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22 replies to this topic

#1 of 23 OFFLINE   steve_mr

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Posted June 01 2003 - 04:23 AM

I have a budget of approx. $2,000 for amp/preamp

Anyone have recommendations:

Buy a receiver? Make and model?

or go separates? recommendations?

Thanks

#2 of 23 OFFLINE   Yogi

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Posted June 01 2003 - 05:35 AM

I would go with the Outlaw combo. Great bang for the buck. Or of you want to delay the expenses somewhat buy a good mid level 7.1 receiver from Denon, HK or Marantz and later on you could buy a separate amp and improve the sound even more.
The truth is not out there but within you.

#3 of 23 OFFLINE   Eric A

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Posted June 01 2003 - 06:03 AM

If your not opposed to used I would go to Audiogon and get a great 5-channel such as Parasound, Acurus or Rotel. The look for a Lexicon MC-1 or Rotel 1066 depending on whether you want multichannel inputs or not. Together any of these components will blow away the Outlaw combo.
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#4 of 23 OFFLINE   Mark Dickerson

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Posted June 01 2003 - 06:20 AM

For two grand or less, you can get an Outlaw combo (950 w/7100 amp), or an Adcom combo (GTP 830 w/GFA 765), either of which is better than any receiver, IMHO. I am sure there are others, but for that amount of money, buying a receiver is a waste. Receivers simply don't get that much better as you go up in price.

#5 of 23 OFFLINE   Steve_Moo

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Posted June 01 2003 - 06:29 AM

I disagree with that statement that when you go up in price on Receivers they get no better. Have you ever heard a Denon AVR-5803 or a Pioneer VSX-49TXi? They are truely great pieces of equipment and will blow away any entry or mid priced Seperate combo's. I tried the seperate route a couple month's ago and was not blown away for the money I paid. I am now back to Receivers and more then happy being back where I started.

#6 of 23 OFFLINE   Pablo Abularach

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Posted June 01 2003 - 04:00 PM

I agree with Steve,

I think the $2000 mark is still better to go with a great reciever.

Quote:
Denon AVR-5803 or a Pioneer VSX-49TXi

This two are a great suggestion if you could find them in $2000 range, but I think they are a little out of your budget.

You might want to check Marantz X200 lines which is in clearence right now do that the X300 is coming.

Check
Matantz SR9200 ot SR8200, very good receivers for the money.

#7 of 23 OFFLINE   Steve_Moo

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Posted June 01 2003 - 09:11 PM

My rec'd and you can find it in the $1500-$2000 is the Pioneer Elite VSX-47TX. If you can afford the 49TXi go with that especially if DVD-A or SACD is a big deal to you. The 49TXi has the i-link(1 cable) that links a Elite 47AXi DVD Player for DVD-A or SACD Playback. It is 1 of the only 2 Receivers that has this wonderful feature.

#8 of 23 OFFLINE   Kevin Alexander

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Posted June 02 2003 - 08:23 AM

I've owned many receivers and demoed countless mid-fi and high end models. Currently, I own the Sony DA4ES. Even though the top of the line Denon and Pioneer models are nice, they are not even a quantum leap above the Sony DA4ES. You can get a Sony DA4ES for less than $650 shipped or a Denon 5803/Pioneer 49TXi that costs 4X (minimum) the price of the Sony, and in a side by side comparison of the three, the differences will be subtle at best. Anyone honest w/ themselves will agree w/ this. The high end receiver market exists, not because it is always superior, but because there are people who will buy it. I am not bashing Denon and Pioneer, but if you want to pay more for anything, there is always a manufacturer who will gladly accomodate you.
"What does God want with a Starship?" - Captain Kirk from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.

