Flux, Van Helsing, Swordfish, Ray, Phantom of the Opera, even the so-called "botched transfer" Tomb Raider are still leaps and bounds than the SD DVD counterpart. Even my pre-teen daughter can see and hear the difference.

Regardless, I hope this news open up the possibility of Disney titles on HD DVD, because so far, BD is falling far far behind HD DVD.

#37 of 73 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

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Posted August 14 2006 - 04:55 AM

I really hope Disney changes there minds and offers titles in HD especially both Pirates movies. I just do not want to see them released on MPEG2 encoded Blu-ray's. I currently own 7 HD-DVD titles and will have the player in my HT in less than 3 weeks. Am going to go down today and put a player on layaway so when one comes in it will be put aside for me. And I agree with the assesment that Blu-ray is falling behind. Even with no telivision adds Toshiba is gaining steam and slowing leaving Blu-ray in the dust. Who is to blame for this happening? Sony, they botched the roll out of Blu-ray, not that Toshiba didn't do that as well. But they released inferior MPEG2 encoded discs, a weak Samsung player and there is still no dual layer Blu-ray discs to be seen! At first I was only going to back Blu-ray and would not buy HD-DVD at all. Since giving HD-DVD a chance a going in with an open mind I have since changed my mind. And with Sony scewing the pouch with no dual layer discs and the mpeg2 issue. I am now buying my HD-DVD player first and am waiting to see if I even buy a Blu-ray player in December? If I buy the player I might just wait for VC-1 discs to be available and dual layer discs as well. Sony has failed to many other times before with there formats. Let us not forget Beta and SACD!

If Disney puts out good solid transfers in HD I will buy them. It does not matter at this point if its HD-DVD or Blu-ray. If they put out VC-1 encoded Blu-ray discs then I will buy them instead of HD-DVD.
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#38 of 73 OFFLINE   Sean Bryan

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Posted August 14 2006 - 11:00 AM

Quote:
I have to disagree, Aeon Flux, Van Helsing, Swordfish, Ray, Phantom of the Opera, even the so-called "botched transfer" Tomb Raider are still leaps and bounds than the SD DVD counterpart. Even my pre-teen daughter can see and hear the difference.

Just to clarify, no one is complaining about the A/V quality of HD DVD. Those above who said there isn't much great stuff on HD DVD right now are referring to the quality of the movies, not the quality of the video/audio (which the VAST majority of early adopters agree is fantastic).

It's just that many are frustrated that there still aren't many "good movies" released yet. Of course, that is all subject to opinion.
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#39 of 73 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted August 14 2006 - 08:08 PM

Sean, that is correct.

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#40 of 73 OFFLINE   Gekkou

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Posted August 15 2006 - 04:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan-G
Sure PS3 will sell out on Day 1, because they cannot supply sufficient units to meet the Die-hard fan demand. At the yields they're getting on Cell, they aren't going to ship significant quantity for a long time.

I also doubt PS3's power, considering it's demo's at E3 were reportedly no better than Xbox 360's. It's ability is crippled by it's difficulty in programming, topped off with a ridiculous price tag. Developers are better served working on other platforms, and it's already shown as support is fairly weak already.

I also think you overestimate the penetration a $500-600 box with a tiny handfull of games is going to get. Consoles thrive on their cost, and this is over the line. If $500-600 for a game machine was justifiable to most people, they'd already be using PC's and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

PS3 will not yield much penetration, it won't be a factor in the war. PS3 isn't going to sell in large numbers until late 2007 at best, and that's only if developers stick it out on PS3. Which is doubtfull if it sells weakly in it's first 4 quarters.

This war will be won/lost by the Studios or by Universal Players. If the studios shift to HD-DVD support as well as BR, BR's going to lose all it's ground. Especially if 45 gig HD-DVD's show up. If the support is there for HD-DVD, or if 45 gig HD-DVD's show up, the next factor is cost. BR is double HD-DVD, why pay twice as much money for the same thing as the competition?

If Universal Players show up, the war moves into the backrooms and we don't have to care.

One of those two things will come to pass at this point, Uni tech is present, Studios may choose to jump ship for HD-DVD.

But PS3 won't be a deciding factor, Sony's going to have it's hands full just trying to sell PS3's. Put simply, PS3 doesn't have a single thing worth paying $500-600 dollars for, especially just a box with 1 controller and no games. With gas prices at record highs, and many people stuck with gas guzzling SUV's and Trucks, cost is becoming increasingly important to consumers, and that price won't be acceptable to many parents when the 360 is available for half that price.

The game market has no tolerance for overly-expensive boxes with a handfull of titles, regardless of what name you put on it. Not at twice the price of your nearest competitor. Especially when the majority of the titles will also ship for said competitor's system.
Well being something of a video game afficionado I have to say that you are misinformed on some points. There are currently around 200 games in the works for the system already, more developers are going from Xbox to PlayStation (or both) than PlayStation to Xbox. They are not leaving the platform in droves the way sites like The Enquirer or Kotaku or Joystiq would have you believe.

As for it being difficult to program for, developers agree that it is easier to program for than the PlayStation 2 was, and that was a nightmare to code for. If you doubt its graphical prowess, I refer you to Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots, which has been confirmed in demonstrations to be 100% real-time, and Assassins' Creed, which is apparently in-game rendered as well.
You can see the trailers at gametrailers.com.

As for it not selling much until 2007, that's a given. As it is and has always been, consoles sell the most after they have been out for a couple of years and the price has dropped. The Xbox 360 is no exception, it is still being outsold by the PlayStation 2.

As for the amount of market penetration, I honestly don't know at this point as there are still too many variables. Keep in mind though that the PS2 has sold over 110 million units and counting, I can guarantee that more than a fair few of those buyers will follow their favourite games to the next Sony console. That's what sells Sony's consoles, exclusive game titles, and they will still have them in the upcoming generation.

As for the price difference, it isn't as clear-cut as it may seem. There is hardly any demand for the $300 Core Xbox 360 since it has no hard drive (something that was standard on the previous Xbox) and suffers from slow loading times and doesn't come with HD cables or anything to save your games to. The only version that sells is the $400 Premium model.

On a feature-for-feature basis, the $400 Xbox 360 is closest to the $500 PlayStation 3; the feature set is almost identical save for the fact that the PS3 has a Blu-ray drive. The price war is really a matter of $400 and $500, not $300 and $600, $400 and $600, or what have you. That extra hundred gets you HD movie playback and wireless controllers that don't need a $30 add-on charger (unless you feel like buying scores of AAs), free online play (as opposed to $50 per year for Xbox LIVE), and more USB ports, which is a fair trade if you ask me.


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