"For the first few minutes of the film, I had accidently listened to the Dolby Digital track." - Ron Epstein (HTF)

#9 of 23 OFFLINE   Steve_Moo

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Posted June 02 2003 - 10:28 AM

You can't be serious that you think the Sony compares to the 49TX or the 5803. I'm not into spending the $2000-$3000 price tag for thos receivers but there is a big overall difference that you can hear. Especially if you are running half decent speakers. I personally can not afford $3000 but I have auditioned mid to high end receivers and there is a difference in every aspect of the receivers.

#10 of 23 OFFLINE   Kevin Alexander

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Posted June 02 2003 - 12:52 PM

I'm dead serious Steve. Why do you think that the Sony doesn't compete?...Is it because the Pioneer and Denon cost 4-5 times as much, so they must be better? The Denon and Pioneer are very nice units, but there is not a "big overall difference" in the sound of the Pioneer/Denon over the Sony receiver. A different sound or signature?...I'll give you that. Unique features?...Maybe. But not a definative, quantam leap, better sound than the Sony. I challenge anyone to do a head-to-head comparison of these three receivers and conclude that the Denon and Pioneer flagships are $2000-$2500 better than the Sony DA7ES. Face it guys, the DA4 and DA7ES receivers are hard to beat for the money.
"What does God want with a Starship?" - Captain Kirk from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.

"For the first few minutes of the film, I had accidently listened to the Dolby Digital track." - Ron Epstein (HTF)

#11 of 23 OFFLINE   Pablo Abularach

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Posted June 02 2003 - 01:06 PM

Although I dont completly disagree with you on sony being a good brand for the money. I do desagree with you in comparing both recievers and brands.

I do think the difference in price doesnt make up for the $2500, but there is a big difference in sound. Maybe in HT you cant tell that much, but in music sony is still not the best option around.

You have to remember that the value of money is different for everybody. So for me it the difference could make the $2000 difference acceptable and for you it doesnt. Thats the beauty of this hobby, there is no end to spending money and upgrading you system.

By this I dont mean to flame sony or to tell that sony arent good, but what I'm trying to say is that it has it own market and their own mission, and they are very good in meeting what they want. Although sony has come a long way with their ES line, they cant compete with 49Txi and 5803, at least this is my personal opinion.

#12 of 23 OFFLINE   Kevin Alexander

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Posted June 02 2003 - 01:40 PM

I respect everything you've said Pablo. And I agree that one will most likely get a smoother sound w/ either the Denon or Pioneer, but there are some here who've returned their Denon to get either a Sony or a Pioneer. While the Pioneer, and perhaps the Denon, may sound a bit more refined in music reproduction over the Sony, is that gain in subtle smoothness $2000-$2500 better? Some will think so, most will not - they will get a lesser model such as the Pioneer 45TX, add an outboard amp of their liking, and pocket the $1000-$1500 in savings.
"What does God want with a Starship?" - Captain Kirk from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.

"For the first few minutes of the film, I had accidently listened to the Dolby Digital track." - Ron Epstein (HTF)

#13 of 23 OFFLINE   Pablo Abularach

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Posted June 02 2003 - 02:41 PM

Kevin,

I also agree with you,

Quote:
While the Pioneer, and perhaps the Denon, may sound a bit more refined in music reproduction over the Sony, is that gain in subtle smoothness $2000-$2500 better? Some will think so, most will not


I dont think either that difference is worth $2000, but I dont have a big income that allows me to even consider this receivers as an option right now, I have audition both, but they are out of my reach for now.

I think there is a lot of ways to go in this hobby, and at the end SEPARATES are the route to go. But with $2000, I think a good receiver is better than an entry lever separete system, but that is still my opinion.

I aslo agree with you
Quote:
they will get a lesser model such as the Pioneer 45TX, add an outboard amp of their liking, and pocket the
$1000-$1500 in savings

I think is a good option, and a very good step toward separetes, but I aslo agree a good receiver could end up being the best option.

You have also to remember that in this hobby you get good systems around certain amount of money, and to get a better system you have to spend a lot and you dont get much of an improvement, by this I dont mean that spending is a waste on hobby and we should stay in entry to mid level, but getting the hi end of the hobby is very expensive and sometimes you dont get a big improvent that is worth the thousands you spend, and for some it does meet their value of invesment. But thats where every people draws their own line toward the amount spend on a HT.

And for me this statement is applicable in speakers and recievers, there are some companies that have speakers $10,000-$100,000, do you think they are worth that kind of amount, you could say yes or no. But at the end is your descition and you wallet.

And you have to remember also that there are companies that make so good products that are not worth so much in money but the can compete with upper price products, making the market have a lot of options and a lot of competition.

Nice discussing and agreeing with you,

#14 of 23 OFFLINE   Steve_Moo

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Posted June 02 2003 - 09:20 PM

I agree the 45TX is a great receiver. I have owned it, but if I could afford the 49Txi I would have went with that one because there is still a big difference between the 2. I recently purchased JVC's Flagship Receiver RX-DP10VBK for $780 shipped Brand New and have heard wonderful things about this High-End Receiver that never gets any press. So I'll let you guys know how this one sounds. Its not a $3000 Denon or Pioneer but it retailed for $2000 at 1 time and is supposely a hidden secret in the Receiver world. We'll see it arrives on Thursday.

Your Sony is a good buy I was considering try the 7ES from ECost for $949 which I thought was a steal at the price but I went with the JVC instead.

#15 of 23 OFFLINE   Kevin Alexander

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Posted June 02 2003 - 10:41 PM

I didn't know that JVC made a $2000 receiver. I'm interested to hear how it sounds.
"What does God want with a Starship?" - Captain Kirk from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.

"For the first few minutes of the film, I had accidently listened to the Dolby Digital track." - Ron Epstein (HTF)

#16 of 23 OFFLINE   Charles Gurganus

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Posted June 03 2003 - 12:02 AM

The Sony TA-E9000es is still the best affordable prepro if you can live without the 6 channel input. You can find them new for around $700-$800. Add a good 5 channel Sherbourn amp (say about $1200-1300) and I'd put that 2k combo up against anything.

If that doesn't work for you (you need the 6 channel bypass), look for a used TAE ($500), add a used TAP ($600 or so), and get a step down amp (say a Parasound 855 or eq)and you still have a 2k or less setup that can and will beat about anything for the money. JMO.

The other combo to look for would be a used Aragon Soundstage ($1200-$1400 used), a used Parasound/B&K ect amp (say around $600-$800). The Soundstage provides the 6 channel input plus TRUE analog bypass on all inputs.

I think either of these options will beat Outlaw handily.
Charles

#17 of 23 OFFLINE   Charles Gurganus

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Posted June 03 2003 - 12:08 AM

Steve, don't the Pioneer receivers I-link perform PCM conversions for SACD?

Also, what seperates did you try?
Charles

#18 of 23 OFFLINE   David S

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Posted June 03 2003 - 07:20 AM

"If your not opposed to used I would go to Audiogon and get a great 5-channel such as Parasound, Acurus or Rotel. The look for a Lexicon MC-1 or Rotel 1066 depending on whether you want multichannel inputs or not. Together any of these components will "blow away" the Outlaw combo".:b

And you've heard these combo's to arrive at such a bold conclusion? I have a 950 and Parasound 2205AT combo which I like very much, however, although I have not listened to it, I have doubts I'm "blowing away" someones 950/Outlaw combo.Posted Image

#19 of 23 OFFLINE   David S

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Posted June 03 2003 - 07:23 AM

Steve - sorry for my off topic previous off topic post. With the Outlaw 30 day return policy, I, without hesitation, would suggest this as a option. Outside of the unlikely return shipping, you can't lose.

#20 of 23 OFFLINE   Rick Faldo

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Posted June 03 2003 - 05:08 PM

Rotel 1075, and 1066 processor is tough to beat for the price. They have tested positively every where in the world. You can't go wrong with this combo and at $999 and $1499 retail, you are well within your budget.
Check it out, let your ears tell you the truth.
Rick





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